AOPA's non-reaction to "Secret No Fly Zone"

iflyforfun

iflyforfun

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After reading the story of the arrested glider pilot, I am completely and utterly disappointed by AOPA. I've threatened in the past to cancel my membership, but their complete failure to support a fellow pilot who was illegally and unconstitutionally abused by the system is the "straw that broke the camels back".

So, I contacted them and cancelled my auto-renewal and legal services plan. I then send them a long note that I expect MY advocacy group that I've been a member of for over a decade to support pilots such as Mr. Fleming. Their response is below just for entertainment.

"Thank you for contacting AOPA!

Our representatives are available Monday - Friday, 8:30 am - 6 pm (ET), and although we are often able to answer emails within a few hours, we are experiencing a backlog of several weeks."

Empasis added is mine. So they do absolutely nothing as a pilots rights are completely trampled but fortunately they have the resources to get back to me in a few weeks.

I know AOPA does some good. I know they are our best voice. I know that I should probably continue to support them ... but I won't. I wouldn't complain over an increase in fees, but I won't continue to support an organization that doesn't protect our most BASIC rights - they right to legally fly without being arrested.

I've threatened in the past, but I've now cancelled my auto-renewal and I WON'T renew unless they get heavily involved with Mr. Fleming and agressively right this wrong.
 
backlogged 2 weeks? Sorry about that guys, everyone is tied up right now trying to get me to renew my membership that expired on 12/31 I get phone calls from VA daily, some emails, some mailings. Hell, I'd probably renew but it's too much fun seeing what they'll do next. I've been bribed with hats and flight bags and have gotten some very depressing emails about they lengths they've gone to to try to keep my membership current.
 
I don't think there was much the AOPA could do. The man decided to cut a deal and be done with it.
 
I am disappointed that the glider pilot and his lawyer agreed to not sue. I am not someone that endorses frivolous law suits but the Sheriff had no case and therefore didn't in my opinion have anything to barter with. If they had not agreed to waive their right to sue what would the sheriff have done? Someone, AOPA, FBI, DHS, someone needs to bring this pompous a$$ down. Nothing gets me in more of an uproar than the big guy holding his thumb on the little guy. If they had went ahead and took shots at the pilot and his glider would they have prosecuted the jerk?

Wake up America

Pitts Off
 
Let's all fly over this nuclear powerplant in a display of freedom of flight. :D
 
iflyforfun said:
After reading the story of the arrested glider pilot, I am completely and utterly disappointed by AOPA. I've threatened in the past to cancel my membership, but their complete failure to support a fellow pilot who was illegally and unconstitutionally abused by the system is the "straw that broke the camels back".

So, I contacted them and cancelled my auto-renewal and legal services plan. I then send them a long note that I expect MY advocacy group that I've been a member of for over a decade to support pilots such as Mr. Fleming. Their response is below just for entertainment.

"Thank you for contacting AOPA!

Our representatives are available Monday - Friday, 8:30 am - 6 pm (ET), and although we are often able to answer emails within a few hours, we are experiencing a backlog of several weeks[/B




Empasis added is mine. So they do absolutely nothing as a pilots rights are completely trampled but fortunately they have the resources to get back to me in a few weeks.

I know AOPA does some good. I know they are our best voice. I know that I should probably continue to support them ... but I won't. I wouldn't complain over an increase in fees, but I won't continue to support an organization that doesn't protect our most BASIC rights - they right to legally fly without being arrested.

I've threatened in the past, but I've now cancelled my auto-renewal and I WON'T renew unless they get heavily involved with Mr. Fleming and agressively right this wrong.
Click to expand...


If you go to the AOPA main page there is a story on the arrest and their actions with attorneys to protect pilots.
 
Free bird said:
If you go to the AOPA main page there is a story on the arrest and their actions with attorneys to protect pilots.
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Yes there is ... a story. The only thing AOPA was involved with was that the pilot made use of the Legal Plan he'd purchased through AOPA. This is such an egregious violation of the pilots civil rights that I EXPECT AOPA to fully support the pilot.

It's easy to throw stones at the guy ... "You should have stood up for your rights, why did you let them get away with this?". Easy for us to sit here and judge him. He spent a day in jail for doing nothing wrong. He engaged two attorneys - one his own, one through AOPA Legal Plan. He wanted the problem to go away and they gave him a way out. Of course that way out allowed for this horrible violation of rights to be covered up by the local authorities.

AOPA should take this case pro-bono. They should send an entire TEAM of AOPA attorneys down to discuss options with Mr. Fleming and encourage him, with their full backing, to take a stand against such behavior. Such a horrible violation of a pilots rights should be defended by our aviation advocate. Instead, they post a story on it and include a link to the Legal Services plan. They are practically encouraging further similar violations by letting this one slip by without a fight and encouraging all their members to purchase their Legal Plan.

I am beyond disgusted with AOPA. I try not to get so wound-up, but this case is such a blatant abuse of power and AOPA does NOTHING about it.
 
No doubt, AOPA should send a gang of lawyers to South Carolina to harass the poor guy until he agrees to sue everyone in who had anything to do with the sordid event despite his agreement not to. :rolleyes:
 
The only thing congress or any other party of authority pays any attention to is mass numbers. The blacks in the past century got every one's attention with a million man march. until we aviators/gun owners/_____ are willing and able to do that we are a no count in any authoritative group like congress or any sheriff's office.
 
Some people need to get out more. This is standard leo behavior, just ask a kid with a skateboard. So they finall picked on an obscure rich old white guy sport and now you want the world to change? Bit late for that.:goofy:
 
kkoran said:
No doubt, AOPA should send a gang of lawyers to South Carolina to harass the poor guy until he agrees to sue everyone in who had anything to do with the sordid event despite his agreement not to. :rolleyes:
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Not really what I said, I believe I said:

iflyforfun said:
They should send an entire TEAM of AOPA attorneys down to discuss options with Mr. Fleming and encourage him, with their full backing, to take a stand against such behavior.
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I would hardly call discussing options, encouraging and provide full backing as harassment. I would call it an appropriate response by an advocacy group that is supposed to protect our rights.
 
ClimbnSink said:
Some people need to get out more. This is standard leo behavior, just ask a kid with a skateboard. So they finall picked on an obscure rich old white guy sport and now you want the world to change? Bit late for that.:goofy:
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, I am afraid you are correct. So I support AOPA because it's the best we've got. Now what? Suggestions? I guess it is to just suck it up?

While I don't expect the world to change, I do hope that Mr. Fleming's fellow pilots get more than a bit indignant about how he was treated. I don't think what happened to Mr. Fleming is in any way acceptable and I think it should provoke much more disgust that what I see.
 
kkoran said:
No doubt, AOPA should send a gang of lawyers to South Carolina to harass the poor guy until he agrees to sue everyone in who had anything to do with the sordid event despite his agreement not to. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...


Hmmmmmm...

Seems Mr Fleming is now experiencing some sleeplessness and other "unforeseen" medical events;);) that were not apparent when he was forced to sign a hold harmless document by the DCSO so he could get out of jail....

I would think any decent lawyer could get that agreement overturned as it is crystal clear he was falsely arrested and jailed...

AOPA should be all over this like stink on dog crap...
 
The article lists the various contacts and demands AOPA has made in relation to this including the DHS:

The TSA responded in a letter that it takes these matters seriously—“Both in context of aircraft loitering in airspace around critical infrastructure as well as appropriateness of responses by various organizations at the Federal, State, and Local levels.” The agency said it would continue to work with organizations at all levels “by providing them with education on airspace matters via the local TSA Federal Security Directors and headquarters engagement. This will allow them to make informed and effective decisions on when and how best to execute a response based on their specific statutory and/or legal authorities.” AOPA continues to press the agency, along with the National Protection and Programs Directorate which deals with infrastructure protection, to explain what these education efforts entail; the association also has offered to assist in developing guidance and resources on general aviation-related issues.
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Not sure how much more they could/should do. One thing is sure....the fewer pilot members, the smaller their voice. I think this is cutting off your nose to spite your face.
 
I don't know that the AOPA isn't responding correctly. They published an article and it got our knickers in a wad.

Awareness is THE first step. I have pinged the TV station and local newspaper down in Darlington County...


[email protected],
[email protected]
[email protected]
By all means ping these folks at WBTW yourself...
 
iflyforfun said:
Unfortunately, I am afraid you are correct. So I support AOPA because it's the best we've got. Now what? Suggestions? I guess it is to just suck it up?

While I don't expect the world to change, I do hope that Mr. Fleming's fellow pilots get more than a bit indignant about how he was treated. I don't think what happened to Mr. Fleming is in any way acceptable and I think it should provoke much more disgust that what I see.
Click to expand...

Support freedom, even the ones you don't like. Those stupid lou, and slow motorcycles, jetskis, punk kids on skateboards, dont ever let even an idle call to regulate unpleasant things go unchallenged. Of course I think it too late.
 
Let's say AOPA gets involved and makes a big stink about this pilot not violating any airspace and his civil rights be violated.

DHS releases a statement, " We regret what happened to Mr. Fleming. In order to prevent that from happening in the future at this or other facilities we have petitioned the FAA to establish no-fly zones at all power generation facilities. We are confident that no fly zones will serve to protect Americas power generation infrastructure from airborne terrorist attack and provide pilots with the appropriately charted warning to avoid such facilities."

Less airspace, more gotchas, mission accomplished.
 
Alexb2000 said:
Let's say AOPA gets involved and makes a big stink about this pilot not violating any airspace and his civil rights be violated.

DHS releases a statement, " We regret what happened to Mr. Fleming. In order to prevent that from happening in the future at this or other facilities we have petitioned the FAA to establish no-fly zones at all power generation facilities. We are confident that no fly zones will serve to protect Americas power generation infrastructure from airborne terrorist attack and provide pilots with the appropriately charted warning to avoid such facilities."

Less airspace, more gotchas, mission accomplished.
Click to expand...

:yeahthat:

The typical response is always more regulation, not less.
 
If that ain't duress, what is?
N801BH said:
Hmmmmmm...

Seems Mr Fleming is now experiencing some sleeplessness and other "unforeseen" medical events;);) that were not apparent when he was forced to sign a hold harmless document by the DCSO so he could get out of jail....

I would think any decent lawyer could get that agreement overturned as it is crystal clear he was falsely arrested and jailed...

AOPA should be all over this like stink on dog crap...
Click to expand...
 
You just don't get it!!!, AOPA has more pressing issues like the wine club, sightseeing around the Country in the AOPA fleet of aircraft,etc,, You really think they have time for a measly old pilot who was threatened to be shot down, civil rights violated and thrown in the pokie by a few idiot cops? :goofy:

Please.... Now pass my Merlot:rofl:
 
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CT Arrow said:
You just don't get it!!!, AOPA has more pressing issues like the wine club, sightseeing around the Country in the AOPA fleet of aircraft,etc,, You really think they have time for a measly old pilot who was locked up, civil rights violated and thrown in the pokie by a few idiot cops? :goofy:

Please.... Now pass my Merlot:rofl:
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Be nice they are the only flying wine club we have, you must support them.:D
 
wabower said:
and I was agreeing.
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;)

I know... I was just adding clarity to my comments so when the DCSO subpoena's all of us for the trail, I don't want some imbred , bubba acting,donut eating prosecuter accusing me of witness tampering...:nonod::rolleyes::rofl:
 
iflyforfun said:
After reading the story of the arrested glider pilot, I am completely and utterly disappointed by AOPA. I..
Click to expand...


I find your outrage kind of odd. Do you really think for $50 that the AOPA should come charging out of Fredrick and jump uninvited right into the middle of any member's altercation with the cops? And by what system of intelligence gathering could the AOPA even have found out about the incident before the pilot was out of jail and the charges dropped?

The AOPA did publicize this incident once they found about it, and the AOPA legal plan helped the pilot out.


If you don't want to pay due that's fine. A good alternative would be to send your dues directly to the AOPA PAC, which is separate from the AOPA itself. That money will go only for direct lobbying in the interests of General Aviation.

Let's punish one of the two organizations that actively supports General Aviation because they didn't hurl a thunderbolt at the local Barney Fifes.

What could go wrong?
 
Things like this are why I let my membership lapse. I saw their report more as an advertisement for their legal services, even though it didn't seem to fight that much for pilots.

I too found the daily calls and emails begging me to come back interesting. They must have spent well over the $44 bucks my membership is worth of calls and their time.

I don't own a private jet or a new cirrus. Be interesting (both magazine and efforts) to the little guy, and I might become interested. This was a great opportunity to really fight for aviation. Oh well...
 
Alexb2000 said:
Let's say AOPA gets involved and makes a big stink about this pilot not violating any airspace and his civil rights be violated.

DHS releases a statement, " We regret what happened to Mr. Fleming. In order to prevent that from happening in the future at this or other facilities we have petitioned the FAA to establish no-fly zones at all power generation facilities. We are confident that no fly zones will serve to protect Americas power generation infrastructure from airborne terrorist attack and provide pilots with the appropriately charted warning to avoid such facilities."
Click to expand...

Something like that was attempted shortly after 9/11. I forget the details, but restrictions were placed on any flight within a specific distance and altitude above a nuke. This raised the question, "Where are the nukes?" The answer, "For security reasons we can't tell you." It was pointed out that knowing where they are was required information if they were to be avoided, and the restriction soon vanished.
 
roncachamp said:
Something like that was attempted shortly after 9/11. I forget the details, but restrictions were placed on any flight within a specific distance and altitude above a nuke. This raised the question, "Where are the nukes?" The answer, "For security reasons we can't tell you." It was pointed out that knowing where they are was required information if they were to be avoided, and the restriction soon vanished.
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Now that you say it, I remember that also. That's probably the only logical reason why they aren't charted already.

Excellent point.
 
I would think that any lawsuit or other action should be initiated by Mr. Fleming, if that's what he wants. Otherwise it's ambulance-chasing.
 
Alexb2000 said:
Now that you say it, I remember that also. That's probably the only logical reason why they aren't charted already.

Excellent point.
Click to expand...

Just stick to flying over the Dakotas and Montana and you have nothing to worry about.
 

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iflyforfun said:
Yes there is ... a story. The only thing AOPA was involved with was that the pilot made use of the Legal Plan he'd purchased through AOPA. This is such an egregious violation of the pilots civil rights that I EXPECT AOPA to fully support the pilot.

It's easy to throw stones at the guy ... "You should have stood up for your rights, why did you let them get away with this?". Easy for us to sit here and judge him. He spent a day in jail for doing nothing wrong. He engaged two attorneys - one his own, one through AOPA Legal Plan. He wanted the problem to go away and they gave him a way out. Of course that way out allowed for this horrible violation of rights to be covered up by the local authorities.

AOPA should take this case pro-bono. They should send an entire TEAM of AOPA attorneys down to discuss options with Mr. Fleming and encourage him, with their full backing, to take a stand against such behavior. Such a horrible violation of a pilots rights should be defended by our aviation advocate. Instead, they post a story on it and include a link to the Legal Services plan. They are practically encouraging further similar violations by letting this one slip by without a fight and encouraging all their members to purchase their Legal Plan.

I am beyond disgusted with AOPA. I try not to get so wound-up, but this case is such a blatant abuse of power and AOPA does NOTHING about it.
Click to expand...


Wait, what case should AOPA take pro bono? The criminal defense case? the Federal 1983 case? Look I think most any person pilot or not with any sense of justice is outraged by the actions of the Darlington County Sheriff but I think you need to take a step back for a second and evaluate the situation a bit closer.

1) The glider pilot resolved the criminal matter and of his own accord agreed not to sue the Sheriff or the county. That was his decision with the advice of counsel. Who the hell is anyone at AOPA to jump in and direct him to do otherwise?

2)Everyone here can beat their chests and say ah if that were me I'd never settle. "Make them try me for breaching the peace I'm gonna sue their ass off" The pilot apparently wanted this over with. My understanding is that he is not a US Citizen. Perhaps he was concerned regarding the immigration ramifications of a potential conviction. Has anyone thought of that? Also who is to say that a Darlington County Judge or Jury would not be made up of the same ingorant people from the sheriff's dept that demanded he land or they will shoot him down. Because lord knows there have never been any Narrow minded judges or half brained jurors that sit in judgement of others right?:skeptical: Did you read some of the initial comments from the Darlington County Citizenery supporting the sheriff? Like the one that said " Any idiot knows that a Nuclear power plant is a No Fly Zone"

3) AOPA has no individual standing in this matter but I suspect that had the glider pilot decided to fight AOPA would have at the very least filed an Amicus Brief in his support. I'd bet donations to his legal defense fund would have been substantial. AOPA bought it to the attention of all pilots and not in an insignficant manner. For heaven's sake as a result of AOPA publishing it the DCSO shut down their facebook page!

4) My guess is AOPA legal staff knows the way to resolve this matter is to quietly educate the DCSO. Face it the DCSO has publicly dug its heels in and they are never going to admit fault so what would you rather have them admit fault or just not do it again?
 
N801BH said:
Hmmmmmm...

Seems Mr Fleming is now experiencing some sleeplessness and other "unforeseen" medical events;);) that were not apparent when he was forced to sign a hold harmless document by the DCSO so he could get out of jail....

I would think any decent lawyer could get that agreement overturned as it is crystal clear he was falsely arrested and jailed...

AOPA should be all over this like stink on dog crap...
Click to expand...

That would probably just serve to get his medical yanked. Heh..

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD
 
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