Anybody written any iPhone apps?

CJones

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Has anybody here written any iPhone apps? I've got an itch to write an app that might be useful for a particular event coming up this summer, but I have absolutely no experience on writing their apps.

Any tips/advice/warnings before getting started? I'm somewhat experienced with VB.NET, C#, C, C++, Java, PHP. How does the iPhone environment compare to those languages?
 
Well, darn.. After reading through the iPhone SDK doc's and some quick Google'ing, it looks like you can't develop for iPhone on a Windows platform. I'm not motivated enough to deal with dual-boot or any of that crappy stuff (not to mention that Apple has made it illegal to do so).

Oh well.. Maybe I'll try to learn the Android stuff instead. :)
 
Has anybody here written any iPhone apps?

Not yet, though I'd sure like to. I'm still trying to come up with something that hasn't been done yet! Every time I think of something it seems that there are already three dozen other apps already on the store that do the same thing. :(

Any tips/advice/warnings before getting started? I'm somewhat experienced with VB.NET, C#, C, C++, Java, PHP. How does the iPhone environment compare to those languages?

The iPhone uses a special version of Mac OS X, and with both Macs and the iPhone you're gonna be using Objective C which is an outgrowth of C that does the same things C++ does in a slightly different way - Or at least that's how I understand it. So if you've done C and C++ you should have no problem.

Well, darn.. After reading through the iPhone SDK doc's and some quick Google'ing, it looks like you can't develop for iPhone on a Windows platform. I'm not motivated enough to deal with dual-boot or any of that crappy stuff (not to mention that Apple has made it illegal to do so).

That doesn't stop a lot of people. ;)

But yeah, since you're using the same dev tools as you would for programming Mac OS X, they're only on the Mac. Sorry! :dunno:
 
Well, darn.. After reading through the iPhone SDK doc's and some quick Google'ing, it looks like you can't develop for iPhone on a Windows platform. I'm not motivated enough to deal with dual-boot or any of that crappy stuff (not to mention that Apple has made it illegal to do so).

Yeah, that's what has stopped me. If I'm doing it for fun more than profit, there's no reason to monkey with all that. :dunno:

Oh well.. Maybe I'll try to learn the Android stuff instead. :)

Since you're already at least conversant in Java, I'd say that's the way to go.
 
I think it is a *HUGE* mistake for Apple to lock development into Mac OS. I've known several developers now that have considered iPhone development and as soon as they discovered that went straight to Android.

That said..I might buy an iPhone today...
 
I think it is a *HUGE* mistake for Apple to lock development into Mac OS. I've known several developers now that have considered iPhone development and as soon as they discovered that went straight to Android.

Seriously, there is already so much stuff on their app store, they're not missing out if some people skip it for that reason.

Example: I was talking with the girl at the FBO desk about needing to find an idea for an app to write. She suggested a program to calculate MPG on your car, and also remind you when to do oil changes, etc. So I searched the app store and there were THIRTY-EIGHT apps to do that. :eek: So, I don't think Apple's hurting for developers at all!
 
...I think it is a *HUGE* mistake for Apple to lock development into Mac OS....
I spent $600 on my first mac, a mac mini, a few months ago, for the purpose of doing iphone development. Except for the $100 to be an authorized iphone developer, there were no other expenses, all the development tools are free. The box takes up almost no space, fitting nicely under a stack of similarly sized crap (dsl modem, ethernet switches, etc). It shares a monitor and keyboard with an existing desktop, so nothing new needed to appear to clog up desk space, and I use VNC to get to it most of the time.

The way I look at it, if I'm not willing to sink $700 into something that's likely to absorb hundreds of hours of my time, then I'm probably not very serious about what I'm doing, and not likely to produce anything very significant.
-harry
 
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I spent $600 on my first mac, a mac mini, a few months ago, for the purpose of doing iphone development. Except for the $100 to be an authorized iphone developer, there were no other expenses, all the development tools are free. The box takes up almost no space, fitting nicely under a stack of similarly sized crap (dsl modem, ethernet switches, etc). It shares a monitor and keyboard with an existing desktop, so nothing new needed to appear to clog up desk space, and I use VNC to get to it most of the time.

The way I look at it, if I'm not willing to sink $700 into something that's likely to absorb hundreds of hours of my time, then I'm probably not very serious about what I'm doing, and not likely to produce anything very significant.
-harry

Common-sense, there.

Which reminds me: I really thought that the form-factor of the Mac Mini would take many corporate desktops by storm, but I appear to have been mistaken. Great design, IMHO.
 
The way I look at it, if I'm not willing to sink $700 into something that's likely to absorb hundreds of hours of my time, then I'm probably not very serious about what I'm doing, and not likely to produce anything very significant.
-harry

I take exception to that. I don't want to sink $600 in a machine that I will ONLY use for development of mostly free apps. I'm not trying to make a living off of it. I wanted to develop an app for RAGBRAI - an annual bike ride across the state of Iowa. After lurking on the RAGBRAI forum, it seemed that there was a small niche to be filled. Heck, I probably wouldn't even charge anything for the app once I got it going. "Hundreds of hours of my time"? Doubtful. I don't have that kind of 'extra' time. "not likely to produce anything very significant"? That depends on your measuring stick. Some may say that an app is only significant if it is usable by a large population and the developer is able to make large sums of money off of their app. I say that it is significant if someone finds it useful when they are stuck in Po-Dunk, Iowa and need to figure out where the vendor area is so they can get their flat tire fixed.

I think Apple has missed the boat on this one. They are blocking the market to 'freelance' developers that are willing and able to fill small niches without expectations of getting rich while doing so. They are missing out on a very substantial market. IMHO.
 
...
I think Apple has missed the boat on this one. They are blocking the market to 'freelance' developers that are willing and able to fill small niches without expectations of getting rich while doing so. They are missing out on a very substantial market. IMHO.

Well you could write for the Windows Mobile device nee Windows CE. That doesn't require money for a Windows PC or the $500+ Microsoft Visual Studio or anything. :rolleyes:


Oh right. Windows and Windows PCs are free since every human has one.
 
Well you could write for the Windows Mobile device nee Windows CE. That doesn't require money for a Windows PC or the $500+ Microsoft Visual Studio or anything. :rolleyes:


Oh right. Windows and Windows PCs are free since every human has one.

*cough* Android *cough*

Eclipse - Free
Android SDK - Free
A phone that will run Android - CHEAP. Hint - you don't have to use the G1.
 
I take exception to that. I don't want to sink $600 in a machine that I will ONLY use for development of mostly free apps.

...

I think Apple has missed the boat on this one. They are blocking the market to 'freelance' developers that are willing and able to fill small niches without expectations of getting rich while doing so. They are missing out on a very substantial market. IMHO.

Interesting, Chris - I could use your logic to make a case that Apple is absolutely correct in what they're doing.

You see, as has been pointed out, anyone who thinks they're going to make a bunch of money on their iPhone app is going to invest the small amount of money necessary to do so on the Mac. So, the only people who really "need" a Windows version of the dev tools are the ones who are going to write free, niche apps.

A suite of developer tools is probably the hardest possible thing to write for a computer, rivaled only by the operating systems themselves. Thus, to port XCode to Windows would require a huge investment on Apple's part, for little or no return (as they lose money on all the free apps).

All this, from a guy who in high school debate class managed to make his opponents' plans always degenerate into nuclear war. :D
 
Discussions like this always make me think about the relative success of open standards versus proprietary ones. On the whole, I think that open standards have historically been more successful; and the history of the Mac versus the PC exemplifies this.

Given their history, I'm rather surprised that Apple is insisting on such tight-fisted control of how apps are written for the iPhone. Some sort of certification of the end product might be a good idea to assure compatibility; but beyond this, I think Apple is making a mistake by tying developers' hands in this way.

My background is mainly in hardware, and I'm reminded of proprietary hardware standards (MicroChannel, Rambus, etc.) that fizzled out despite being technologically better than what was available at the time. ISA, for example, was horrible; but MCA was too expensive for third-party hardware companies to build for. So the world waited until PCI -- an open standard -- replaced the horrid ISA architecture.

I'm also reminded of OS/2, which (in my opinion) was far superior to Windows in terms of stability and reliability. When running in its native mode, OS/2 also was technologically advanced compared to Windows, in very fundamental ways, not the least of which was beating Windows to 32-bit computing.

But although IBM encouraged third-party developers to write for OS/2, they didn't make the platform itself exciting enough to attract much more than a yawn from developers on the cutting-edge. Stable and powerful as it was, OS/2's capabilities were limited to what IBM thought a business OS should do. Consequently, it was a great platform for the SDA that existed at the time, but it not for the next generation of graphic manipulation software, multimedia software, games, etc. Windows embraced that world. OS/2 didn't.

Perhaps worse yet, OS/2 could run most DOS programs and many Windows SDA programs in something called Win-OS/2 mode, so developers didn't bother writing very much for native OS/2 mode. They wrote first for the dominant Windows market, and then tweaked a bit, if necessary, for OS/2 almost as an afterthought. So from an end user's perspective, why bother buying OS/2 at all if most of the available applications were native Windows apps?

Back to the near-past: I looked into the iPhone a while ago when my contract with Verizon was winding down, but nothing about it impressed me enough to warrant switching over to AT&T (not to mention coughing up the bucks for the phone itself). I'd had AT&T service about a decade ago and was less-than-thrilled with their service. The essential problem was signal availability, which was lacking in the areas in which I worked.

I suppose AT&T's network has improved a great deal since then, but I know for a fact that since switching to Verizon about eight years ago, I've rarely been without a usable signal. It would take a lot more than a pretty phone for me to switch back to AT&T.

One thing that may have persuaded me to take the plunge would have been killer apps. Alas, when I checked out the "official" stuff that was available for the iPhone, I just yawned. Nothing new or exciting there. Same old stuff. Different wrapper.

What it boils down to for me is that the iPhone is an impressive -- and pricey -- piece of hardware running a stable OS, but whose manufacturer is limiting its potential by exercising unreasonable control over the process by which software is developed for the machine. As long as the end result is stable and compatible, what difference does it make what platform the developer used to produce it? The more good apps, the more useful the appliance, regardless of what tools developers used to create the apps.

That's my opinion, anyway, and it's worth exactly what you paid for it.

-Rich
 
You see, as has been pointed out, anyone who thinks they're going to make a bunch of money on their iPhone app is going to invest the small amount of money necessary to do so on the Mac. So, the only people who really "need" a Windows version of the dev tools are the ones who are going to write free, niche apps.

OK.. I agree with you so far.

A suite of developer tools is probably the hardest possible thing to write for a computer, rivaled only by the operating systems themselves. Thus, to port XCode to Windows would require a huge investment on Apple's part, for little or no return (as they lose money on all the free apps).

I disagree. I think the net ROI on providing Windows-compatible development tools would be astounding. I'm not looking for something as hefty as MS Visual Studio Pro or anything like that, I just want a simple notepad-ish or Visual C# Express type of tool, along with some sort of runtime environment to test the app. Linux (open source) has a MS capable runtime environment, so why can't high-and-mighty Apple provide the same tools?

While I agree that Apple won't be making money on my simple free niche app, the overall usability of their phone increases, which helps convert the millions of fence-riders over to the iPhone world. If there are 20,000 riders on RAGBRAI again this year, and 2,000 of them download my free app to their iPhone right off the bat, and 750 others see the 'usefulness' of the app and decide to get off the fence and get an iPhone when they get home, that is 750 more iPhones that have joined the market just becuase of my simple and FREE niche application. Multiply that by the thousands of free niche apps that would suddenly appear, the level of usefulness and amount of 'converts' that join the iPhone world, would more than pay for the cost of providing the development tools.
 
What it boils down to for me is that the iPhone is an impressive -- and pricey -- piece of hardware running a stable OS, but whose manufacturer is limiting its potential by exercising unreasonable control over the process by which software is developed for the machine. As long as the end result is stable and compatible, what difference does it make what platform the developer used to produce it? The more good apps, the more useful the appliance, regardless of what tools developers used to create the apps.

That's my opinion, anyway, and it's worth exactly what you paid for it.

-Rich

I agree completely.
 
...Back to the near-past: I looked into the iPhone a while ago when my contract with Verizon was winding down, but nothing about it impressed me enough to warrant switching over to AT&T (not to mention coughing up the bucks for the phone itself). I'd had AT&T service about a decade ago and was less-than-thrilled with their service. The essential problem was signal availability, which was lacking in the areas in which I worked.

I suppose AT&T's network has improved a great deal since then, but I know for a fact that since switching to Verizon about eight years ago, I've rarely been without a usable signal. It would take a lot more than a pretty phone for me to switch back to AT&T.
...

A decade ago? Not only is the current AT&T Wireless not the same network, it's not the same company in any form.

The 10 year old AT&T wireless (cell network) was sold when the old AT&T got out of that business entirely. Many regions were sold to Cellular One which became Cingular which is the current AT&T Wireless but the current AT&T just happens to have that bought, among others, all of Cingular, and the old AT&T a few years ago and used that name for the new company.

That original cell network was abandoned with much screaming and nashing of teeth of the original customers who were forced to convert to Cingular. Sooo...the company and the network with service you hated 10 years ago doesn't even exist any more.

I know. You need a flow chart to track all that.
 
"Hundreds of hours of my time"? Doubtful.
What's your estimate for how much time it will take to learn Objective C, the Apple frameworks, the development tools, the process for deploying via the App Store, and then developing your free, but highly compelling, application?

How many hours of time will you devote to that activity? How much is that time worth?

I can only speak for myself, but the dollar value of the time I've sunk into learning the specifics of the iphone development environment far exceeds the direct expenses of buying a low-end build platform. It would "sure be nice" to me if Microsoft and Apple would provide their development tools for me, for free, on my platform of choice (Linux, these days), but the idea that the absence of this courtesy is a deal-killer would never occur to me.

By the way, as for developing for Android, as far as I can tell, approximately nobody has an Android phone, including me, and I can't think of a reason to predict that changing significantly in the near future, so I wouldn't even be developing for myself, much less a significant audience. There's a name for that kind of activity, and if you do it enough, you'll grow hair on your keyboard.
-harry
 
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What's your estimate for how much time it will take to learn Objective C, the Apple frameworks, the development tools, the process for deploying via the App Store, and then developing your free, but highly compelling, application?

How many hours of time will you devote to that activity? How much is that time worth?
Agree, Developing a good iPhone or Android app is generally more complex and time consuming then most think.
 
I disagree. I think the net ROI on providing Windows-compatible development tools would be astounding. I'm not looking for something as hefty as MS Visual Studio Pro or anything like that, I just want a simple notepad-ish or Visual C# Express type of tool, along with some sort of runtime environment to test the app.

Hmmm. Their tools are extremely mature, and I'm not sure it's something you could even do with a straight-up text environment.

I'll install the dev tools before the next PoA fly-in so I can show 'em to you. That was one of the things I wanted to fill up my 500gb hard drive with anyway. ;)

Linux (open source) has a MS capable runtime environment, so why can't high-and-mighty Apple provide the same tools?

I'm sure they *could* but it's a huge effort for fairly small return.

While I agree that Apple won't be making money on my simple free niche app, the overall usability of their phone increases, which helps convert the millions of fence-riders over to the iPhone world.

I guess I just don't think there are *that* many fence-sitters - It seems to me like people either love it or hate it, and a couple of niche apps probably wouldn't make a difference to either.

That said, I *do* think it'd be nice to have more niche apps, but since the people who are charging money are making HUGE money (enough to buy a slew of Macs), and the people who don't charge anything don't make Apple any money either...

Sure, they could *maybe* sell a few more phones, but I'm not sure if it'd be significant. I'm sure if they decide that it would be significant, they'll have the dev tools out for Windows in short order.
 
On the whole, I think that open standards have historically been more successful; and the history of the Mac versus the PC exemplifies this.

Huh? Neither one of those is "open."

Given their history, I'm rather surprised that Apple is insisting on such tight-fisted control of how apps are written for the iPhone. Some sort of certification of the end product might be a good idea to assure compatibility;

I think the larger reason is to assure compatibility with their carrier contracts - For example, NetShare is one of the apps that got booted off the store, because it shared the cellular data connection through the wifi to allow tethering of one or more computers. That's specifically disallowed in AT&T's contracts (and pretty much everyone else's too) so they had to ditch it.

Sooner or later, the AT&T contract will be up and I bet there'll be a lot more leniency at that point.

but beyond this, I think Apple is making a mistake by tying developers' hands in this way.

Tying developer's hands how? They've clearly spelled out what will not be allowed in the app store, and anyone who develops such apps anyway is foolish.

There is some stuff I wish you could do - For example, while I really like the built-in alarm clock (part of the Clock app) for the most part, there are some improvements that could be made. However, a 3rd-party app will also lose some functionality - The built-in alarm clock will wake the phone or even power it on from being completely shut off. Until some of the controls are relaxed, it won't be possible for a 3rd-party app to do that.

I would expect that as time goes on, we'll see those controls being relaxed. Apple is trying to ensure a good user experience, and an app that misbehaves can cause all kinds of headaches. While I'm not a big fan of those policies, I can see why they're there.

I'd had AT&T service about a decade ago and was less-than-thrilled with their service. The essential problem was signal availability, which was lacking in the areas in which I worked.

They've improved greatly, then - I switched from Verizon to AT&T in 06 and there was a noticeable improvement in coverage (and since I was traveling nationwide at the time, that phenomenon is not localized). Really, both VZ and AT&T have bigger, better networks than anyone else but like I said, there was a noticeable improvement when I switched to AT&T.

One thing that may have persuaded me to take the plunge would have been killer apps. Alas, when I checked out the "official" stuff that was available for the iPhone, I just yawned. Nothing new or exciting there. Same old stuff. Different wrapper.

I'm curious when this was that you looked? Before the app store, I could agree. With the app store, there's darn near anything you could possibly want.

manufacturer is limiting its potential by exercising unreasonable control over the process by which software is developed for the machine.

I still don't quite understand what you mean by this... That you have to develop on the Mac?
 
Huh? Neither one of those is "open."

I was referring to the relative openness of the PC hardware platform, not of Windows.

I think the larger reason is to assure compatibility with their carrier contracts - For example, NetShare is one of the apps that got booted off the store, because it shared the cellular data connection through the wifi to allow tethering of one or more computers. That's specifically disallowed in AT&T's contracts (and pretty much everyone else's too) so they had to ditch it.

Of course.

Sooner or later, the AT&T contract will be up and I bet there'll be a lot more leniency at that point.

....

They've improved greatly, then - I switched from Verizon to AT&T in 06 and there was a noticeable improvement in coverage (and since I was traveling nationwide at the time, that phenomenon is not localized). Really, both VZ and AT&T have bigger, better networks than anyone else but like I said, there was a noticeable improvement when I switched to AT&T.

I have nothing against AT&T. The last time I dealt with them, however, the service was less-than-wonderful. Now it's clearly better, although I knew nothing specific about the changes in the network until today. But then again, neither do most other potential customers, I would suspect. In any case, my point, simply stated, is that people who are happy with their present providers are less likely to switch to another absent some compelling feature. I didn't find any when I looked at the iPhone.

Tying developer's hands how? They've clearly spelled out what will not be allowed in the app store, and anyone who develops such apps anyway is foolish.

....

I still don't quite understand what you mean by this... That you have to develop on the Mac?

Yes, by requiring that development be done on the Mac. I don't get the need for exerting that much control over the process, as long as the result meets the requirements. Windows is far from an open system, but even Microsoft doesn't require that you use Windows to develop Windows apps.

Furthermore, why should what can be installed be limited to what is available in Apple's store? If I paid for and own the blasted thing, why should I be limited to also buying software through Apple? Do similar restrictions apply to Palm or Windows-based PDA phones? (My question is not rhetorical. I've never had any experience with either one.)

Even if one concedes that tighter quality controls are needed on a cell phone (it is a radio transceiver, after all), that need could be satisfied by a review / certification process of the finished software product. Requiring that the developer use only Apple's tools seems to me more than can be justified in the name of quality. Are their tools are so advanced that it's impossible to develop crappy applications when using them?

There is some stuff I wish you could do - For example, while I really like the built-in alarm clock (part of the Clock app) for the most part, there are some improvements that could be made. However, a 3rd-party app will also lose some functionality - The built-in alarm clock will wake the phone or even power it on from being completely shut off. Until some of the controls are relaxed, it won't be possible for a 3rd-party app to do that.

I would expect that as time goes on, we'll see those controls being relaxed. Apple is trying to ensure a good user experience, and an app that misbehaves can cause all kinds of headaches. While I'm not a big fan of those policies, I can see why they're there.

I defer to you, as I have no direct experience with the machine.

I'm curious when this was that you looked? Before the app store, I could agree. With the app store, there's darn near anything you could possibly want.

Shortly (as in a few weeks, or maybe a month or so) after the first version of the iPhone was released. My contract with Verizon was near its end, and I was debating other options, including the iPhone. I also considered the Helios Ocean, which would have saved me a few bucks a month; and various phones / PDAs from T-Mobile.

In the end, I stayed with Verizon because nothing about the iPhone (nor the Ocean, nor anything from T-Mobile, for that matter) was compelling enough to persuade me to switch from a provider whose service had always worked well for me.

The other factor was that as my contract's expiration drew nigh, Verizon's offers got more and more generous, until I wound up getting the LG Voyager for free after rebate. No, the Voyager has no third-party app support (BitPim notwithstanding); and no, its built-on apps aren't anything spectacular (although they are functional). But the Voyager didn't cost me anything other than renewing a contract that I was inclined to renew, anyway.

-Rich
 
Windows is far from an open system, but even Microsoft doesn't require that you use Windows to develop Windows apps.

What other platforms does Microsoft release their development tools on? :dunno: I'm pretty sure it's "nothing but Windows." The fact that someone else may have made some tools to develop Win apps on another platform is pretty irrelevant - That could be done with Macs or iPhones too.

Furthermore, why should what can be installed be limited to what is available in Apple's store? If I paid for and own the blasted thing, why should I be limited to also buying software through Apple?

I think their fear is that viruses and trojans could be spread this way. The advantage of them controlling the store is that you don't have to worry about the software you get there, it's been vetted.

Even if one concedes that tighter quality controls are needed on a cell phone (it is a radio transceiver, after all), that need could be satisfied by a review / certification process of the finished software product.

Which is basically exactly what happens.

Requiring that the developer use only Apple's tools seems to me more than can be justified in the name of quality. Are their tools are so advanced that it's impossible to develop crappy applications when using them?

I don't think there's any such requirement - But I think the only other dev tools for the iPhone are the ones that the "jailbreak" folks came up with.
 
What's your estimate for how much time it will take to learn Objective C, the Apple frameworks, the development tools, the process for deploying via the App Store, and then developing your free, but highly compelling, application?

How many hours of time will you devote to that activity? How much is that time worth?

I can only speak for myself, but the dollar value of the time I've sunk into learning the specifics of the iphone development environment far exceeds the direct expenses of buying a low-end build platform. It would "sure be nice" to me if Microsoft and Apple would provide their development tools for me, for free, on my platform of choice (Linux, these days), but the idea that the absence of this courtesy is a deal-killer would never occur to me.

By the way, as for developing for Android, as far as I can tell, approximately nobody has an Android phone, including me, and I can't think of a reason to predict that changing significantly in the near future, so I wouldn't even be developing for myself, much less a significant audience. There's a name for that kind of activity, and if you do it enough, you'll grow hair on your keyboard.
-harry

You're probably right about the time requirements. After sitting and thinking about having to learn the language/tools/etc., I'm sure the hours would total up into the hundreds. It's hard for me to quantify time easily because I never have the opportunity to sit and focus on one thing for more than a few hours at a time (if I'm lucky). At this point in my life, the extra experience of learning a new language/tool set would be my 'reimbursement' for developing a free iPhone app. Perhaps that would lead to more worldly based monetary reimbursements later in life, but I was honestly just looking at designing an app for the 'fun' of it.

I'm glad you, and the other more full-time iPhone app developers, are willing and able to afford the hardware necessary to develop the apps as well as devoted enough to do so. Unfortunately for me at this time in my life, I don't have the extra cash laying around for me to throw into a 'learning it for the heck of it' type of project. Maybe in the future... My personal opinion on the matter still remains that Apple is losing out on a large realm of would-be developers like myself, who would get started via a 'learn for the heck of it' project, by limiting their dev tools to Mac based OS's.

I wouldn't mind seeing some sort of iPhone "Lite" type of development tool. Maybe some sort of 'reduced capability' for the apps developed on the 'Lite' platform, just so developers could get their feet wet and get hooked enough to go for the full-fledged Mac box for developing full-featured apps.

As for Android, I will defer to others that are more educated in the area. Honestly, I haven't had the time to look into their dev environment. I will agree, though, that it appears to be much slower than expected at gaining speed within the market.
 
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