AOPA auto-renewal annoyance

TangoWhiskey

TangoWhiskey

Touchdown! Greaser!
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3Green
I have my AOPA membership set for auto-renewal. It renews each January... ever since we set that up, we get a small debit / credit each August from them... they'll just debit the account for a couple bucks ($2.16 or so), then credit it back. They just did it again last week.

Member Services says they are just validating that the card is still good prior to the automatic renewal debit in January, but I think that's horsepucky. They could just try to bill my card when it's DUE, and notify me if it fails...

None of my other automatic-renewal accounts with other organizations or companies do anything like this. Last year we let that account get a little low (it's for paying bills only) and their $2.62 debit took the account minus, bounced a REAL bill, and cost us an NSF fee on top of it. I just about came unglued!!

Now, they've debited my account TWICE (and credited it back, of course!) in the months preceeding my renewal in January 2008.

Has anybody else noticed this behavior? Does it annoy you?! If it does, what can we do to get them to STOP this non-standard practice?
 
Any idea what the paperwork says? Are they allowed to make a charge like that without specific authorization from the cardholder?
 
kevin47881 said:
Send Phil an e-mail.
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Good call. Sent this to member services and Phil. Will let you know what they say...

I have a question for you. I am enrolled in automatic renewals of my membership. The membership fees are charged from my account in January of each year.

Therefore, WHY do you debit my account in August and again in December for a "small amount" (under $3) and then credit it right back? If, when enrolling for automatic renewal, I gave you permission to do this, please provide me with a copy of said agreement or terms...

I have automatic renewals of subscriptions with several organizations, and you're the only one that does this. Last year, it cost us a bounced check and an NSF fee, since we only transfer what we knowingly are spending to that account to pay the bills....

If your answer is that you need to 'validate' that the card is still active, that's baloney. You could simply bill the membership at the time specified, and notify me if it fails to clear. Further, since you have the card's expiration date on file, you can notify me in advance of January if you know the card on file won't be valid at the time the membership fee comes due.

I would appreciate your reply regarding this. With a "record 178,000 members now enrolled in automatic renewal" (http://www.aopa.org/membership/articles/070915renewal.html) I know I can't be the only member irritated by this unusual billing behavior.
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I'm enrolled in the auto renewal program, but I don't remember this happening. I suppose I should go back and double check now...
 
maybe you are checking online, I never see it on the paper bill Troy.

Im annoyed that I don't get a cap!
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
maybe you are checking online, I never see it on the paper bill Troy.

Im annoyed that I don't get a cap!
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Yes, you see it online, then it goes away... net transaction debit/credit is zero, so it doesn't end up on the paper statement. Shows as a 'pending' charge, then goes away...
 
TangoWhiskey said:
... they'll just debit the account for a couple bucks ($2.16 or so), then credit it back.
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Ugh. I just signed up for auto-renewal this time around to save a couple bucks and maybe get annoyed less. But now they're gonna take that couple bucks, give it back, take it, give it back...?

GMascelli said:
Stop that and all the annoying, nagging snail mail
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I agree on the snail mail. They send way too much of it. Happily, though, I was able to put an end to that by simply letting them know I wanted to opt out. I think I did that by e-mail, even. Since then, all I get is renewal notices and the CFI-related stuff that I don't mind. No junk mail! Amazing, eh? Send AOPA your request and the nagging snail mail will probably stop.
 
skyflyer8 said:
I agree on the snail mail. They send way too much of it. Happily, though, I was able to put an end to that by simply letting them know I wanted to opt out. I think I did that by e-mail, even. Since then, all I get is renewal notices and the CFI-related stuff that I don't mind. No junk mail! Amazing, eh? Send AOPA your request and the nagging snail mail will probably stop.
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That's good to know, Kate!

AOPA replied, twice, to my query. Here they are, in order:

Six months prior to automatically renewing your membership, we pre-validate the credit card we have on file for you. If for some reason there is a problem with the pre-validation process, you'll still have plenty of time to update the credit card expiration date or make any other changes before we actually charge the account for your membership dues. The $2.16 is a charge we run through to complete this pre-validation. It is reversed almost immediately and should not show up on your account statement. If it does, it should reverse the very next business day.

I am forwarding your comments to the program manager.

Please let me know if I can be of further assistance.

Thank you.

Joyce Kline
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Hi Mr. Whistman,

Phil Boyer forwarded your email to me asking that I share with you why we do the prevalidation of your credit card. But we want you to know that we're very sorry this has been a source of frustration for you.

Over the years, we've developed steps such as the prevalidation of the credit card based on statistical results that show it improves our retention rate of members in the Automatic Annual Renewal program. It serves as an early alert system if any one of a number of problems may exist with the card we have on file. Expiration date is actually just one situation it catches which -- as you note -- is much easier to catch without a prevalidation. But in today's world of people taking advantage of attractive credit card offers, we find they are more likely than ever to cancel a card for a better rate or a rebate or miles card, forgetting that they had the old one they just cancelled on file with us. That's a more common situation that prevalidation does help us catch so the member has time to get back to us with new information and their membership doesn't lapse.

Believe me, if these processes hadn't shown that they provided significant success in helping keep the membership strong, we wouldn't waste our time or resources doing them. And in the face of a declining pilot population, we try to do all we can to keep AOPA's voice strong by making it easy for members to retain their membership.

That said, I'm going to see if we can add an option that allows members to "opt out" of having their card pre-validated to avoid the rare situation like you've encountered. I'll follow up with you next week after I've done some investigation here as it seems like a good option to provide for our members who don't want the safety net of that early alert.

Thanks for giving us the opportunity to improve this process. I'll let you know what I find out.

Ed Thompson
Vice President, Member Services
AOPA
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Well, it's nice that it wasn't a canned response! They certainly actually read your letter and are thinking about it in a substantive way.

BTW, I got a call today offering a solution where I wouldn't need to renew each year. For a LOW one-time price of $2500, $2000 of which is a tax-deductible donation to the ASF (a worthy organization, IMHO), I'd get a LIFETIME membership in AOPA!

Of course, he said a couple of things that didn't make a lot of sense. First, he said that the ASF had distributed safety information to one million pilots this year. Uh, I don't think so. Second, he commented on how this could be a good deal with the way the AOPA membership rates have been going up. Um, I don't remember when they last went up. I think it was before I became a member in 2003.
 
gprellwitz said:
BTW, I got a call today offering a solution where I wouldn't need to renew each year. For a LOW one-time price of $2500, $2000 of which is a tax-deductible donation to the ASF (a worthy organization, IMHO), I'd get a LIFETIME membership in AOPA!
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Hmm... That investment will pay for itself in only 64 years. What a deal. :no:

Of course, he said a couple of things that didn't make a lot of sense. First, he said that the ASF had distributed safety information to one million pilots this year. Uh, I don't think so.
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Uhhh... Foreign pilots too maybe? I didn't get mine. :dunno:

Second, he commented on how this could be a good deal with the way the AOPA membership rates have been going up. Um, I don't remember when they last went up. I think it was before I became a member in 2003.
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I think they've stayed the same since Phil became president in 1990.

I also think AOPA likes to hire scam-artist telemarketers. :yes:
 
I wouldn't cut down the ASF. They do quite a bit, really. Who do you thinks pays for the travel and facilities for the safety seminars held all over? I've been to four in the last two years in Atlanta and have missed a few others. Some great information gets shared with the few who choose to attend. These days, FAA Safety keeps a record of attendance. Ya think that might be something in one's favor if they are ever involved in an incident?
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Hmm... That investment will pay for itself in only 64 years. What a deal. :no:
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Actually, $500/$39 = about 13 years. Actually not a bad deal. Remember that $2000 of it is a donation to ASF.

KennyFlys said:
I wouldn't cut down the ASF. They do quite a bit, really. Who do you thinks pays for the travel and facilities for the safety seminars held all over? I've been to four in the last two years in Atlanta and have missed a few others. Some great information gets shared with the few who choose to attend. These days, FAA Safety keeps a record of attendance. Ya think that might be something in one's favor if they are ever involved in an incident?
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Kenny, I don't know where you got anyone cutting down the ASF. I agree, they're a very good organization. That's why I termed them "a worthy organization" in my initial posting! And I have heard that yes, they will take attendance at seminars and the like into account. How much of a factor it would be, I don't know!
 
gprellwitz said:
Actually, $500/$39 = about 13 years. Actually not a bad deal. Remember that $2000 of it is a donation to ASF.

Kenny, I don't know where you got anyone cutting down the ASF. I agree, they're a very good organization. That's why I termed them "a worthy organization" in my initial posting! And I have heard that yes, they will take attendance at seminars and the like into account. How much of a factor it would be, I don't know!
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I'm going to the AOPA ASF "Top 5 Mistakes Pilots Make" seminar this Monday night in North Fort Worth... looking forward to it.
 
gprellwitz said:
Cool. Report back to us on which five they are, and which one(s) you've made!:rofl::yes:
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spending too much time on this board might be one!! :) OK, who's gonna add to the "top 10 stupid mistakes pilots make" list? I bet we could come up with a funny Letterman-style list. "Any traffic in the area, please advise" and taking off with the towbar attached would probably have to be in there somewhere.
 
gprellwitz said:
Actually, $500/$39 = about 13 years. Actually not a bad deal. Remember that $2000 of it is a donation to ASF.

Kenny, I don't know where you got anyone cutting down the ASF. I agree, they're a very good organization. That's why I termed them "a worthy organization" in my initial posting! And I have heard that yes, they will take attendance at seminars and the like into account. How much of a factor it would be, I don't know!
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No, that's how one appeared to be when it came to the two grand going to ASF for a lifetime membership. Whatever one may think of AOPA, they make a heck of a lot possible and most of it through ASF.
 
They LISTEN! Got this via email today. My hat is off to Ed. He followed up, just as promised, and without me bugging him. Great customer service from AOPA on this one:

On Mon, 11 Feb 2008 11:09:56 -0500, "Thompson, Ed" <Edward.Thompson@aopa.org> wrote:

Hi Troy,

Just wanted to let you know that we are going to move forward with allowing folks to opt out of the prevalidation process. So I'm holding onto your information and as soon as we have that mechanism in place, I'm going to make you our first member on that list.

Thanks for a great suggestion and for giving us the opportunity to make your experience with AOPA better.

- Ed
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skyflyer8 said:
I agree on the snail mail. They send way too much of it. Happily, though, I was able to put an end to that by simply letting them know I wanted to opt out. I think I did that by e-mail, even. Since then, all I get is renewal notices and the CFI-related stuff that I don't mind. No junk mail! Amazing, eh? Send AOPA your request and the nagging snail mail will probably stop.
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Interesting. I'll have to look into that. I'm getting sick of the weekly (sometimes more) "You're pre-qualified for AOPA Life Insurance". Did you simply send an email to customer service or ???
 
On the other hand... I just received an email from AOPA stating that the credit card they have on file for me didn't work. My wife's purse was stolen last fall and we were issued new cards... I forgot to change my AOPA info. They had a quick reference on how to change it, it took five minutes, and now I'm good to go.

I'm not one to defend AOPA very often, but their auto-renewal procedure probably saved me from missing a few months of membership. No problem for me.
 
And, it's done. Just got this from Ed at AOPA:

Hi Troy,

Hope all is well with you. Just wanted you to know that our programmers completed their work on the code that will keep you out of the prevalidation cycle and I added that code to your record, so you shouldn't see that kind of activity anymore. We'll simply attempt the charge during the first few days of your renewal month and will notify you if we have any problems getting the charge to go through.

Thanks for giving us the opportunity to improve this process for you and any other members who may find it bothersome, despite our best intentions.

- Ed
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Very impressed with their responsiveness and follow-through. I haven't "bugged" them at all about it since my original query, they've kept in contact with me. Nice job.
 
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