Approach & Landing Speeds: 2003 Warrior III

[AggieMike88]

(this has been crossposted on other boards)

I am starting a transition into a 2003 Warrior III owned by the local club, USAviators (<< Link provided if you want to see a photo)

For those familiar with the later version of the Warrior III, what speeds and flap settings are you using as your approach the airport and in the pattern?

POH states the following:

"The airplane should be trimmed to an initial-approach speed of about 70 KIAS with a final-approach speed of 63 KIAS with flaps extended to 40°. The flaps can be lowered at speeds up to 103 KIAS, if desired."

I take this to mean that when you turn from base to "long" final, you should be at 70-KIAS and when on short final and crossing the fence, 63 KIAS.


I realize the instructor will provide all the information and demonstrate the right techniques. However, I wish to hear the wisdom of the gallery here.

What are you setting for the different spots in the pattern (downwind, abeam, base, long final, short final, numbers) for speed and flaps?

If you can provide information for "normal" winds, gusty winds, "normal" crosswind, and challenging crosswinds, that too is appreciated.
Thanks!!

 

[murphey]

I fly a cherokee and almost never extend full flaps on landing. In the event of a go-around, the cherokee will happily climb (acceptably) with first & second settings of flaps. With the 3rd (full) flap setting, it's "much more interesting" to go-around.

 

[bigred177]

I fly a cherokee and almost never extend full flaps on landing. In the event of a go-around, the cherokee will happily climb (acceptably) with first & second settings of flaps. With the 3rd (full) flap setting, it's "much more interesting" to go-around.

That and a Cherokee has enough drag on its own. You can be at 120KIAS on short final, pull the power and after a mild slip still have it on the numbers.

But to do it the way my instructor learnt me:
Abeam the numbers: 1700rpm, 90KTS, 1st notch
Turn base: 80KTS, 2nd notch
Final: 70KTS, 3rd notch, start pulling power over the runway.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

I take this to mean that when you turn from base to "long" final, you should be at 70-KIAS and when on short final and crossing the fence, 63 KIAS.

I actually took it to mean that you would trim for 70 KIAS with the flaps up, and as you add the flaps and turn to base and final, you'll eventually end up at 63.

In the 182, I trim for 100 mph on downwind, pull the power to 2000 RPM, and add flaps on the turn to base and final, going to full flaps on final and it nicely settles into the 80mph final approach speed I like, with no additional trim settings. I add flaps on the turns rather than pulling back on the yoke much, that helps to keep the plane from ballooning or doing funny things with pitch if I were to counteract it just right... Anyway, I've found that this works well to make a nice, smooth, passenger-friendly approach. The additional flaps slow the plane nicely, so I don't have to touch trim or power between downwind and the flare.

See what happens when you trim for 70 KIAS with 0 flaps, it may settle in nicely to that 63 KIAS number on final in the same way.

 

[jesse]

In most airplanes like that, I simply try to slow to somewhere in the white arc on downwind, abeam my touchdown point I dump full flaps, ease the power out, and start my base turn shortly thereafter.

I really pay no attention to speed on final and pay more attention to the world outside and the way the airplane feels. Easy to do with these small light draggy GA aircraft. A little harder to do on the faster slick stuff. Too low add some power, too high, remove some power, still too high? Slip

If you really want a speed...57-60 knots over the fence depending on weight with full flaps. If you float do it slower. You'll figure out what works quickly.

 

[GMascelli]

But to do it the way my instructor learnt me:
Abeam the numbers: 1700rpm, 90KTS, 1st notch
Turn base: 80KTS, 2nd notch
Final: 70KTS, 3rd notch, start pulling power over the runway.

+1

My rule has always been 1500 rpm 90-80-70, downwind, base and final. Worked great for the Archer II that I flew and the Sundowner too.

 

[poadeleted20]

70 KIAS with full flap is pretty doggone fast on final in a Warrior. I think the numbers in the POH are a real good starting point, and you might even want to be slower if you're light. But regardless of weight, once you know the attitude that the right speed gives on final, you don't even need to look at the ASI any more.

As for landing with less than full flaps just because it doesn't climb well with full flaps, well, that J-bar will retract from full to 2/3 in less time than it takes to talk about it.

 

[dmccormack]

As for landing with less than full flaps just because it doesn't climb well with full flaps, well, that J-bar will retract from full to 2/3 in less time than it takes to talk about it.

Exactly --one of the wonderful advantages of that flap mechanism!!

 

[AggieMike88]

Finished the checkout yesterday late afternoon and got my night currency done at the same time.

Instructor did a great job. After about the 4th or 5th lap, I was really getting the feel for the aircraft and was acheiving nice stabilized landings.

The instructor taught using the "windows" or keypoints of when to do what and where those windows are. Goal is to fly through these windows at the correct speeds, atitudes, and flap settings:

• On downwind, be at TPA and about 95 KIAS, power setting just enough to hold TPA
• Abeam, pull power to 1400-1500 RPM, set first notch of flaps, pitch for 90 KIAS begin establishing a 500 FPM descent
• Turn Base after losing about 200-250 feet.
• Once established on base, apply 2nd knotch flaps, pitch for 80 KIAS
• Turn Final at 500 AGL
• Once established on long final, pitch for 70KIAS, use small power changes as needed.
• On short final, pitch for 60, and land with the stall horn chirping.

Once I got a feel for things, this worked pretty good. Only plopped once, rest were pretty smooth. Nose is for sure heavy than the DA20-C1 I trained in. Took a bit more effort to keep a slight wheelie going for aero braking.

Another observation between the Diamond and this Warrior is the notable drag that the 2nd notch of flaps creates. With the Warrior, that 2nd notch felt like pulling the handbrake on a sports car slightly. This definitely assisted in slowing to 80 KIAS without having to pitch upward too much.

Definitely can use more practice, but for my first 12 landings in this aircraft, I'm happy with the result.

 

[poadeleted20]

The instructor taught using the "windows" or keypoints of when to do what and where those windows are. Goal is to fly through these windows at the correct speeds, atitudes, and flap settings:

You did indeed have a good instructor. You can expand and extend this method out to cruise altitude and for bigger, faster planes as you progress.