timwinters
Ejection Handle Pulled
Yup Farming selects for dumb farm boys, the pretty ones move off and go to work for Disney.
Yeah, this is one of those thread that immediately goes on ignore but I couldn't resist the left jab first.
Ignored now.
Are asian pilots as poor pilots as they are drivers?
- Thread starter vince
- Start date
Yeah, this is one of those thread that immediately goes on ignore but I couldn't resist the left jab first.
Ignored now.
redtail
En-Route
- Joined
- Aug 23, 2011
- Messages
- 4,408
- Location
- 93 million miles from the sun
- Display Name
Display name:
Redtail
Eagle I
Pre-takeoff checklist
Ha! I was just skimming through this thread, debating whether to roll my eyes or barf, but your spot-on post just made me laugh. Thanks!
Art VanDelay
Pattern Altitude
To answer the OP's question - Yes, yes they are. And just so you know where I'm coming from my wife is half Asian and half French and she absolutely agrees with me on this.
ClimbnSink
Ejection Handle Pulled
- Joined
- Oct 11, 2007
- Messages
- 6,997
- Display Name
Display name:
Greg
If skin color can get selected for why not mental aptitude? Obviously not driving as cars have not been around long enough. Let's call it energy management or spatial reasoning or sometin. Unfortunately for you IQ(as measured by tests, something Asians excel at) correlates with environment. Colder it was where your great great great grandaddy grew up the smarter you are. Environment selects for physical and mental features. Everything you believe is wrong. And you know it.
MAKG1
Touchdown! Greaser!
- Joined
- Jun 19, 2012
- Messages
- 13,411
- Location
- California central coast
- Display Name
Display name:
MAKG
Because there are much more important effects on intelligence or skills than where one's ancestors were born.
There is no significant correlation. There was one book published a few decades ago that made the claim, but it was neither statistically significant nor larger than a rounding error. The difference in IQ tests -- which are known to have irrelevant biases -- was a few points. Variation within populations was several dozen, and measurement error was several points.
That means the conclusion was intended to sell books to people like you who don't understand it. It has no validity whatsoever. It is a null result, fully consistent with no difference at all. And just as predictive as a sun sign or other BS in predicting one's skills. That is, not at all. Racist claptrap, nothing more.
ClimbnSink
Ejection Handle Pulled
- Joined
- Oct 11, 2007
- Messages
- 6,997
- Display Name
Display name:
Greg
Reality claptrap as opposed to delusional cultural equality claptrap. Do you seriously believe that while all sorts of physical characteristics were selected for by different environments over time that the selection pressure and result was identical for mental aptitudes across the planet and time?
There is no point in arguing with these people. Their minds are closed when it comes to certain topics and certain realities.
I have friends who have worked in the aviation industry in Asia (specifically Korea and China) and have told me how it is common knowledge at how many horrible pilots there are there. That combined with a tangle I had with an awful asian driver on the drive in to work today made me think of all of this because again it is common knowledge that Asian drivers are among the worst (especially female asian drivers).
Again, stop with all the racist stuff too. I have plenty of asian friends who agree with me and who are second generation or whatever and this ABSOLUTELY DOES NOT APPLY TO THEM. There is something about some asian cultures where they are not taught to think independently or to react in certain ways.
Well then that makes you a coward. Because it means you lob a grenade but are too scared to stick around and see what my response is. It's easy to just attack then run away. Attack and then defend your position takes more guts.
So run away, Timmy. Run as fast as you can.
Eagle I
Pre-takeoff checklist
Thank you too!!! Thank you for your valuable contribution to the discussion.
OK, here's a contribution for you: why don't you call your insurance company and ask who, statistically, are the worst drivers. They would probably tell you young white males. Just saying.
ClimbnSink
Ejection Handle Pulled
- Joined
- Oct 11, 2007
- Messages
- 6,997
- Display Name
Display name:
Greg
Based on what measure? Who costs the most to insure(company side not consumer) and why aren't the insurance companies allowed to charge that population more?
Eagle I
Pre-takeoff checklist
Based on claim rates, whether accidents, or theft (which is highly dependent on place of residence). And insurance rates ARE usually based on who is more likely to have an accident or file a claim. I'm a 55-year-old woman who pays $600 a year for car insurance, in a state with notoriously high rates of everything. I'm guessing most 18-year-old males, regardless of ethnicity and place of residence, pay a lot more, on average. Maybe I'm wrong.
Palmpilot
Touchdown! Greaser!
If you don't want to receive PMs, there is an option for that in your user CP. (See link near the upper left of this page.)
docmirror
Touchdown! Greaser!
- Joined
- Jan 5, 2007
- Messages
- 12,008
- Display Name
Display name:
Cowboy - yeehah!
Ectually, no insurance carrier would ever in a million years pose an actuarial change based on race. The lawsuit would be - stupendous.
It's also why I qualified my response as being that they aren't 'bad' as in dangerous, just inefficient. Maybe inelegant would be more descriptive. If one can drive elegantly I guess that is a better adjective.
Define "worst drivers". If you mean the highest number of accidents? Then yes...statistically young teenage drivers are the worst. Don't think there is much of a difference between male and female especially these days with all that texting and driving. Girls are even worse at doing that kind of stuff on the highway. They are not necessarily bad drivers if you take away their phones.
But I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about those incredibly annoying drivers who are always in the wrong lane, driving too slowly, dithering and generally gumming up traffic. Phones or no phones, they just plain suck.
The insurance companies don't care about them. The fact that people like this cause billions of dollars in inefficiencies and intense aggravation to the rest of us is of no concern to the insurance companies.
I also love it when somebody comes on a thread complaining about the thread... As if we forced them to read it.
SixPapaCharlie
May the force be with you
- Joined
- Aug 8, 2013
- Messages
- 16,020
- Display Name
Display name:
Sixer
N5922S
Line Up and Wait
- Joined
- Jan 27, 2012
- Messages
- 514
- Display Name
Display name:
N5922S
Dav8or
Final Approach
Oh boo hoo! Somebody got in your way and didn't drive the "correct speed" according to you. I'll bet you got right up on their bumper and flashed your high beams and they were just too stupid to figure that one out, right? They must not have gotten the memo about the road belonging to you and universe revolving around you. Phone or no phone, you just suck.
Damn right! If you're too slow move over to the right.
By the way... don't try that trick of sitting in the left lane on the highway going slowly in Europe.
Just looking out for ya!
SixPapaCharlie
May the force be with you
- Joined
- Aug 8, 2013
- Messages
- 16,020
- Display Name
Display name:
Sixer
Sorry. I once claimed to be a poster who was trolling. Someone asked if I was him and I responded "Yes and I will no longer post"
Now when one shows up, I get a message or two asking "Dude are you really XYZ person"
I don't want to stop PMs in general.
My post was just my way of saying "He's back"
Hope that makes sense.
Not really.
Laughing. Insurance companies are private sector producers. They don't need a reason not to service you, especially insurance carriers. They base their rates and who they will sign based on risk.
If Asians are found to be more risky, they they will either not be insured or pay more. There are no laws that prevent an insurance company from denying someone based on race if connected to a risk pool.
Well that's nice in theory but in practice it could be very problematic for an insurance company to have different rates based on race. It could be interpreted as being discriminatory. So while you would seem to be right in principle... in practice no this would never happen.
For example... Higher insurance rates for young black males? Can you imagine the outcry if this were done?
docmirror
Touchdown! Greaser!
- Joined
- Jan 5, 2007
- Messages
- 12,008
- Display Name
Display name:
Cowboy - yeehah!
Really? Insurance companies produce something? Glad I could get you guffawing with my statement that for an insurer to use race as an actuarial deciding factor is suitable corporate policy. Cuz that's what I said, that the lawsuit risk would be astronomical if it were shown that any insurer used race to determine premium. One only needs to look back at the lending market which blacklisted neighborhoods, and race based lending for your answer.
I didn't say there were laws against it - but there prolly are laws against it somewhere. I'm still trying to figure out what an insurance company "produces". Not laughing.
RotorAndWing
Final Approach
- Joined
- Sep 5, 2008
- Messages
- 8,496
- Location
- Other side of the world
- Display Name
Display name:
Rotor&Wing
I'm an expat currently flying in SE Asia. Here is my take on the state of aviation over here as it relates to pilots.
Like anywhere else you have good and bad. Some of my coworkers I would put up against any US trained pilot anytime as far as knowledge and skill. Then there are the others.
Many pilots over here are a product of their respective countries military. And for most 3rd world countries that ain't saying much. The few countries that have GA the training and standards vary wildly. Many of the local Civil Aviation Authorities (their version of the FAA) have weak standards and untrained Inspectors. Most of these Inspectors are retired military or retired airline pilots. When they show up for the checkride if you have enough money, you pass. Since the Inspectors have weak backgrounds they pass on their lack of knowledge, same with Instructors.
I know of a few places in Manila that will print you an exact replica of a pilots license for less than $5 and you can get whatever you want printed on there. Then that person goes out with his new "license" and looks for a job so he can get "OJT" and learn his new profession. It happens.
The northern Asia (Korea and Japan) is another story. Totalitarian training with ex military Instructors who believe intimidation and abuse will make you "learn". Also the culture leads into some interesting cockpit scenarios, and CRM as we know it doesn't exist. Just see the latest fiasco's with Asiana to see how well that works out.
Like anywhere else you have good and bad. Some of my coworkers I would put up against any US trained pilot anytime as far as knowledge and skill. Then there are the others.
Many pilots over here are a product of their respective countries military. And for most 3rd world countries that ain't saying much. The few countries that have GA the training and standards vary wildly. Many of the local Civil Aviation Authorities (their version of the FAA) have weak standards and untrained Inspectors. Most of these Inspectors are retired military or retired airline pilots. When they show up for the checkride if you have enough money, you pass. Since the Inspectors have weak backgrounds they pass on their lack of knowledge, same with Instructors.
I know of a few places in Manila that will print you an exact replica of a pilots license for less than $5 and you can get whatever you want printed on there. Then that person goes out with his new "license" and looks for a job so he can get "OJT" and learn his new profession. It happens.
The northern Asia (Korea and Japan) is another story. Totalitarian training with ex military Instructors who believe intimidation and abuse will make you "learn". Also the culture leads into some interesting cockpit scenarios, and CRM as we know it doesn't exist. Just see the latest fiasco's with Asiana to see how well that works out.
It is done. So are varied rates for young females versus young males. And for genetic risk factors unique to blacks and Jews. Or for American Indians and alcohol.
In fact, actuary tables are mostly just exactly that, a compilation of statistics next to a set of grouped characteristics. Race, age, gender, habits, and history are all taken into consideration. Even criminal records and financial background.
Last edited:
tomf188
Pre-Flight
Are you as racist as you sound?
Are you as childish as you sound?
201Driver
Pre-Flight
Have you run into any bad asian pilots in the air lately? Your generalization and judgement sounds like you're a pretty bad pilot. Are you sure you're not asian?
brianwrites
Pre-Flight
- Joined
- May 24, 2014
- Messages
- 54
- Display Name
Display name:
Brianwrites
There was a similar thread like this in the 1940's down at Tuskegee.
NoHeat
En-Route
Ride a taxi if you want to find out how drivers are in a country.
Japan had the very best taxi I've ever been in. Very carefully driven, spotlessly clean car, with a well-groomed driver wearing a nice business suit who was very courteous. He couldn't possibly do wrong. If my experience with that Asian driver is any indication of what Asian pilots do, I will gladly buy a ticket to fly with them.
Worst taxi ride ever for me was in Mexico, where the driver slowed to maybe 40 when he drove through red lights. No seat belts, either. Does that mean I should avoid Mexican airlines?
Japan had the very best taxi I've ever been in. Very carefully driven, spotlessly clean car, with a well-groomed driver wearing a nice business suit who was very courteous. He couldn't possibly do wrong. If my experience with that Asian driver is any indication of what Asian pilots do, I will gladly buy a ticket to fly with them.
Worst taxi ride ever for me was in Mexico, where the driver slowed to maybe 40 when he drove through red lights. No seat belts, either. Does that mean I should avoid Mexican airlines?
Well that's interesting. Allow me to give you my Japanese taxi experience
(Yes, I know, shockingly I'm not a masturbating farm boy
)This was not Tokyo but a small industrial town a few hundred miles southwest.
My well groomed driver looked a little more like a penguin and the white gloves, especially, were quite ridiculous looking. The doilies on the seats (a Toyota Crown) too were a nice touch if you like doilies on your seats (I don't but maybe you do). That description was really just to set the scene, let's talk about the actual driving experience. Earlier that day I'd left the hotel with some trepidation because I was in a part of Japan that was fairly far off the beaten track and NOBODY spoke english at the hotel, or anywhere else I went. The business I was visiting had one person who could speak english but he was not with me. As I left I grabbed a card from the hotel front desk and confirmed it had the address on the card. I was going to take the train and wanted to make sure I could get back.
Fast forward to later that day. I had ended up on the other side of the town and I got to the point where I decided to head home. No problem right? I can just jump in a taxi and show them the card right? Wrong! First taxi I jump into, no engrish. I show the peculiarly dressed gentlemen the card. He scratches his head and squints. Then gives it back to me and makes it obvious I need to leave. Second taxi same thing. Third taxi there is an older driver and he speaks english! Says he learned to speak english by listening to the Beatles in the 60s... He tells me something that is amazing: Japanese taxi drivers don't drive more than a few kilometers from where they are based. You're supposed to take trains to get close and only use taxis for the last mile or two. They don't even have maps.
Best taxi drivers in the world my foot!
HelloWorld
Filing Flight Plan
Didn't some asian island nation in 1930s produce a corp of naval aviators competent enough to contend for world domination against outsized opponents (though thwarted by their weak communication encryption)?
May be a data point that goes against the OP's hypothesis.
May be a data point that goes against the OP's hypothesis.
Yes you are correct. The fact that these great pilots needed to die as part of the mission is a minor detail we will not get into.
Their landings were not great.
Sac Arrow
Touchdown! Greaser!
- Joined
- May 11, 2010
- Messages
- 20,343
- Location
- Charlotte, NC
- Display Name
Display name:
Snorting his way across the USA
Actually the Japanese had been producing military aircraft since 1918. Most of their aircraft to the 30's were based on Western designs, initially with outsourced engines. They were as on top of military aviation development as Europe was up to WWII. So no, they didn't just create it from scratch shortly before the war.
The intention of the Kamikaze program was to preserve Japan's stock of seasoned, experienced pilots by replacing them with marginally trained single mission pilots for a last ditch offensive effort.