AOA

Man, that was freakin' painful to watch. Maybe strapping a 90YO guy into a ACES ejection seat, in a hi perf mil get isn't such a great plan.

Oh - I expect you'll get tons of 'expert' opinion now that AoA ins't all it's cracked up to be. That was my experience when I wrote in favor of it recently. But then again, most times people just like to pick arguments with me despite being wrong.

<edited to correct seat maker before someone else does a 'neener-neener'>
 
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The latest Eaa sport magazine has an article on the Icon A 5 ,they seem to fly the airplane with the AOPA as the primary reference . I guess chucks not putting one on his wheelchair.
 
docmirror said:
Man, that was freakin' painful to watch. Maybe strapping a 90YO guy into a ACES ejection seat, in a hi perf mil get isn't such a great plan.

Oh - I expect you'll get tons of 'expert' opinion now that AoA ins't all it's cracked up to be. That was my experience when I wrote in favor of it recently. But then again, most times people just like to pick arguments with me despite being wrong.

<edited to correct seat maker before someone else does a 'neener-neener'>
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I think the AOA is a useful instrument. My only beef is that there are some in the GA community that argue in favor of the FAA mandating installation of AOAs in all GA aircraft. I just don't think the cost benefit is there for such a fleet wide mandate.
 
Yaaa... real pilots don't need them dang turn/slip thingys either, or horizon indicators, or ROC, or even altitude... heck real pilots should just have a feel....
 
Fearless Tower said:
I think the AOA is a useful instrument. My only beef is that there are some in the GA community that argue in favor of the FAA mandating installation of AOAs in all GA aircraft. I just don't think the cost benefit is there for such a fleet wide mandate.
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For a new aircraft I'd have to think the expense is rather negligible (in aviation costs, anyway). That said, while I'm all in favor of encouraging installation, I'm not sure I'd advocate a fleet-wide mandate.
 
Brad Z said:
For a new aircraft I'd have to think the expense is rather negligible (in aviation costs, anyway). That said, while I'm all in favor of encouraging installation, I'm not sure I'd advocate a fleet-wide mandate.
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I can see that as being realistic.
 
I agree, he probably shouldn't be flying

Seriously though, not surprising given his flying background. In the F-16, I rarely if ever reference the AoA indicator, aside from using it to ensure I won't scrape the speedbrakes on the runway during the flare. However landing on the boat in a Hornet, you had better care what it has to say, at least if you ever want to land. Fly it fast/lower AoA and you will either bolter or very possibly 3 point the thing, which will generally trigger an overstress and a jack job which your maintainers won't be happy about (and often both of these things will happen at the same time). Fly it slow/higher AoA, and you risk real scary things happening around the fantail. So probably less of a concern for our USAF friends, though one thing it will do for any aircraft is give you a good max range and max endurance profile regardless of fuel load/gross weight.
 
We fly AOA on final in the Eagle. It's always been that way - there's a speed calculation you can do, but we never bother - just fly AOA.

We also use it during fighting all the time - really in debrief - to see what you are screwing up.
 
35 AoA said:
I agree, he probably shouldn't be flying

Seriously though, not surprising given his flying background. In the F-16, I rarely if ever reference the AoA indicator, aside from using it to ensure I won't scrape the speedbrakes on the runway during the flare. However landing on the boat in a Hornet, you had better care what it has to say, at least if you ever want to land. Fly it fast/lower AoA and you will either bolter or very possibly 3 point the thing, which will generally trigger an overstress and a jack job which your maintainers won't be happy about (and often both of these things will happen at the same time). Fly it slow/higher AoA, and you risk real scary things happening around the fantail. So probably less of a concern for our USAF friends, though one thing it will do for any aircraft is give you a good max range and max endurance profile regardless of fuel load/gross weight.
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I had never flown using an AOA until I had the opportunity last week in the E-2C sim. My friend gave me a quick rundown on how it worked and then turned me loose. Unfortunately, it didn't really sink in until I had done a couple a wave-offs on the day VMC pattern and then he took over and I was able to watch him do it.

Where I was busy going back and forth between looking down at the ASI and looking out at the flight deck while trying make the turn to final a mile or two out at 125 kts, he simply kept his eyes outside the whole time (AOA is on top of the glare shield in your field of vision) and made pitch adjustments for the AOA and power adjustments for the descent. His method was a lot easier than mine. That was my AOA 'aha' moment.
 
EvilEagle said:
We fly AOA on final in the Eagle. It's always been that way - there's a speed calculation you can do, but we never bother - just fly AOA.

We also use it during fighting all the time - really in debrief - to see what you are screwing up.
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It was that way in the F-4 also.
 
There is an AoA gauge on one of the C-206s I am currently doing bush flying with. I watched it a couple times during landing. It just confirmed what the seat of my pants was telling me, and also took my eyes off the beach while landing. I pretty much stop looking at the A/S on short final.

I am not arguing against anyone using the AoA gauge, there are good uses for it. And I agree that it could be worked in the panel of new planes. And if I was doing carrier landings I am sure I would use the AoA a lot more.
 
That comment by Chuck is an insight into the character flaw that was the biggest thing that excluded him from the space program.
While I understand what he is saying in the WWII fighter pilot world - you fly the plane by senses, vision and experience and if you spend time looking inside the cockpit you will likely lose the fight - you cannot fly a spacecraft by the seat of your pants. It has to be done by the numbers because what you feel, and especially what you don't feel, is so foreign to our little monkey brain that evolved in a 1G constant environment that you will do the wrong thing and swear it is right, right up to the instant the machine comes apart.
 
EvilEagle said:
We fly AOA on final in the Eagle. It's always been that way - there's a speed calculation you can do, but we never bother - just fly AOA.

We also use it during fighting all the time - really in debrief - to see what you are screwing up.
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Same......I guess I should say that in the Viper, it's not that I don't reference it, I just am less anal about holding a specific AoA......somewhere around 9-11 AoA is just fine for the pattern/approach turn/final, slowing to 12-13 AoA in the flare. It would probably surprise a number of folks, but I rarely look at my airspeed indicator during an approach once I am trimmed up on speed, just the AoA indicator/HUD bracket. In the -16, I'll allow it to be somewhere hovering around the top of the bracket in the HUD until I'm in the flare, but in the Hornet, I will trim it up and make sure it is exactly at 8.1 AoA (our on speed), at least when landing on the boat.
 
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35 AoA said:
Same......I guess I should say that in the Viper, I'm not as anal about it, though it is certainly still the thing I'm scanning in terms of airspeed. It would probably surprise a number of folks, but I rarely look at my airspeed indicator during an approach once I am trimmed up on speed, just the AoA indicator/HUD bracket. In the -16, I'll allow it to be somewhere hovering around the top of the bracket in the HUD until I'm in the flare, but in the Hornet, I will trim it up and make sure it is exactly at 8.1 AoA (our on speed), at least when landing on the boat.
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Is your AoA indicator part of the HUD on the Hornet?
 
Fearless Tower said:
Is your AoA indicator part of the HUD on the Hornet?
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We have a lighted traditional one on the left side of the HUD, which is useful to reference out of peripheral vision as you are generally looking mostly outside at the IFLOLS and deck centerline once you get inside 1/4 mile or so. However, there is a bracket in the HUD as well, which is useful outside of that range, during approaches, etc. In the Viper, and I'm assuming all USAF aircraft, the indexer lights are opposite colors, and the fast chevron in USN jets is the slow chevron in USAF jets (same true the other way around). Same with the bracket.......velocity vector/flight path marker above the bracket is slow in USN, but fast in USAF. So it takes some getting used to.
 
35 AoA said:
In the Viper, and I'm assuming all USAF aircraft, the indexer lights are opposite colors, and the fast chevron in USN jets is the slow chevron in USAF jets (same true the other way around). Same with the bracket.......velocity vector/flight path marker above the bracket is slow in USN, but fast in USAF. So it takes some getting used to.
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Why does that not surprise me...
 
After reading his autobiography, his comment is not surprising.
 
We don't have indexer lights in the Eagle, just a round dial next to the round dial A/S or a number "AOA 18" in the bottom corner of the HUD.
 
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