Anyone been to a military funeral lately?

Timbeck2

Timbeck2

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Timbeck2
I gave the eulogy at my 94 year old grandfather in law's funeral last Friday. It was a simple deal with an Air Force honor guard at the cemetery. I'm partial to the Air Force since I'm retired Air Force but something they did really made me scratch my nugget. There were two airmen who folded the flag and presented it to my father in law who is the oldest child. Then, one of the airmen walked over to the side about 50 feet and picked up a trumpet to play taps. It didn't sound quite right and after taking a closer look, the bell of the trumpet held a speaker from which taps was played through. Just wondering if anyone else has seen this.
 
Last one I was at was my grandfather's probably 2-3 years ago. He was a D-Day thru Battle of the Bulge when he got shot in the stomach vet. There was no speaker hidden in a trumpet. They did the full deal with 21 gun, flag folding, playing taps and a formation fly-by (not jet fighter but nice non-the-less). I can't remember which service did it though as he was Army in WWII and retired Air Force after Korea some time.
 
I've done funeral detail maybe half a dozen times. Some funerals have a real life trupeter, some a speaker in the trumpet itself and some a boom box with taps playing. Just depends on how many people and resources available for the particular funeral. Hate to say it but a lot depends on the "status" of the deceased as well.
 
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My wife's grandfather was a B-24 pilot. He wrote an unpublished "book" that consisted of a bunch of stories and was entitled: My Army Air Force Life. I picked my favorite story from his book where he saved the life of his entire crew to read during my speech. Short version: They took off, lost #3, turned back lost #2 and found a hole in the clouds to an airport. Flew through a temperature inversion which iced up the windows. They couldn't see and out one little hole in the ice, he noticed people running from a building, he kicked left rudder, the plane landing sideways shearing off the landing gear and #1 and #4 props and skidded to a halt. He got out and ran around to see if the crew was okay and all of them were standing there without a scratch. They had missed the control tower by 100'. He completed 35 missions and went home to a career in the airlines. The story I read was his 22nd mission.
 
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Here is his crew. Oak Mackey, top row, second from left.
clarke%20crew.jpg
 
Probably be more tasteful to just skip taps if no one can actually play it.
 
I was an NCOIC of honor guard At little rock for a year back in 2004. What you saw is normal. If nobody can play taps then there is a speaker in the bell like you saw. It really sounds good but some can tell its a fake. And those that do usually have a few words about how un professional it was. When I first started I did the trumpet duty. Stood a good ways back and once it was my turn I would hit the button on the way up to my and then pretend I was blowing in. We only had one girl who could play it and she was not always available. While yes it is fake it still does a good job. Could they take the time to teach someone else...sure, why they didn't I don't know. I did about 3 to 4 funerals a week for a year presenting flags after my crew did all the work. It takes a lot of practice to flow right and I suspect throwing in someone who has never played might be worse than a speaker playing taps. I really learned a lot that year and have been to more funerals than I care. But it was a great experience that I fussed about in the beginning that I grew to love doing.
 
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Velocity173 said:
Hate to say it but a lot depends on the "status" of the deceased as well.
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Im not so sure....if we didn't have a player available that was it and I have been in during O-5 retired funerals, down to airmen on active duty with a whole squadron around. If we didn't have a player we used the speaker in the horn. All we could do.

James331 said:
Probably be more tasteful to just skip taps if no one can actually play it.
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I thought it was tasteless at first but you realize it takes good talent from somebody who can play and those people aren't a dime a dozen. I mean here on base every night at 9pm taps plays over the loud speaker base wide. Should they not do that or find someone who can play taps to play every night? I realize a funeral is different but still.
 
simtech said:
Im not so sure....if we didn't have a player available that was it and I have been in during O-5 retired funerals, down to airmen on active duty with a whole squadron around. If we didn't have a player we used the speaker in the horn. All we could do.



I thought it was tasteless at first but you realize it takes good talent from somebody who can play and those people aren't a dime a dozen. I mean here on base every night at 9pm taps plays over the loud speaker base wide. Should they not do that or find someone who can play taps to play every night? I realize a funeral is different but still.
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I'm not referring to the bugler, I'm talking about all the all the services available to the deceased. It varies by the rank of the individual. We too had one bugler and he had limited availability. At the time, we were overwhelmed with funeral requests.
 
Velocity173 said:
I'm not referring to the bugler, I'm talking about all the all the services available to the deceased. It varies by the rank of the individual. We too had one bugler and he had limited availability. At the time, we were overwhelmed with funeral requests.
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For us it was like this...rank didn't matter unless it has changed since when I did it (2004-2005) or for different branch of service.

A veteran who was not retired..just served his time and got out received the flag fold, taps played and flag presented to next of kin.

AD or retired got full honors complete with pall bearers, taps, 21 gun salute, and presenting flag to next of kin.

So anybody out there, if you have a DD214 from your loved one and you are setting up funeral arrangements, give the DD214 to your funeral director and they will set up the military honors with the nearest servicing base.

Yeah its crazy the amount of details we had. We literally did 4 to 5 funerals a week, some times more, and add to that retirement ceremonies and other obligations like civil events and churches. We were spread thin and covered all of Arkansas and part of Tennessee.
 
I want to add that it wasn't bad. I just knew it wasn't "live" and saw the speaker in the trumpet. First time I've ever seen that at a military funeral which has only been 4.
 
It's like bosun pipes in the Navy. Getting harder and harder to find sailors who can do it and now half the ships out there don't even pipe any more.
 
simtech said:
For us it was like this...rank didn't matter unless it has changed since when I did it (2004-2005) or for different branch of service.

A veteran who was not retired..just served his time and got out received the flag fold, taps played and flag presented to next of kin.

AD or retired got full honors complete with pall bearers, taps, 21 gun salute, and presenting flag to next of kin.

So anybody out there, if you have a DD214 from your loved one and you are setting up funeral arrangements, give the DD214 to your funeral director and they will set up the military honors with the nearest servicing base.

Yeah its crazy the amount of details we had. We literally did 4 to 5 funerals a week, some times more, and add to that retirement ceremonies and other obligations like civil events and churches. We were spread thin and covered all of Arkansas and part of Tennessee.
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We had different "packages" we would send out depending on status. Might be more or less for the 21 gun. Sometimes functioned as pallbearers, other times not. Could be class As or dress blues. Don't think bugler was a consideration but it seemed the higher the rank, the better odds of getting a bugler. Embarrassing is hitting play on a boom box behind a hill.

We did it on a 3 week "bubble" in flight school awaiting our advanced aircraft course. Traveled all over Alabama and Florida and did our best to provide a respectable service for deceased vets. About lost my hearing in one ear when a dip**** accidentally shot off a blank during rifle stack, but overall, I enjoyed the experience.
 
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When my dad passed 2 years ago (WWII vet), we had his funeral in a small Colorado town, pretty rural area of the state. I wasn't sure we could do much of anything of a decent military funeral. The VFW was very helpful in getting me in touch with setting up a nice color guard, very respectful people, and an honest bugle salute.

The tears in the eyes of those folks as they did their service to us, told me they really cared in the service they were doing. I don't care if they can't play a bugle, their hearts were in the right place for our country, and those who have served before them. God bless our troops.
 
Glen will be along shortly to tell you how he played TAPS at his own funeral :)
 
simtech said:
I thought it was tasteless at first but you realize it takes good talent from somebody who can play and those people aren't a dime a dozen. I mean here on base every night at 9pm taps plays over the loud speaker base wide. Should they not do that or find someone who can play taps to play every night? I realize a funeral is different but still.
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I get that, but had that been my family or friend, just skipping the taps on tape would be a better option if you couldn't get a real player.

Heck, why not enlist the help of a local highschool or college music program? Might be a trumpet instead, but it isn't a complicated piece and I'm sure you could find a kid to do it, sure as heck bears a crappy speaker.
 
Timbeck2 said:
It didn't sound quite right and after taking a closer look, the bell of the trumpet held a speaker from which taps was played through. Just wondering if anyone else has seen this.
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Yes. At my grandfather's funeral.
 
Timbeck2 said:
I gave the eulogy at my 94 year old grandfather in law's funeral last Friday. It was a simple deal with an Air Force honor guard at the cemetery. I'm partial to the Air Force since I'm retired Air Force but something they did really made me scratch my nugget. There were two airmen who folded the flag and presented it to my father in law who is the oldest child. Then, one of the airmen walked over to the side about 50 feet and picked up a trumpet to play taps. It didn't sound quite right and after taking a closer look, the bell of the trumpet held a speaker from which taps was played through. Just wondering if anyone else has seen this.
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Yup. My father in law's funeral was like that. I suppose it avoids the Radar O'Reilly effect, but speaking as a musician, it looks terrible.
 
When my grandfather passed away, WWI vet, The service was handled by other WWI vets, including one that played the bugle. I was a little worried about these old guys carrying the casket. Even the color guard was made up of the old vets, and they all did very well considering all of the guys were in the late 70s and early 80s.
 
Timbeck2 said:
I gave the eulogy at my 94 year old grandfather in law's funeral last Friday. It was a simple deal with an Air Force honor guard at the cemetery. I'm partial to the Air Force since I'm retired Air Force but something they did really made me scratch my nugget. There were two airmen who folded the flag and presented it to my father in law who is the oldest child. Then, one of the airmen walked over to the side about 50 feet and picked up a trumpet to play taps. It didn't sound quite right and after taking a closer look, the bell of the trumpet held a speaker from which taps was played through. Just wondering if anyone else has seen this.
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Having once been a "relatively recent" base OIC of Air Force Honor Guard, the cone speaker inside the bugle is a change that was first made in 2002. For a veteran funeral, the base honor guard is supossed to provide a 2 man detail from the deceased's branch of service. The Bugle was added to the detail events not too long ago. Additionally, the 21 gun salute is "supossed" to provided to a vet by a local lions club... But either doesn't show up half the time, or there's some inconsistency in the ceremony.

Unfortunately when "bama" took over funding was grossly cut for Honor Guard, especially for vets, and thus you ended up getting pre-folded flags, other branch members, and a whole plethora of other issues. To this dAy.... I'm not certain with Trump now being in office if it's been corrected yet... But having performed nearly 500 funerals for active duty, retirees, and veterans on the traveling Ceremonial Flight.... I was and still am completely dismayed that funding was cut for this.

Knowing that your grandfather got the funeral he had well deserved brings a little hope to me that this is in process of being corrected.

To the bugle point, their is a cone speaker that is inserted inside the bugle, which contains a pre-recorded recording. It's actually supossed to sound pretty clear and be unnoticeable. The airman is supossed to check the batteries ahead of time, and do a play through prior to using during the detail. It's possible he/she did not and it sounded amiss. The bugler places the speaker in the bell of the bugle, and upon present arms, pushes a small button on the speaker cone, which carries a 5 second delay. During that delay the airman renders a 3 count flare of the bugle to his/ her mouth, and then the recording automatically plays and stops.

Hope this helps. I can provide a copy of the full ceremonial training guide if anyone's interested.


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Happens a lot.
There just aren't enough trumpet or bugle players in America to do all the funeral.
A close friend plays at 3-4 military funerals a week. If he was so inclined and able to teleport from place to place, he could do multiple funerals daily, 7 days a week.
 
The robotrumpet has been a bone of contention at Arlington as well. The military doesn't keep buglers or bands around like they used to.
 
As part of an honor guard with the local American Legion we only do about 12 to 18 funerals about a year, our bugle is electronic only but with no insert so can't be told apart from real by looking and sounds great, in my opinion. Batteries are checked before every use. Also have not had one person say a word about being fake in the 5 years I've been doing this. We all volunteer and get together to practice at least twice a year. As a veteran myself I find it personally satisfying paying tribute to these men and women.
 
James331 said:
I get that, but had that been my family or friend, just skipping the taps on tape would be a better option if you couldn't get a real player.

Heck, why not enlist the help of a local highschool or college music program? Might be a trumpet instead, but it isn't a complicated piece and I'm sure you could find a kid to do it, sure as heck bears a crappy speaker.
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I promise it sounds good and most would never know.

While I agree the trumpet or bugle is an easy peice it still takes alot of practice to play reliably and sound good. We spend every day not at a detail practicing. As far as a high schooler or college kid, it would be hard to grab a kid out of school for daily details that covered the whole state. Even a college kid plus this is the military we were not baby sitters. Too much liability if that were to happen.

At my funeral taps can be played with the speaker insert. It is crisp and clear and I'm cool with it. I understand if your not beleive me I do but it really is not that bad either.
 
simtech said:
While I agree the trumpet or bugle is an easy peice it still takes alot of practice to play reliably and sound good. We spend every day not at a detail practicing. As far as a high schooler or college kid, it would be hard to grab a kid out of school for daily details that covered the whole state. Even a college kid plus this is the military we were not baby sitters. Too much liability if that were to happen.
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One of the local sheriffs departments has an honor guard that provides services for some funerals. They used to have a high-schooler who would play taps for the services. Of course, they only do this a couple of times a year and stay local, so the logistics were quite manageable.
 
Last one I went to was my grandfather's back in the late-00's for Coast Guard. Bugle player was a guy who had to be every bit of 80yrs old, dressed in full uniform, and used a walker to get over to his post. He played the bugle, no recording, and while it wasn't 100% accurate, it was absolutely fantastic and much appreciated. We also had the military gun salute, in which they gave the emptied shells to the oldest child to be distributed to others as desired. I don't recall the details of the only other military funeral I went to (another grandfather)as it was back in the mid-90's, but I think it was largely the same for his Marine detail (same cemetery/funeral home in the same small town).
 
Buglers mess up, but such is live music. Even the one at JFK's funeral flubbed one of the notes. This is today's Army. The priorities are different. My grandfather went through the War as a member of a Navy band (Trumpet at the time, later he switched to French Horn as his wind started to fail him, but played in his American Legion post band pretty much up until he died). I have that trumpet (I took lessons but my Father played it better than I did and a neither of us were as good as gramps was).
 
My father served in Army Air Corps during WWII. At his funeral's graveside ceremony, my nephew surprised me by playing taps on the trumpet--very moving and something I will forever be grateful for. The Air Force two man detail missed the ceremony because of traffic but did fold a flag and present it to my eldest brother at the reception afterwards.
 
Yep, anything you can play on a bugle you can play on a trumpet (with various amount of difficulty). If you want the pitch right, you hold down the first two valves, bringing your B-flat trumpet into the same key as the G bugle. If you don't care for absolute pitch, you can play it with the fingers off the valve (you'll just be a step and a half sharp).
 
30+ year Air Force and Air Guard bandsman. We got hit pretty bad about 5 - 6 years ago, with 6 of the 11 Air Guard bands being decommissioned. Active duty lost a few bands as well, and some of the remaining bands were reduced in size. We send out a trumpeter when requests and personnel availability match up.

flyingron said:
The robotrumpet has been a bone of contention at Arlington as well. The military doesn't keep buglers or bands around like they used to.
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This is even worse than some celeb lip syncing the national anthem at an event.
 
The most recent military funeral I attended was my Grandfather's a couple of years ago. He was a WWII POW Purple Heart recipient Army Officer and was laid to rest at Arlington national cemetery in DC. No speaker in the bugle.


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Kevin16587 said:
The most recent military funeral I attended was my Grandfather's a couple of years ago. He was a WWII POW Purple Heart recipient Army Officer and was laid to rest at Arlington national cemetery in DC. No speaker in the bugle.


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Arlington probably has a different set of rules that would prevent the speaker in the bugle, given the notoriety/tradition of the location. Also a lot greater likelihood of finding a qualified bugler to play taps in DC vs bfe middle-America.


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Just ran across this timely thread. I buried my father last Thursday. Dad was the top turret gunner on his B-17. Dad was buried in the mountains in Western North Carolina. The local VFW (5202) did a perfect job of the honors. Yes, they were in the 70-80 year old range, but the bugler and rifle squad could stand toe to toe with the Old Girls at Arlington. The flag detail were Army SP4s and were sharp. Both held their salutes so long I was tempted to return them sitting in my suit. They did Dad proud. Clear skies and tailwinds, Dad.
 
Fearless Tower said:
It's like bosun pipes in the Navy. Getting harder and harder to find sailors who can do it and now half the ships out there don't even pipe any more.
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This. There's a shortage of buglers willing to volunteer for funerals in most places, and there's almost no pipers.

I was floored when my dad's friend, an old Navy radioman, showed up at the party dad requested (no funeral, but we did get his flag via mail) and blew the pipe. He taught himself for his Navy buds who had started passing. Showed up in his dress blues, too. True class.
 
Condolences for your loss. Nice to read a positive story in the midst of perceived offenses ...
 
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