Apron in front of hangar

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dmount76

Filing Flight Plan
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Wheatland, WY
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dmount76
Our municipality is preparing to use AIP funds to reconstruct the apron. We still have many privately owned hangars (real estate too) at the field that join the apron. The property boundary generally extends 25 or so feet in front of the hangar then begins airport property. It totally makes sense that the hangar owner is responsible for the apron on their property. We are being told the apron will only be reconstructed beginning 50 feet from the door of the hangar and that if we want new apron on the airports property (for about 25 feet) in front of our hangar, that the hangar owner needs to pony up for that.

Can anyone help shed light on this for us? Anyone else faced this?
 
Knowing the location might help but I can understand why you would not release it.

Does the current apron go to the airport boundary?
If yes, is there a reason the municipality decided not to recondition what was already paved?
Is there a new code in the municipality for "set back" and they cannot pave to the fence?

It's their property, they can choose where to pave.
When you have "through the fence access" to an airport, they can lay down the restrictions. There should have been or should be an "airport stakeholders group" to work with airport management and the municipality.
 
If they are using Federal grants for the apron, the FAA will not pay for portions of pavement that are "exclusive use", such as the approaches to individual hangars. The FAA will also not pay for pavement around a building that the "wheels" of an aircraft can't use, usually about 25 feet.
 
BillTIZ said:
When you have "through the fence access" to an airport, they can lay down the restrictions.
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Correct. The FAA doesn’t like through the fence access, however lots of places are grandfathered in. In this case, it doesn’t sound like through the fence access, but rather ground leased hangars.

That said, like mentioned above, exclusive use pavement generally isn’t recognized by the FAA and likely the State aeronautics department (it isn’t here), so they won’t provide any funding for repair or maintenance. It would be up to the municipality itself to fund and that gets expensive quick. You would be surprised what kind of caveats are in many grant contracts.
 
Thanks for the input. I've taken a google maps screenshot. The area between the red and white line is what is in question. The red line is the property boundary.
ramp.jpg
 
I’m curious about any platted right of ways.
 
No idea what the cost would be. I'm guessing they will ask us to pay our pro-rated share based on square feet. Knowing what FAA projects cost it will be 10X what it should cost. I don't know of any platted right of ways. These hangars have been here for decades and certainly have a historical use.
 
With where the lines are drawn on the photo it looks like the airport sponsor is covering the width of the taxiway area only. I know that when my business partner constructed our hangar there were hangar placement requirements that ultimately required us to foot the bill for both our apron and the extra concrete needed to connect it to the taxiway. I wasn't part of the negotiation so unfortunately I don't know specifics on how that went but it wouldn't surprise me to hear that there is no funding for the area in question.
 
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dmount76 said:
Our municipality is preparing to use AIP funds to reconstruct the apron. We still have many privately owned hangars (real estate too) at the field that join the apron. The property boundary generally extends 25 or so feet in front of the hangar then begins airport property. It totally makes sense that the hangar owner is responsible for the apron on their property. We are being told the apron will only be reconstructed beginning 50 feet from the door of the hangar and that if we want new apron on the airports property (for about 25 feet) in front of our hangar, that the hangar owner needs to pony up for that.

Can anyone help shed light on this for us? Anyone else faced this?
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So you think the FAA or your airport should pay to resurface an area that basically only serves as a path to private property. Good luck with that.
 
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Unfortunately there is no way around this. In the last iteration of the AIP Handbook, the distance was based on the design group of the taxiway or taxilane running past the hangar or building in question (22 or 40 feet depending on Group I or II if I remember right). Then they changed it to 50 feet for all situations.
 
In the lower part of the picture, due to the offset of the taxi center line due to the tiedowns, that area may need to become part of the taxiway. But in the upper area, the space between the red and white lines does not NEED to be paved.

And there is a lot of pavement between the red line and the hangars that is not required.
 
I'm at an airport in Michigan where some of us OWN our buildings and the airport also owns some. The airport owns ALL of the ground and leases to those that own their own hangar. The airport wants to re-pave the taxi streets in front of our hangars and the main taxiways. They expect the hangar owners to re-pave the ramp/ apron from the taxi-street to their hangar at the same time and of course at the hangar owners expense. I'm not sure that the hangar owners should foot the bill for an apron on leased airport owned ground. My building once had a FBO in it as such I have a 50 foot ramp and 90 feet long so yeah about 4,500 square feet. Ouch! $14,000 just in concrete!

I can't find anything on the FAA site that offers answers.
 
RAD said:
I'm at an airport in Michigan where some of us OWN our buildings and the airport also owns some. The airport owns ALL of the ground and leases to those that own their own hangar.
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Sounds like a ground lease. Very common.
RAD said:
The airport wants to re-pave the taxi streets in front of our hangars and the main taxiways. They expect the hangar owners to re-pave the ramp/ apron from the taxi-street to their hangar at the same time and of course at the hangar owners expense.
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What’s the footprint that’s defined in the lease agreement? If the apron is part of the ground lease, then they’re perfectly in their right to make the lessee pay for the paving costs. That’s your responsibility.
RAD said:
I'm not sure that the hangar owners should foot the bill for an apron on leased airport owned ground.
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Depends how the lease is written/structured and who’s responsible for what.
 
Yes it is a ground lease.
My building footprint is 4,500 sf and my rate is based on that sq., and only that SF - I also pay a reduced rate based on the footprint to pay for lawn mowing around the building which is FAR more than the grass that I have.
There is nothing about ramp/apron responsibility in the lease.
Interesting that I have requested the distance out from my building which the manager believes that I'm responsible for and he has yet to respond with that answer. I think it's because he can't find the answer or has realized that he is requiring something that is not written and can't require.
 
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