Approach question, manditory hold

[Bill]

http://www.myairplane.com/databases/approach/pdfs/06130N3.PDF

OK, this is NBD 03 into HDI, a small airport nearby that has a manditory hold. I have a question on the hold:

1. When flying a direct entry, you'd go to the station, turn outbound on 228, time for a minute, then go inbound to the station. Once you pass the station, you've satisfied the manditory hold, and may continue to proceed inbound, correct?
2. If doing a parallel or teardrop entry, you would enter the protected area at the station, then do your teardrop or parallel maneuver, and then return to the station. Then, you must fly the hold circuit in full before continuing in, correct? IOW, if flying teardrop or parallel entry, you kind of make two circuits of the protected area, correct?

 

[wsuffa]

http://www.myairplane.com/databases/approach/pdfs/06130N3.PDF

OK, this is NBD 03 into HDI, a small airport nearby that has a manditory hold. I have a question on the hold:

1. When flying a direct entry, you'd go to the station, turn outbound on 228, time for a minute, then go inbound to the station. Once you pass the station, you've satisfied the manditory hold, and may continue to proceed inbound, correct?

1. 
   
   Yes. You satisfy the requirement when you pass the holding fix twice.
   
   

   [*]If doing a parallel or teardrop entry, you would enter the protected area at the station, then do your teardrop or parallel maneuver, and then return to the station. Then, you must fly the hold circuit in full before continuing in, correct? IOW, if flying teardrop or parallel entry, you kind of make two circuits of the protected area, correct?

Nope. The requirement is met when you pass the holding fix twice.

This is commonly known as HPILPT (Holding Pattern In Lieu of Procedure Turn). The requirement for a procedure turn (and this hold) is to cross the fix twice. HOWEVER, if ATC specifies a longer amount of holding, you must do the hold as ATC specifies, also, if this is the last fix on your flight plan and you go no-radio, you must hold until the arrival time, then execute the approach.

 

[grattonja]

My answer is qualified by the fact that I am not nearly as experienced as many here.

1. I think you are correct. You need to get established, which means fly to the navaid and once around the park before proceeding on.

2. I think you are incorrect. Once you have teardropped or done your parallel entry, and are established inbound to the fix, you are "in the hold" and don't need to do the trip around again. For either of these entries, you have done a procedure turn and are within the holding pattern. I believe that is enough.

Obviously, ATC instructions otherwise vitiate either of these. Vectors could do away with the PT altogether. Advice to get in the penalty box and stay there for a certain period of time would mean making more than one racetrack.

Other opinions?

Jim G

 

[Bill]

Nope. The requirement is met when you pass the holding fix twice.

Ok, to beat a dead horse to death, if I were to enter from the north (180 heading into station), pass station, do my teardrop entry, once I pass station the second time I'm good to head inbound without another circuit of the hold, correct?

 

[grattonja]

Ok, to beat a dead horse to death, if I were to enter from the north (180 heading into station), pass station, do my teardrop entry, once I pass station the second time I'm good to head inbound without another circuit of the hold, correct?

Roger that. That's how I was taught to do it anyway.

You doing a lot of NDB approaches? Good on ya! I find those challenging. Thinking and flying at the same time Not always so sure about my ability to do that!

Jim G

 

[Bill]

You doing a lot of NDB approaches? Good on ya! I find those challenging. Thinking and flying at the same time

I've practiced four different NDB's at four different airports. I WILL have to demonstrate an NDB approach on the checkride (my trainer does not have an IFR GPS), and if the winds don't allow NDB 20 at CHA, I'll likely have to do NDB 03 at HDI. I want to be ready and have it down cold.

And, I'm weird, as I like the challenge of flying NDB approaches, makes the rest seem real easy.

 

[Dave Theisen]

Bill, The entry to the hold satisfies the requirement

This is from section 5-4-9 in the AIM Procedure Turns

4. A holding pattern in lieu of procedure turn may be specified for course reversal in some procedures. In such cases, the holding pattern is established over an intermediate fix or a final approach fix. The holding pattern distance or time specified in the profile view must be observed. Maximum holding airspeed limitations as set forth for all holding patterns apply. The holding pattern maneuver is completed when the aircraft is established on the inbound course after executing the appropriate entry. If cleared for the approach prior to returning to the holding fix, and the aircraft is at the prescribed altitude, additional circuits of the holding pattern are not necessary nor expected by ATC. If pilots elect to make additional circuits to lose excessive altitude or to become better established on course, it is their responsibility to so advise ATC upon receipt of their approach clearance

 

[Bill]

This is from section 5-4-9 in the AIM Procedure Turns

Thanks, Dave. To hijack my own thread, you teach in Atlanta, yes? Does your FBO rent anything interesting like Tigers or Diamonds?

 

[Dave Theisen]

Thanks, Dave. To hijack my own thread, you teach in Atlanta, yes? Does your FBO rent anything interesting like Tigers or Diamonds?

We had a Tiger which is getting new paint and an engine. I think the leaseback owner is leaning toward taking it off the rental line.

We have a Decathlon, a G1000 equipped Cessna 182, will have a G1000 172 arriving sometime next week, and a Duchess

You can check us out at http://www.superiorflight.com/

 

[flyingcheesehead]

The holding pattern maneuver is completed when the aircraft is established on the inbound course after executing the appropriate entry.

Bill,

The easy way to remember this is that no matter what type of entry it is, unless other arrangements are made with ATC, you will ALWAYS cross the fix exactly TWICE, regardless of what kind of entry you do.

Hope this helps,

another suffering IFR student.

 

[Bill]

The easy way to remember this is that no matter what type of entry it is, unless other arrangements are made with ATC, you will ALWAYS cross the fix exactly TWICE, regardless of what kind of entry you do.

Thou shalt count to two...

 

[EdFred]

Looking at the plate, I love some of the VOR names we have in this country.