Any other diesel drivers on here

sba55 said:
I'd love to believe that, but how do you arrive at that number? Are there tax benefits? For a typical 10,000 miles per year driver, the Diesel uses 90 gallons less (assuming VW's book numbers, 41 mpg for the diesel and 30 for the gasoline). Diesel is, according to the latest fuel survey, on average about 7 cents cheaper. You'll save about $250 a year, and it will take you 8 years to break even. Sadly, that's been the story with Diesel in the US for a long time now. Better, but not good enough.

I would be thrilled if the analysis actually looked different...
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Its ashame diesels aren't more popular here and more competitively priced. They are so few in number here that the car companies can't get a similar economy of scale. I'd love to have a diesel in my Jeep. Perfect application, lots of low end torque, and better mileage than my current 17 MPG. :frown2:

Plus with a turbo diesel you don't have power loss at higher altitudes like when I lived in Colorado and was driving at altitudes many don't even fly at.
 
Geico266 said:
Now that is a great idea! Takes care of the turbo cooling issue so you can drive it more like a car.
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Most turbocharged car engines switched to water cooled cartridges (the part of the turbo with all the bearings in it) in the mid 90's, there might still be a few out there without this but I'd be surprised. The Eclipse mentioned in another post certainly has water cooling and the recommendation to let it cool probably stems from misplaced concerns generated by earlier turbo designs. A few makes even add an electric pump to circulate coolant through the turbo for a while after the engine is shut off, but I suspect that this is overkill as the water would have to boil away inside the turbo to get things hot enough assuming you're using good oil which won't coke at boiling coolant temps. BTW synthetic oils are the least susceptible to coking.
 
smigaldi said:
I may have to go back to changing my own oil which is a PITA due to time and disposal issues.
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You can pretty easily match the time it takes to drive to an oil place. The disposal can be sort of a pain in the ass but I've found a local car parts place that accepts it without paperwork or hassle. I just bring it in when I have about 15 quarts. I generally go there to buy a bunch of oil at some point anyways.

I will agree..it takes a little work..but it's not that bad. The actual oil changing part only takes minutes.
 
timwinters said:
In my 08' Dodge it would plug my particulate filter. Heck, if it stays in town for a few days, it plugs often enough even with the ultra low sulpher fuel. Then you gotta run it at high "r's" down the road to regenerate the filter. I'm sure that's great for keeping the turbo cool!:rolleyes:
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They say that's the same with the Duramax, as well - if you drive at extended periods for something at less than 30 mph, they say you need to plan on the filter getting clogged.

On a related note, have you noticed that the exhaust doesn't smell like normal diesel exhaust? I've got a 2008 GMC, and the exhaust smells almost sweetish. Big difference from in the past, anyway.
 
smigaldi said:
Well when I was out yesterday buying Diesel it was 2.59/gal and regular unleaded was 2.79/gal.
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Weird. Generally diesel and gas share similar price relationships throughout the country. Diesel *should* always be cheaper than gas as it's cheaper to produce, but that's not always the case, starting about 5-6 years ago it's flip-flopped several times.

Was that a highway price?
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Both highway and one city station that I saw.

Good to know WI is charging more. I'll be sure to fill up before I head up north of the cheddar curtain next month.
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I dunno which math you use in IL, but even though diesel is more expensive than gasoline in WI, diesel in WI is still cheaper than diesel in IL. ;)
 
flyingcheesehead said:
I dunno which math you use in IL, but even though diesel is more expensive than gasoline in WI, diesel in WI is still cheaper than diesel in IL. ;)
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I use the math were I pay less than the quoted average. You see when an average numbers is indicated that means that there are some numbers greater than it and some numbers lower than it. I am lucky enough to have two stations near me selling Diesel for less than the average. Not sure why they did not teach how averages work in Wisconsin. ;)
 
i'd love a TDI Jetta. better mileage and it has the torque to tow a glider trailer. the perfect car. too bad everyone else has figured it out too...
 
sba55 said:
I'd love to believe that, but how do you arrive at that number?
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The Jette TDI MSRP is $23,010 and the same equipped gas 2.0T is $21,020. With a tax credit of $1300 that pulls another $390 off of the price difference for a delta of $1600.

Tha average price of gas according to the AAA is $2.54 and Diesel is $2.58. It has been that was for a while now.
http://www.fuelgaugereport.com/

MPG: The Jette TDI is getting, according to Fuelly.com, is getting 42 mpg.

the 2.0T Sedan is getting 22.5mpg

Cost per mile to operate is

TDI: $2.58/g * 1/42 gpm = $.061/m

2.0T $2.54/g * 1/22.5 gpm = $.113/m

I agree with your 10,000miles/year number as that is what I basically drive.

So to operate the TDI my cost of fuel per year is $610
The cost to operate the 2.0T is $1,130 for a difference $520/year. So ones cost is recovered in $1600/$520/y = 3.08 years, lets just say 3 years.

According to this article, http://usa.polk.com/News/LatestNews/2009_0323_auto_purchase_plans.htm, the average length of car ownership in the US is 56.3 months or 4.7 years. The average person will see a cost advantage to owning diesel.

Since I keep my cars much longer than the average this is not a problem. It is an easily achievable break even point.

BTW I did not include maintenance in this calculation for a reason. VW provides full coverage bumper to bumper coverage for both cars for 3 years. So it is not a factor at all. I should also add that for the Diesel Jette many people drive them for 10 years or more. Repeat TDI buying is quite common. Also BMW is bringing their Diesel to the US this year and Subaru is bringing their's for 2010.

Those are the worst case numbers. Getting a better price on the car and watching your fuel costs can significantly shorten that 3 years.

I got the one year number because I did not pay anywhere near MSRP and I am also paying less for Diesel than the nationwide average. In fact I paid less than what a co-worker paid for her comparably equipped 2.0T which she paid less than MSRP on as well. But it took me over 6 months of hassling to get to that price.
 
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We had a 1978 Olds Custom Cruiser (or whatever the huge-ass station wagon was called). Diesel. Bought it used with about 110k miles on it. For a family that grew up on VW microbuses, VW beetles, and a Dodge Omni Miser, it was a revelation. Power everything. Seating areas that stretched into the next area code. Air conditioning. Automatic transmission. Air conditioning. It also had airconditioning. That cool power rear window, and the shotgun seat. Plus, it had air conditioning.

Trouble was, it had some sort of crappy American-made transmission that slipped like a wet baby from a wide-hipped momma once the tranny warmed up and you had the temerity to try to crest a modest hill. Obviously, this being a GM dealership, the dealer had NO IDEA what was wrong and was unable to diagnose or fix it. Ever. I traded it in on a VW Golf and was happy to get $600 for it.

Too bad. Neat car. My experience with diesel. Oh, and I rented a Renault Laguna TDI in France back in 1999. Great car. Peppy engine with a 5 speed. I'dve bought one if they sold them here in the USA.
 
Our in house delivery service runs 6 Sprinter vans with the Mercedes diesel powertrain. The oldest has been running a 190 mile route daily since 06 with no engine or trans problems. We sell GM Ford and Chrysler, and of the bunch, I sell more Ford diesel parts (complete engines, heads,egr coolers, high pressure pumps, injectors, than the other two combined.) Our long distance drivers prefer the Cummins Dodge over the rest, esp. since they added the Mercedes 6spd manual.
 
back in the mid to late 70s my best friends dad got a Diesel Tornado man was that a heavy cushy ride sounded like a cabin cruiser. My wife had a Volvo Deisel before we got married. Thing ran like a tank. She would plug it in in the winter ( don't recall what she'd do when she would leave the car at the airport for a week in January. Every fill up she would have to add a cap of this red liquid don't know what the hell it was but her dad was convinced it made the car run better, who knows.

I saw the estimated 45mpg for the VW TDI and was pretty blown away that is amazing. It did make me think however how many of my local gas stations or for that matter any station in the burbs sells deisel? I'm sure there out there just never took note.
 
Adam. Diesel is widely available. As I said before I'd love one in my Jeep. Of course they are sold with a diesel in Europe, but not hear. :frown2:

My friend goes 800 - 900 miles on a tank of gas in a diesel VW Beetle.
 
Anthony said:
Adam. Diesel is widely available. As I said before I'd love one in my Jeep. Of course they are sold with a diesel in Europe, but not hear. :frown2:

My friend goes 800 - 900 miles on a tank of gas in a diesel VW Beetle.
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I have a customer with a diesel Grand Cherokee. Until I met him, I thought they were export only, but he said he called Chrysler and special ordered it. He claims it's the greatest thing since sliced bread. :smilewinkgrin: I've heard good things about the diesel Liberty as well, but I think it's gone to special order status as well. To bad, because I think they were on the right track vs the hybrid stuff.
 
Scott,

Another thing to be aware of is that diesel can get algae in it. I've forgotten why (I think it has something to do with the paraffin), I've forgotten when, and I've forgotten how, but it can clog fuel filters. It doesn't happen very often, but just as an FYI.
 
Diesel is plenty available, but it is harder to find. Normally you can only find a couple of stations in the area that will carry it. That gets better as you get into more rural areas where more people drive F-350s to work every day.

The other option is biodiesel if you can find a place that will sell it. I have a friend locally who makes it, and that fact alone is making the concept of a diesel vehicle more appealing.
 
I've had my 2005 VW Jetta TDI for about four years now (about 100k). I really like the diesel. I have the five speed and the best I've got was 53 mpg. I usually get about 40. The quality of the VW is very good and I would buy another in a heartbeat.
 
Thanks for claryfing, Scott. 3 years sounds closer to something I'd expect.

This is a bit suspect, though:
smigaldi said:
MPG: The Jette TDI is getting, according to Fuelly.com, is getting 42 mpg.

the 2.0T Sedan is getting 22.5mpg
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That can't be right. According to VW's own book numbers, the 2.0T gets 30 hwy while the Diesel gets 41. With the tax credit, then, we're back to 5 years. But anyways, it's probably clear that fuel costs are not the main factor in the decision.

Btw., the 2.0T doesn't get very good mpg. Wonder if the engine technology is old.

-Felix
 
sba55 said:
Thanks for claryfing, Scott. 3 years sounds closer to something I'd expect.
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But that is worse case and for some it will be true but for many it is not. That to date Diesel engines have out lasted gas is not in debate. So it easier to get to that value. Of course things can change. I do not dispute that. But I know even last year the cost per mile numbers were such that for me Diesel was a good choice. My only fear is the new, advanced emmsions system and the affects of bio-diesel on it. It is harder to get pur petro-diesel in Illinois due to favorable tax breaks to bio-diesel producors.

sba55 said:
This is a bit suspect, though:

That can't be right. According to VW's own book numbers, the 2.0T gets 30 hwy while the Diesel gets 41. With the tax credit, then, we're back to 5 years. But anyways, it's probably clear that fuel costs are not the main factor in the decision.

Btw., the 2.0T doesn't get very good mpg. Wonder if the engine technology is old.

-Felix
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The book number are based on the EPA emission testing methods. The Fuelly.com numbers are based on actual driving. In this case YMMV is real.
 
sba55 said:
Wonder if the engine technology is old.
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well the 4 stroke process was patented in 1854. sounds like its time for something new. Rudolph Diesel did not get a patent until 1894, downright modern in comparison! :)
 
Anthony said:
Its ashame diesels aren't more popular here and more competitively priced. They are so few in number here that the car companies can't get a similar economy of scale. I'd love to have a diesel in my Jeep. Perfect application, lots of low end torque, and better mileage than my current 17 MPG. :frown2:

Plus with a turbo diesel you don't have power loss at higher altitudes like when I lived in Colorado and was driving at altitudes many don't even fly at.
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Where there's a will, there's a way:

 
Chris, that is just freakin awesome. I want one!
 
tonycondon said:
i'd love a TDI Jetta. better mileage and it has the torque to tow a glider trailer. the perfect car. too bad everyone else has figured it out too...
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I wanted to "buy back" my Mercedes 240D - also plenty of torque, not plenty of acceleration - and discovered that it was all the rage now with tree huggers who burn bio-diesel in 'em. Once again my judgement and timing sucks.
 
tonycondon said:
i'd love a TDI Jetta. better mileage and it has the torque to tow a glider trailer. the perfect car. too bad everyone else has figured it out too...
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I had to hit 4 dealers and spend 6 months talking but I got mine at the price I was willing to pay. The time is right if you still want one. Peope are thinking about 2010 and the 2009 models that are left on the lot are ripe for the picking. The trick is to be ready to walk away.

On a TDI news group that I am frequenting the past two months has seen a lot of people able to finally get some good prices. Whereas many were paying sticker and above in late 2008 through April dealers are now trying to get rid of inventory.

Go get one now Tony. It is a really fun car. I did have to compromise on the 6-speed manual to the 6-speed DSG. But I am still happy. If you go in an work a price and then ask for the tow package you will make your dealer very happy.
 
tonycondon said:
well the 4 stroke process was patented in 1854. sounds like its time for something new. Rudolph Diesel did not get a patent until 1894, downright modern in comparison! :)
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Bill Jennings said:
No, but 200 or so horsepower has to come from somewhere.
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I'm talking about direct fuel injection My 330hp twin turbocharged car gets 30mpg in the freeway, as well....doubt the VW's engine has direct fuel injection, not many engines have that yet. Point is that there is a lot that can be done with gasoline engines, still.
 
sba55 said:
I'm talking about direct fuel injection My 330hp twin turbocharged car gets 30mpg in the freeway, as well....doubt the VW's engine has direct fuel injection, not many engines have that yet. Point is that there is a lot that can be done with gasoline engines, still.
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Have you got the BMW? That's the only car I can think of with a twin-turbo.
 
sba55 said:
I'm talking about direct fuel injection My 330hp twin turbocharged car gets 30mpg in the freeway, as well....doubt the VW's engine has direct fuel injection, not many engines have that yet. Point is that there is a lot that can be done with gasoline engines, still.
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I think VW's 2.0T is direct injected.
 
sba55 said:
Then why's the fuel economy so lousy? Got to be something else involved then....
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I don't know, but BMW does use some interesting things, like variable speed electric water pumps and thermostats, to increase mileage.
 
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