Any POAers in the Area Please Advise

t0r0nad0

Pattern Altitude
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Apr 11, 2007
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Houston, TX
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PJ Gustafson
I'll be in San Diego from March 6-9 to present at a trade show. I'll be with several coworkers, so I'm not sure yet what kind of spare time I'll have. However, I'd love to get together for a drink or flight with any of you who are in the area...
 
If you have sufficient free time to fly, I highly recommend First Flight over at Brown Muni (by the border)... I checked out in their Champ last summer when I was out there but they also have a C172, a C182, and a Grumman (Tiger?) available for rent.
Nice folks, great rates, and a very easy class D environment.
 
I might have to look into that... thanks. If they have a good rate on their 182, I might try to get my HP endorsement. Too bad it's not a 182RG, I wouldn't mind getting the HP/Comp knocked out in one fell swoop.
 
Wow, they do have some good rates! Do you remember if they're wet or dry?
 
Yeah, me too... that's too bad. I'm sure we'll have another opportunity.
 
Wow, they do have some good rates! Do you remember if they're wet or dry?
Wet. And the planes aren't junk- I flew the 172 and it was nice. Even the old Champ was very serviceable. Fairly corrosion-free environment there, although the UV and the dust are a problem sometimes, I'd imagine.
And they do their maintenance in-house; I think the owner is also the head wrench-slinger. There's a skydiving school next door, and down at the east end of the field there's a bar&grill and a friendly EAA chapter clubhouse.

I never did recommend destinations... only flew a couple of Champ-sized XCs, but I liked the scenery en route to Chino, and the museum there is awesome. Transient parking is right near the museum and the diner (Flo's), which has some good food and nice "neighborhood diner" ambience.

Also went up to Borrego Springs, another nice trip. Friendly folks, the nicest FBO bathrooms I've ever seen, and I think there's a restaurant of some kind there, as well.

Also be sure to shoot the VFR corridor over the city- it's pretty roomy, and what a view!!

Have fun- hope you get to do some flying; it's real purty country.
 
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I booked the Grumman and a CFI for an hour or so on Sat to do a VFR tour of the area. I'm looking forward to some beautiful scenery in SoCal! Trip report to follow here after my trip.
 
I booked the Grumman and a CFI for an hour or so on Sat to do a VFR tour of the area. I'm looking forward to some beautiful scenery in SoCal! Trip report to follow here after my trip.
Cool. Who are you flying with (or do you know yet)?
You might want to also try the Champ, just for the hell of it... it's too cheap to pass up, even if you aren't looking to do the tailwheel add-on. Lots of fun for the buck! :D
 
I don't know who I'm with, the guy I talked to just said it was an older guy. I asked about the Champ, but I would be too heavy for it with the instructor too... Yet even more motivation for me to lose some weight. I would like to get the tw add-on eventually though so that I can finally learn what those two things by my feet are really used for.
 
I don't know who I'm with, the guy I talked to just said it was an older guy. I asked about the Champ, but I would be too heavy for it with the instructor too... Yet even more motivation for me to lose some weight. I would like to get the tw add-on eventually though so that I can finally learn what those two things by my feet are really used for.

Oh yeah, the weight thing... the Champ is easier to get in and out of than a 120/140 or a Cub, but it is quite limited in how much meat it can carry with a full (13-gal) tank.

Have fun anyway with your little training-wheel airplane...:D
Actually the Tiger looks like a lot of fun... if I'd had more time out there I would have tried it. I think your CFI is the head honcho there (forget his name)... he seems pretty well-seasoned and will probably teach you a lot while letting you have lots of fun.

Be sure to tell them I ( Sean) said hi... especially Bob, who checked me out in the Champ. If they don't know who you mean, just tell them "the guy who almost killed Bob groundlooping after his first good wheel landing, then busted the right brake cable at French Valley"... LOL
 
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Hey PJ,

Are you still in SD? I was thinking about maybe flying down there on Sunday...

-Felix
 
Hey guys, I'm still in SD. I'll be doing my flight tomorrow afternoon. Sean, I'll tell them you said hi. Felix, what time on Sunday? My human mailing tube leaves at about 11:30a.
 
Hey guys, I'm still in SD. I'll be doing my flight tomorrow afternoon. Sean, I'll tell them you said hi. Felix, what time on Sunday? My human mailing tube leaves at about 11:30a.
That's probably a bit too early for me. I'm not going to even leave here until 10am or so...definitely another time, though!

-Felix
 
So, I did my flight yesterday, but all didn't quite go as planned.

First of all, I missed my trolley transfer to get down there, so I had to wait for the next one. By the time all was said and done, I didn't get to the airport until almost 4pm. I met CFI Steve, who got the binder and keys for the Grumman Lynx and took me out to it. We did the preflight and pulled it out of its spot. We climbed in, primed it, and hit the starter... the thing cranked, but didn't start. We kept trying, then waiting, then trying again, until the battery finally wore down. He jumped out and pulled off the cowling and one of the mechanics came out to take a look. They poked around and said that it looked like it was "flinging oil". This was strange as when I checked the oil, it was at an acceptable level. The mechanic offered to give us a jump, but I flat-out said, "If this thing is flinging oil, I'm not flying it." The CFI said he couldn't blame me.

So, we pushed the Grumman back into its parking space and tied it down, then we preflighted the 182 (since Steve wasn't a taildragger pilot we couldn't take the Champ) and pulled it out of its spot. It started up right away, so we taxied out to the runway, did our runup, and took off into the setting sun. We headed west until we got to the shoreline before turning north to follow the VFR corridor through the complex SAN class B airspace. We climbed to 4500' as we followed the shoreline and overflew the North Island NAS and KSAN. Just north of Montgomery Field we turned to the east and descended to 3500'. We passed south of the Miramar NAS (and I swear I faintly heard Kenny Loggins music in the background) and south of Gillespie Field, where according to my instructor there is a very good restaurant.

We turned to the south and passed just east of San Miguel mountain, where we picked up the ATIS again and called the tower for some touch & goes. We had a right base entry to runway 26R and I brought it in. My first landing was a little bit hard, but it wasn't bad considering that my CFI didn't coach me at all as to what power settings or airspeeds I was supposed to have on my approach. He raised the flaps and opened the cowl flaps for me, while I pushed in the carb heat, verified that mixture and prop were fully in, and pushed the throttle forward. The 230 horses in front of me roared to life, and I barrelled down the runway until I reached rotation speed. I then came around the pattern again and made a second full-flap landing, after asking Steve for a little more guidance this time, reminding him that I've never flown this type of plane before. He told me to just keep it above 75mph (yes, this plane was so old the ASI was in MPH instead of KTS) and not to flare as high as I did last time. This landing was better, but still a little hard. I kept a little power in until the flare, which seemed to help. Carb heat in, flaps up, throttle forward, off I go again. This time Steve asked if I wanted to do a no-flap landing. I said sure, why the hell not? So he told me to maintain 90mph all the way around. While on downwind, tower pointed out traffic on final to my runway and additional traffic on a right base to the parallel runway. I called both traffic in sight, and continued my pattern. I came in a bit high, slipped it down while maintaining 90mph, flared at the proper height as my airspeed bled off, the stall warning horn came on, and GREASER! My best landing yet!

Throttle in and off I went again. I told Steve that I wanted to do another no-flap landing and tower asked us to make an early crosswind. I turned crosswind and told tower that this would be a full stop. Steve then keyed the mic and asked for a short approach and long landing (this is a 7000' runway and the flight school is way at the departure end). We were approved, so we made our base abeam the numbers and made our final. I slipped it down again and made another greaser just past taxiway B (for those of you following along on the diagram) and rolled out to the end. My landings are so much better without flaps that I might just stop using them all together! (Okay, maybe not... :D) We then taxied back to the flight school, shut her down, and pushed her back into her parking space.

So, I now have .9 hours of high performance time under my belt. I really like the 182, and I'm eager to get checked out in one when I get back home. I just need to find one at an acceptable rate. Since they had the trouble with the Grumman (which I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt and say it was just a fluke occurrence and not indicative of their level of maintenance) they knocked $5 off the hourly rate for the 182. Still, at a full price of $105/hr wet, you can't find a cheaper 182 anywhere, even if this one is older than dirt. The thing accelerated quickly and climbed like a bat out of hell. Overall, this seemed like a great operation and I'd recommend people come here to rent if they're in the area. You can't beat the rates anywhere. My CFI didn't do much in the way of coaching, but once again, I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt and say that maybe he interpreted me as being competent enough to not need it until I asked him. Sean seemed to have a better experience with the CFI that he flew with in the Champ. I had a beautiful VFR tour, and a good introduction to the plane which I think will be the next step for me.
 
Great writeup! The 182 is a nice bird. I think you, without a doubt, made the correct decision about the "flinging oil"! :eek:
 
Thanks Grant.

I can't believe I forgot to mention this in my first post... I ran into a case of "small world syndrome". CFI Steve was kind enough to drive me back to the trolley station so I didn't have to catch a bus, and on the way he was talking about his flying career. It turns out that he learned to fly and got his PPL at KAMW! Hap had 3 C150's for sale and he bought one of them for $15,500 and learned to fly in it. He passed his checkride (from Hap himself) in 1980.
 
Great stuff! Isn't that a great place to fly? I like how you can see Mexico from the pattern. :D

Sorry about the Lynx episode; my gut feeling is that they weren't BS-ing you. that bird came out of a major repair just before I left in October (somebody pranged it); it may be that the engine was majored or replaced and was still being broken in; who knows?
I, too, had a maintenance issue, a busted brake cable with the Champ (which seemed to fail just as I pulled up to a pump and stopped, thank goodness)... I was stranded up at French Valley but they sent a CFI in the 172 to pick me up; got some 172 dual out of that for free.
And Tom was not reticent later about showing me the broken cable once he swapped it out- said it was just one of those things that can happen with the old setup, no way to see or feel the fraying before it goes,and it was not a big deal, athough I was wise in his opinion to not take a chance with it as I had no idea exactly what was wrong at the time.

As for the seemingly lax instruction, it's hard to say what Steve's motivation was, although I think your guess is correct.
Sounds like you did OK and learned something regardless.

I did get a little more coaching from ol' Bob J. in the Champ, but only because it was a totally new thing for me. But once he saw that I was about as competent as my logbook would suggest, he handled me like a puppy on a leash: letting me wander then reeling me in before I did anything stupid. I did have to ask about certain things, although often the answer was vague.

There's not a whole lot to talk about with the Champ, in terms of speeds, etc... it's very much a plane you fly with eyes outside, listening and feeling your way along.


I don't know about you, but I'd love to do more flying out there... it's real "pilot's country". :D
 
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Sounds fun PJ!

The trick with landing the old 182's with the big 40-degree flaps - Remember that you're going to run out of energy really fast with those big barn doors hangin' down. If you flare it like a 172, you'll thump it in. You have to do the flare a little faster which means you have to be really precise - do it too quickly and you'll balloon and have a much bigger thump! (Faster not in airspeed but in executing the sequence of actions.)

Honestly, it took me two years and well over 100 hours in the 182 before I was really satisfied between my full-flap landings. When I asked other pilots in the club what their tricks were for landing it, they said "only use 20 degrees of flaps." Uh, no thanks... Not at $380 to replace a tire...
 
Thanks Grant.

I can't believe I forgot to mention this in my first post... I ran into a case of "small world syndrome". CFI Steve was kind enough to drive me back to the trolley station so I didn't have to catch a bus, and on the way he was talking about his flying career. It turns out that he learned to fly and got his PPL at KAMW! Hap had 3 C150's for sale and he bought one of them for $15,500 and learned to fly in it. He passed his checkride (from Hap himself) in 1980.

hah it is a small world, thats cool!

glad you had a good flight. 105 an hour wet for a straight leg 182 seems high to me. our 182RG just went up to 117 an hour.
 
hah it is a small world, thats cool!

glad you had a good flight. 105 an hour wet for a straight leg 182 seems high to me. our 182RG just went up to 117 an hour.
Ha! Ours is about $159 (straight-legged). It's a 1999 model, but still. Chicago is more expensive for everything!:yes:
 
Sounds fun PJ!

The trick with landing the old 182's with the big 40-degree flaps - Remember that you're going to run out of energy really fast with those big barn doors hangin' down. If you flare it like a 172, you'll thump it in. You have to do the flare a little faster which means you have to be really precise - do it too quickly and you'll balloon and have a much bigger thump! (Faster not in airspeed but in executing the sequence of actions.)

Honestly, it took me two years and well over 100 hours in the 182 before I was really satisfied between my full-flap landings. When I asked other pilots in the club what their tricks were for landing it, they said "only use 20 degrees of flaps." Uh, no thanks... Not at $380 to replace a tire...
I can understand that... This one has the 40 deg of flaps, but they limited it to only 30 deg for whatever reason. With my no flap landings, I found that carrying a little bit of power to the flare seemed to work really well for me.
105 an hour wet for a straight leg 182 seems high to me. our 182RG just went up to 117 an hour.
Well, the straight-legged 182 at my flight school goes for $131.00/hr dry with a $45.76/hr fuel surcharge. Granted, it's a G1000, but when that's the rate you're used to seeing $105.00/hr wet is spectacular.
 
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