Assumptions on Aircraft Rental

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heather.hins

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Is there a nice resource explaining the aircraft rental process for someone with a private pilot certificate? (For personal use of the plane) Some of the topics / terms are confusing for newbies just estimating costs down the road.

Here are my assumptions so far, am I on track?

"Wet" Rental"
- Fuel price is essentially built into the rental cost
- Fuel stops from other airports would be reimbursed

Cost Per Hour
- The hourly rate is for flight time only
- Daily minimums usually apply (3 hours?)

Hidden Costs
- Fuel surcharges?
- Billed while checking out the plane on a test ride?

Insurance
- The FBO's plane insurance included only pays for damage to the rented plane (not anything else...eg - a 1 million jet you clip on the way by...?)
 
heather.hins said:
Is there a nice resource explaining the aircraft rental process for someone with a private pilot certificate? (For personal use of the plane) Some of the topics / terms are confusing for newbies just estimating costs down the road.

Here are my assumptions so far, am I on track?

"Wet" Rental"
- Fuel price is essentially built into the rental cost
- Fuel stops from other airports would be reimbursed

Cost Per Hour
- The hourly rate is for flight time only
- Daily minimums usually apply (3 hours?)

Hidden Costs
- Fuel surcharges?
- Billed while checking out the plane on a test ride?

Insurance
- The FBO's plane insurance included only pays for damage to the rented plane (not anything else...eg - a 1 million jet you clip on the way by...?)
Click to expand...

Kinda sorta but not really!

Actually some of what you typed was correct with the following exceptions:

1)Fuel purchase at other airports is reimbursed for a Wet rental but some FBO's will have a limit on the price per gallon they will reimburse upto.

2) The hourly rate whether based on tach time or hobbs ( a meter that bascially tracks time) is based on the time that the engine starts to run until you shut it down not just time in the air. So if your sitting at the hold short line for 30 minutes the meter is still running.

3) Daily minimums SOMETIMES apply. It all depends on the FBO and their policy.

4) Hidden costs: Fuel surcharges are quite common and at should not be hidden but posted with the hourly rate. Flight time for checking out a plane on a test flight is not a hidden cost. You fly it you pay for it. Its that simple. Its unrealistic to think and unfair to expect that an FBO would let you fly a plane for free just to see if you like it.

5) Every FBO has a different policy regarding insurance and what it will pay for as a result it is wise to purchase your own rental insurnace which on an annual basis is not that expensive. Sometimes if you purchase the insurance through the FBO or the FBOs perferred agent they agree to waive all subrogation should you ding the plane.
 
AdamZ said:
2) The hourly rate whether based on tach time or hobbs ( a meter that bascially tracks time) is based on the time that the engine starts to run until you shut it down not just time in the air. So if your sitting at the hold short line for 30 minutes the meter is still running.
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Keep in mind that some rental aircraft have hobbs meters that are electric - wired to the master switch so the meter starts as soon as you turn the master switch on.
 
Fearless Tower said:
Keep in mind that some rental aircraft have hobbs meters that are electric - wired to the master switch so the meter starts as soon as you turn the master switch on.
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Don't most Hobbs run off an oil pressure sensor?
 
JeffDG said:
Don't most Hobbs run off an oil pressure sensor?
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Most....but not all!

It is important to know what you have in case you plan on doing something like programming a panel mounted GPS before engine start or doing a lengthy preflight with all the lights on.
 
Make sure you have your own renter's insurance. Do not trust the fbo on this. I've had an fbo owner blatantly lie to my face on this. You want and need your own independent insurance. Also, be sure to THOROUGHLY preflight each and every time,so that the fbo doesn't blame you for damage you didn't do. One place I used to rent had the crappiest airplanes ( I didn't know any better at the time), and then tried to blame renters for every little thing that clearly should have been general maintenance.
 
what airports are you considering flying out of? someone on here can probably make a reccomendation
 
Thank you for the replies, KFAR (2 choices that I know of for rentals) pretty reasonable price wise but I know there's more to it... just don't exactly know what.

I know it may seem odd to be looking at this with 1 hour of flight experience but hey... I need to know I can afford it first. :)
 
If you are small enough (say under 5'10 and around 180lbs, you could be bigger but you'll be cramped) you should be able to find a cessna 152 that is between $65 and $80 an hour wet. An instructor will run between $25 and $40 an hour. I'd recommend you do a minimum one lesson a week. Mine were usually about .8 hours to 1 hour of time in the airplane and 1.75 hours of instructor time. Something like $115 a lesson.

If you are doing it for fun don't worry about having a lesson schedule. If you're having fun just fly whenever you can. One exception is that when you begin flying unsupervised solo(20-30hrs into training for most people), fly frequently so you stay proficient. If you can't fly for a length of time, get your instructor to fly with you before you go solo again. Flight training has a good safety record because student pilots are generally not rusty and fly with instructors frequently.

However if you can make the time and money available to fly more than once a week you'll earn your ticket much faster and for less money. I'd recommend 2-3 times a week for maximum cost effectiveness.
 
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Thanks for the reply.

I'm ok with planning the costs during training, my concerns / questions are mainly aimed after my license.

Will I be able to actually afford to keep going up once I legally can? Could I afford to take the plane for a week away somewhere at a time, etc. Seems like there are so many variables, it's hard to plan / estimate the costs. I need an online estimator tool. :)

That said, if I was able to get my license then lost all my money and never flew again... I'd still be very proud of what I accomplished in life.
 
Fearless Tower said:
Keep in mind that some rental aircraft have hobbs meters that are electric - wired to the master switch so the meter starts as soon as you turn the master switch on.
Click to expand...

So could you (theoretically) chop electric to the plane while in cruise and not be charged.
 
AirDC said:
So could you (theoretically) chop electric to the plane while in cruise and not be charged.
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On the rental I get, yes. And it sucks that during pre-flight, when checking lights, etc......I get charged Hobbs time. (Only 1 minute, but thats $1.58)
 
AirDC said:
So could you (theoretically) chop electric to the plane while in cruise and not be charged.
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Yes, in theory you could go up and do pattern work at an uncontrolled field, kill the master and it would not show up on the meter.

I've never tried it since the club planes so equipped are located at a Class D field underneath class B airspace.....kind of need the electricity to power the radios and xpdr.
 
TripleZ said:
On the rental I get, yes. And it sucks that during pre-flight, when checking lights, etc......I get charged Hobbs time. (Only 1 minute, but thats $1.58)
Click to expand...

In most cases, it doesn't matter that much, but I know people who found out the hard way when turning the master on to play with the Garmin 430.
 
If I purchase fuel I get reimbursed for each gallon filled at the current price at the home base. They have a four hour minimum per 24 hour period after 24 hours (ie, you leave Saturday morning, return Sunday evening, you must fly or at least pay for 4 hours). These policies seem pretty typical.

I've heard that if you want a longer term arrangement (say, for a weeklong trip) you can often negotiate to pay a lease per day plus a dry rate per hour, and handle your fuel. You never know until you ask.
 
Most Hobbs meters are grounded by an oil pressure switch
 
Most places the minimum only applies if you have the airplane out for over 24 hrs. Some places the minimum is pretty high. Others it is not so much. Your best bet is to find a club, they usually have low minimums. mine is 1 hour per day out. So I can take an airplane from raleigh, nc to charleston, sc for a full weekend and not get dinged by the minimum.
 
I think it is a safe assumption that an FBO rental outfit (as opposed to a flying club, which tends to do things differently) would maintain the right to subrogate against you in an accident -- meaning the FBO is protected, but they can sue you to recover any damages.

Moneys will be paid out for your accident in your scenario (generally damage to the plane and damage to the things you hit are each covered to protect the FBO) and the insurance company will decide whether to send you a bill when all the checks are written.

Renters insurance is cheap. It will also cover the deductible for you, which I have seen in a range from $500 - $10,000. That alone makes it worthwhile IMO.

We have had several incidents where subrogation was in play. In each case, the insurance company asked me first whether I wanted to subrogate. In two cases, the incident was so egregious (and the pilot enough of an a-hole about it) that I asked them to proceed. In both cases, they opted not to. In each case, the pilot was "well heeled" and the case would have been a slam dunk. My assumption was that this was more of a PR decision on the case of the insurance co. Things are tightening, though, so this approach is probably going to become less likely going forward.

I have never been offered coverage which included a blanket subrogation waiver for our rental pilots.

$0.02

- Mike
 
Fearless Tower said:
Keep in mind that some rental aircraft have hobbs meters that are electric - wired to the master switch so the meter starts as soon as you turn the master switch on.
Click to expand...

All Hobbs meters are electric. It is just a matter of what they are connected to.
 
taters said:
Most Hobbs meters are grounded by an oil pressure switch
Click to expand...

I wouldn't go that far. I'd say I've seen as many that are on the master directly. Mine is on the gear (which matches the TIME IN SERVICE definition for maintenance better than flight time for pilot records).
 
flyingron said:
I wouldn't go that far. I'd say I've seen as many that are on the master directly. Mine is on the gear (which matches the TIME IN SERVICE definition for maintenance better than flight time for pilot records).
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The place I used to rent from had the pilot record the Hobbes AND the tach, though they charged by Hobbes. I'm guessing that was for thwarting any funny business...
 
Jack Spectre said:
The place I used to rent from had the pilot record the Hobbes AND the tach, though they charged by Hobbes. I'm guessing that was for thwarting any funny business...
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Nah, probably for maintenance. Most folks do maintenance off of tach time unless there's something that stipulates against it. Oil changes and things based off of engine time, typically.

Hobbs is for billing renters and pilot logbooks. It runs faster when you're idling on the ramp and the CFI is talking to you. It also ends up charging just a tad more money for pattern work, since the engine is being pulled to idle (or near idle) every lap around the patch.
 
Mike5250 said:
Find me a rental with this setup :D
I'll be the first to burn 40 gal/hr in a 172!
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We have at least a couple in the fleet at Plus One here at MYF. One is an Arrow....BUT as mentioned earlier, you kind of need to keep the electricity flowing when flying in and around all the class B in SoCal.
 
dell30rb said:
If you are small enough (say under 5'10 and around 180lbs, you could be bigger but you'll be cramped) you should be able to find a cessna 152 that is between $65 and $80 an hour wet.
Click to expand...

On the other hand, if you are 6 feet tall and weigh 230 pounds like me, you will find a Cessna 150 to be quite roomy and comfortable as well as being about as inexpensive as anything you can rent. The only real issue would be if you have a large instructor you have to be very careful about fuel to avoid going over gross. Or if the instructor smells bad. That may be an issue, because you will be rubbing sholders. But, the typical flight school 150 / 152 tends to be pretty drafty. And you can always open the window.

It all depends on what you are comparing to.
 
I rent from a friendly local FBO that includes a fuel card into every dispatch folder. Renters use that card to refuel.

On the other side of town, the FBO makes new renters to sign on a permission to pull their criminal records from the county. That was a little creepy. They also have minimums: one flight every month, which would probably make sense for people who do not fly anything else, but still, annoying. Fortunately, they quetly wave it for "good" renters.

And at yet the third place (yes, I'm that promiscous), Hobbs is built into the flight management computer. It starts counting when engine is started. There is no separate "tach" time.
 
Reading through the posts above, it looks like you have the answers to your questions. My experience has been that even though it is less expensive to rent, most people won't fly much if they rent (note I said most, not all). Paying 3 hours a day minimum for a plane sitting out at the airport while you are laying on the beach soaking up sunshine starts looking pretty expensive compared to any other form of transportation to get there. If you want to fly quite a bit, ownership starts looking more and more feasible. Plus, having a couple hours free on Sunday afternoon on a pretty day is when all the FBO rentals will be booked up. But, like you said, the accomplishment is worth it even if you don't continue doing it.
 
I can plan around the 3-hour limits, and in fact the friendly FBO that I mentioned is ready to wave it for longer cross-countries in their more expensive equipment that otherwise sits on the ramp anyway (I'm talking about the beautiful $258/hr twin). But I am displeased how they do not allow landings off pavement. There's a bunch of fly-ins at grass that I'd love to attend: Negrito, Gaston's, etc. But there's this ownership barrier to all these activities.
 
zaitcev said:
I rent from a friendly local FBO that includes a fuel card into every dispatch folder. Renters use that card to refuel.

On the other side of town, the FBO makes new renters to sign on a permission to pull their criminal records from the county. That was a little creepy. They also have minimums: one flight every month, which would probably make sense for people who do not fly anything else, but still, annoying. Fortunately, they quetly wave it for "good" renters.

And at yet the third place (yes, I'm that promiscous), Hobbs is built into the flight management computer. It starts counting when engine is started. There is no separate "tach" time.
Click to expand...

I'm familiar with all three of those places. Your review of the middle one doesn't suprise me at all, they really don't want to be a flight school, they're just waiting for their big break as a 135 charter outfit.
 
heather.hins said:
Thanks for the reply.

I'm ok with planning the costs during training, my concerns / questions are mainly aimed after my license.

Will I be able to actually afford to keep going up once I legally can? Could I afford to take the plane for a week away somewhere at a time, etc. Seems like there are so many variables, it's hard to plan / estimate the costs. I need an online estimator tool. :)

That said, if I was able to get my license then lost all my money and never flew again... I'd still be very proud of what I accomplished in life.
Click to expand...

I just got my cert and am struggling with this. I fly when I can. I paid $52 last week to do 3 landings alone at night but that was my first time alone. Pilots and passengers have helped me with expenses, so don't forget about that too. I have flown with several pilots who would not take ANY money from me, and they even let me fly their planes. So though I thought flying after my cert would be "full price" it really hasn't been. It has been less, which is great.

My AOPA insurance (renters) is between $200 and $300 per year, but you can get cheaper. Also factor in the cost of things like member dues for your planes' club per month, AOPA dues per year, 99s dues, EAA dues, AFD purchase, FAR book purchase every year, charts, TACs, Sectionals, etc. Things that are optional such as personal iPad or GPS might have monthly or yearly subscription fees and the cost of buying the device itself. Same goes for SPOT / PLB (sometimes, not sure). Then headsets, gear, etc.

My club does not post the 15% fuel surcharge fee and charges $10 more per hour if you are not a member. A checkout cost me 1-2 hours of plane time plus 2 hours of instructor time. Some flight schools won't let you rent a plane if you haven't flown it in the past 90 days (you have to pay for another checkout). Some don't have currency rules. Some require annual checkouts in all planes no matter how much you fly them. Most that I've seen have a 2 hour minimum per day if you are taking the plane away overnight. Mine has an "elevation" rule that I can't land anywhere 5,000 feet or higher without a high elevation checkout. Read the agreement!

Have fun flying,

Kimberly
 
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