ATC use of the word 'immediate'

Fearless Tower

Fearless Tower

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Fearless Tower
I was just reading the story about the close call between the AA 777 and a flight of C-17s back in January - in the article, the reporter states that the controller directed the C-17s to make an 'immediate' right turn to avoid collision and then went on to state that according the the FAA, the use of the word 'immediate' is only authorized for use by ATC when a collision is imminent.

Anyone familiar with ATC regs care to comment on the accuracy of that statement? Reason I ask is because about 18 months ago, I was flying a Cardinal RG into MYF at night in IMC. About 5-10 seconds after the controller gives me my final vector and clears me for the approach, he comes back in an excited voice and tells me to make an 'immediate right turn' to the north - about 130 degrees. Then tells me he has a 737 heading right for me that just departed SAN and is not talking to any controller (apparently missed the handoff). I ended up doing a 360 and was re-vectored for the approach without further incident.

Never saw my story in the news, but after reading the article, I'm wondering how close to certain death I came that night.....
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Here's the official version from the Pilot/Controller Glossary:
IMMEDIATELY- Used by ATC or pilots when such action compliance is required to avoid an imminent situation.
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BTW, note the word "situation," rather than "collision." This suggests there could be imminent "situations" other than an collision which could lead ATC to use the term "immediately." I've heard it a few times, and when I do, I "immediately" move the airplane as directed before grabbing (or keying) the mike to reply.
 
I've gotten it from PNE Tower on one or two occasions when the wording was Tiger XYZ Immediate right turn out.
 
I've had plenty of "blah cleared for immediate takeoff 17 no delay"
 
Fearless Tower said:
I was just reading the story about the close call between the AA 777 and a flight of C-17s back in January - in the article, the reporter states that the controller directed the C-17s to make an 'immediate' right turn to avoid collision and then went on to state that according the the FAA, the use of the word 'immediate' is only authorized for use by ATC when a collision is imminent.

Anyone familiar with ATC regs care to comment on the accuracy of that statement? Reason I ask is because about 18 months ago, I was flying a Cardinal RG into MYF at night in IMC. About 5-10 seconds after the controller gives me my final vector and clears me for the approach, he comes back in an excited voice and tells me to make an 'immediate right turn' to the north - about 130 degrees. Then tells me he has a 737 heading right for me that just departed SAN and is not talking to any controller (apparently missed the handoff). I ended up doing a 360 and was re-vectored for the approach without further incident.

Never saw my story in the news, but after reading the article, I'm wondering how close to certain death I came that night.....
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With TCAS and other goodies hopefully not very... BUT..

If I hear it out of the blue, not with regards to a no-delay takeoff, or preplanned departure turn, I'm turning first, and it wont be a gentle one... then I will ack on the radio.
 
I was flying north to San Fran and the controller comes on in a very scared, fast and loud voice "07Y Immediate descent!" I was shoving forward for negative g's before he finished saying "descent" just as a King Air came right over the top of me (rivet counting close) in his descent. "Thanks brother, that's about as close as I ever want to get", "sorry about that", "No paint traded, no worries."
 
Henning said:
I was flying north to San Fran and the controller comes on in a very scared, fast and loud voice "07Y Immediate descent!" I was shoving forward for negative g's before he finished saying "descent" just as a King Air came right over the top of me (rivet counting close) in his descent. "Thanks brother, that's about as close as I ever want to get", "sorry about that", "No paint traded, no worries."
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Wow! I think after that, I would be looking for a spot to change my shorts haha.
 
Henning said:
I was flying north to San Fran and the controller comes on in a very scared, fast and loud voice "07Y Immediate descent!" I was shoving forward for negative g's before he finished saying "descent" just as a King Air came right over the top of me (rivet counting close) in his descent. "Thanks brother, that's about as close as I ever want to get", "sorry about that", "No paint traded, no worries."
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Often the tone of voice is what gives it away long before they get to the words "right", "left", "climb" or "descent"...

The only controllers I've ever heard that ALWAYS sound like that are at KLAS, though... those poor guys need a little less caffeine in their coffee.

I was switched to them quite a ways out by Center and felt my shoulders headed for my ears (my reaction to tensing up) just listening to them from many miles away. I had been cleared to descend through the Bravo by Center (hmm, that was interesting!) and even confirmed it on call-up (even I didn't believe it, thanks Center controller for being nice and calling on the intercom line!)... coming from the East, into KHND.

The KLAS TRACON controller popped up with that fast but not scared voice and tried to descend me lower than I was comfortable with at NIGHT into that ridgeline to the East of KHND.

I wasn't having it... "Unable, will advise when we can continue the descent, we can't see the city lights past the ridgeline yet."

In that 100-MPH exasperated voice the controller proceeds to tell me that he has an opposite direction 737 12 o'clock and 7 miles.

Recall that it's night... and that 737 is lit up like a freakin' football stadium... he's slowing to land, and he's about to accept a vector to land northbound at KLAS... and I have been watching the 73 since it was vectored downwind, and thinking... yep... they're going to turn him straight into me... check that out. Pretty lights. Very bright.

The controller in this case just forgot about me for too long, and doesn't want a "deal" for me getting within that magical airspace bubble around the 73.

I get it, and know I can easily get him off the hook. "*Traffic in sight*, and we're safe to start our descent. We're out of XX for XX. We'll also start a turn to the south, now that we're clear of the ridge, direct Henderson, airport also in sight. 79M."

Sometimes the RADAR scope in a dark room, perhaps with a few too many cups of coffee, looks scarier than the separation looks in the real world. Giving him a "traffic in sight" probably made his whole outlook for the situation a whole lot better, since I just took separation off his list of things to do. ;)

He came back sounding a lot less stressed... you could almost hear in his voice... "Yay, a pilot that gets what I'm up against here for separation problems in this little valley!"

After listening to that for almost an hour, I was exhausted by just listening to KLAS doing their big evening "push". Seriously. Those guys and gals deserve every penny they make. But the dude that night definitely needed a little less caffeine or a better plan... if he'd have left me high and vectored me a bit more to the south, that would have worked, too. :D
 
denverpilot said:
The controller in this case just forgot about me for too long, and doesn't want a "deal" for me getting within that magical airspace bubble around the 73.

I get it, and know I can easily get him off the hook. "*Traffic in sight*, and we're safe to start our descent. We're out of XX for XX. We'll also start a turn to the south, now that we're clear of the ridge, direct Henderson, airport also in sight. 79M."
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Magic words to a controller...
 
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