Are all FAA administrators this dumb?

frcabot said:
Disagree. If the NOTAM said schedule air carrier flights were exempted, then they should have been exempted.
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The NOTAM I've seen didn't specifically say that. It just said "unless authorized by ATC."
 
Palmpilot said:
I was unable to find a recording of that ZMP sector.
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Given the lack of info in the article and ATC recordings available, it's just another
story where everyone can fill in the blanks they way they prefer. FAA was dumb, pilot was dumb, whatever.
 
Palmpilot said:
The NOTAM I've seen didn't specifically say that. It just said "unless authorized by ATC.
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I didn't read it, but allegiant said there was a specific carveout for scheduled air carrier ops. In fact I've seen many NOTAMs with similar carveouts.
 
warthog1984 said:
And they were allowed in- as previously scheduled and during lulls in the practice.

Capt busts his ETA by an hour, he has to wait for the next open space.
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And if he can't do that, he declares an emergency and lands. Problem solved. Everyone lands safe and sound. Yay.
 
frcabot said:
And if he can't do that, he declares an emergency and lands. Problem solved. Everyone lands safe and sound. Yay.
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Or he diverts before an emergency situation arises, an even better solution.
 
frcabot said:
Yes, he should have been psychic and anticipated that the NOTAM didn't say what it did.
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Does "unless authorized by ATC" necessarily mean that the airline can expect its landing to be authorized?
 
Palmpilot said:
Does "unless authorized by ATC" necessarily mean that the airline can expect its landing to be authorized?
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Again, that's not what it says according to Allegiant. Does someone want to post the NOTAM?
 
Palmpilot said:
It's at the link in Post #44.
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Although I can't see it, I've looked at other airshow TFRs. They don't seem to contain an exception for scheduled air carrier ops. Assuming that's also true for the Fargo TFR and that Allegiant is simply full of poop, I agree that the error here was made at takeoff, poor dispatcher and pilot prep. If that's correct, then the emergency was indeed caused by Allegiant's negligence. Still though, being in that position (even if it was his fault), I can't second guess his decision to declare. Nor should the FAA or NTSB. Criticize the pre-takeoff decision-making all you want, but once in the air the PIC has absolute responsibility and authority to get the plane down safely.
 
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frcabot said:
Yes, he should have been psychic and anticipated that the NOTAM didn't say what it did.
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The NOTAM would be totally irrelevant to the decision to divert. You either have enough fuel to accept a delay or you don't. If you don't , then divert before the situation becomes critical.

The pilot would have been given an expect further clearance time with the holding instructions.

We don't know what that EFC time was, so it is hard to judge whether this emergency was due to the pilot's poor decision making or a misleading EFC time from ATC.
 
frcabot said:
Not an aopa member. Copy and paste?
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attachment.php


When I tested the link, I logged out of the AOPA Forum, but I forgot to log out of the AOPA Web site. :redface:
 
warthog1984 said:
Flight missed its slot by an hour, pilots knew this taking off. Rather than anybody contacting tower to work the delayed arrival into a lull period as other flights did, capt. called up cold and tower had to find the next slot.

After 18 minutes of holding, capt was down to 48 minutes of fuel and was told he could divert, wait 20 min, or declare.

Capt decided to declare but screwed up the call, leading to these questions.

Crew f***ed up by the numbers. End decision was questionable, but the emergency began when they pushed back from the gate.
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I still want to know where the dispatcher was in all this.:dunno: I would think they would be aware of the NOTAM and have called in the late departure to coordinate the arrival.
 
frcabot said:
Ok, thanks. Helpful. So confirms poor preflight planning.
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Not so sure about that. The other thread on this subject has 3 different versions of the same NOTAM.
 
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