Area 51 question

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rodzilla

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rodzilla
I remember seeing a youtube video of a pilot flying close to the restricted airspace overlying Area 51, flying high enough to see the Area 51 installation. I think the pilot did it for tours with friends or the general public. However he was in contact with ATC and even-though he wasn't busting any airspace violations, ATC ordered him to fly a heading opposite away from Area 51's restricted airspace, in which he complied and the video ended shortly.

Now I know you have to follow ATC commands if in direct communications with them. The questions is, could you be VFR and just on any traffic frequency and not have to answer to ATC?

Legally do you have to answer ATC anytime they may be calling out for you, what happens if that agency is military?

In other words could you completly ignore them and still see Area 51 as long as you want as long as your not busting the airspace restrictions? Not that I would do this but it was something that popped in my head and I have no idea where in the FARs to look for this.
 
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There is a point near there where if you get too close, somehow you are transported to the Bermuda triangle, and are never heard from again. Use caution.
 
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rodzilla said:
Now I know you have to follow ATC commands if in direct communications with them.
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Only if you're on an instrument plan. If you're just "VFR flight following", then not so much. Though they will frequently attempt to "flight lead" you instead of "flight follow" you, especially near B & C airspace.
 
rodzilla said:
Now I know you have to follow ATC commands if in direct communications with them.
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You do not have to follow ATC commands if the only service you are receiving is VFR flight following.

The questions is, could you be VFR and just on any traffic frequency and not have to answer to ATC?
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Yes.

Legally do you have to answer ATC anytime they may be calling out for you, what happens if that agency is military?
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You don't have to answer but I don't see any downside to it. If you hadn't been in contact with ATC previously how would they know who to call?

In other words could you completly ignore them and still see Area 51 as long as you want as long as your not busting the airspace restrictions?
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Yes. If they want aircraft to remain further away they'll have to expand the Restricted Area.
 
timwinters said:
Only if you're on an instrument plan. If you're just "VFR flight following", then not so much. Though they will frequently attempt to "flight lead" you instead of "flight follow" you, especially near B & C airspace.
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Near Class C airspace would put you in the Outer Area where Class C services are provided to participating aircraft. If you elect to call ATC you're a participating aircraft.
 
The restricted areas (surface and above) keep you far enough away that even in the flight levels the runway at Area 51 is barely perceptible.
 
Captain said:
The restricted areas (surface and above) keep you far enough away that even in the flight levels the runway at Area 51 is barely perceptible.
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Sure, I doubt that's really the point of the Restricted Area. Google Earth gives you a great view of the runways and buildings. I just looked it up: they even have one of the roads named! (OK, it's Groom Lake Road and it's the one that heads out of the base, but still...)

I'm sure it's more for protection of what might be parked on the surface or flying around in the air.
 
Captain said:
The restricted areas (surface and above) keep you far enough away that even in the flight levels the runway at Area 51 is barely perceptible.
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This. I've refueled some airplanes out around that area. The controllers are VERY good at keeping you out of that area. That was the one box they told us, "You really don't want to know what happens if you drift in that area."
 
Oh brother, let's not go through that topic again.:no:
 
Velocity173 said:
Oh brother, let's not go through that topic again.:no:
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There's really no need to; anyone who is interested can read the previous threads. I doubt that there's anything new to say on the subject.
 
its not so much anything on Area 51, its more about a specific question concerning ATC.

I thought even in VFR flight following if ATC gives you an order you have to follow it, unless you have to deviate via emergency etc etc. I always thought that as soon as you commence any type of communication with ATC you are now having to follow their instructions if they give you any even in uncontrolled airspace. Now that Im reading that thread it makes a lot of sense.

Interesting link, thanks.
 
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rodzilla said:
its not so much anything on Area 51, its more about a specific question concerning ATC.

I thought even in VFR flight following if ATC gives you an order you have to follow it, unless you have to deviate via emergency etc etc. I always thought that as soon as you commence any type of communication with ATC you are now having to follow their instructions if they give you any even in uncontrolled airspace. Now that Im reading that thread it makes a lot of sense.

Interesting link, thanks.
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"Unable"
"Cancelling IFR, leaving 11,000 for 10,500"
 
Captain said:
The restricted areas (surface and above) keep you far enough away that even in the flight levels the runway at Area 51 is barely perceptible.
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Plus, the mountains don't make it any easier to view.

When I had a window seat on an airliner that skirted the northern edge, I used the VFR sectional as a reference and I tried to make out the white lake bed, but I couldn't see it. Maybe my view was blocked by the 9300' Bald Mountain, just to the north.
 
It's almost like they drew the boxes like that for a reason....


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Next time you go to fly in to McCarren in Vegas, note all the unmarked 737's at the remote ramp shuttling in and out all day long. Those are headed to Area 51.
 
Definitely be careful. An F-15 pilot I know said that a pilot in his unit was flying an exercise out of Nellis and accidentally strayed into the Area-51 box. According to my friend the pilot was immediately told to land at an alternate airfield, and got debriefed by Area 51 personnel for about a week.

I'd fly through that area, but I'd be damn sure there was no way anybody could claim I was on the wrong side of the R-space line.
 
bullwinkle said:
Definitely be careful. An F-15 pilot I know said that a pilot in his unit was flying an exercise out of Nellis and accidentally strayed into the Area-51 box. According to my friend the pilot was immediately told to land at an alternate airfield, and got debriefed by Area 51 personnel for about a week.

I'd fly through that area, but I'd be damn sure there was no way anybody could claim I was on the wrong side of the R-space line.
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When I was flying at Nellis during the cold war if you flew into 'the box' you were kick/banned from Nellis forever. In other words after spending a few days as a guest an undisclosed location (probes anyone?) you were sent home and never again allowed to fly on the Nellis range.

Not what we call resume material if you are a career officer.
 
Sac Arrow said:
Next time you go to fly in to McCarren in Vegas, note all the unmarked 737's at the remote ramp shuttling in and out all day long. Those are headed to Area 51.
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Those are contractors for the Air Force, call sign "Janet", to shuttle folks to uh, places. :D
 
Has anyone gone on fore-flight and switched to maps mode while looking at AR51? Someone labeled all the buildings in small text. Like "Mess-hall" ect.
 
JimNtexas said:
When I was flying at Nellis during the cold war if you flew into 'the box' you were kick/banned from Nellis forever. In other words after spending a few days as a guest an undisclosed location (probes anyone?) you were sent home and never again allowed to fly on the Nellis range.

Not what we call resume material if you are a career officer.
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That sounds about like what I heard. I don't know what happened to the pilot after the debrief, but I would not be surprised if he was banned.

BTW, we was not far into "the box" as you called it, he was at the edge of the range trying to sneak around some opponent airplanes, and hit a corner of the forbidden area, a mile or less inside.
 
Heard a story of a C-141 when I was at Eglin that flew over one of the restricted areas on Eglin AFB when they turned early and a classified training mission was in progress on the ground. When they landed at Hurlburt AFB (adjacent to Eglin) supposedly they were confined to that base until the real mission went off, something like a month. I could tell ya what it was but then you'd be eliminated! :D
 
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