Any idiot can fly a plane, but helicopters not so much?

BobThePilot

BobThePilot

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We've all heard of cases where people with no training can successfully fly a plane (perhaps not well, but well enough to get back on the ground without damaging themselves or the plane). Has there been any similar story with helicopters? Does that mean helicopter pilots are more skilled? Smarter?

:yes:

Do you any of you fixed wing pilots feel inferior when in the presence of a helicopter pilot? I am guessing yes even if you don't admit it. I mean, c'mon, they can probably fly your machine even without a rating and you would crash their rig in probably five seconds. If that doesn't summarize the situation, I don't know what else does.

:eek:

How do you as fixed wing pilots deal with this inadequacy?

:confused:
 
We, uh, feel sorry for those rotorcraft pilots that must rely on slow speed and hover capability as a crutch to mask their inability to react quickly enough to maneuver and land a fixed wing. We feel sorry for them but give them our full support.
 
Ah, so denial and avoidance is the best way to deal with it?

:yes:

Good, good, keep it coming. We need to get this all out of our systems and deal with it as best we can.
 
I know quite a few rotorwing pilots in the Army that don't have any or much fixed wing time, and all of them feel nervous and uneasy when trying to takeoff or land a fixed wing airplane. Sure, once you get an airplane in the air it's easy to fly, but they understand that the takeoff and landing is challenging and like I said, most feel uncomfortable or intimidated by it. That is, unless they have fixed wing ratings.
 
I hang out with them every day. Most are jealous of the fixed wing pilots who can actually afford to fly their machines.
 
kurtsnyder said:
I know quite a few rotorwing pilots in the Army that don't have any or much fixed wing time, and all of them feel nervous and uneasy when trying to takeoff or land a fixed wing airplane. Sure, once you get an airplane in the air it's easy to fly, but they understand that the takeoff and landing is challenging and like I said, most feel uncomfortable or intimidated by it. That is, unless they have fixed wing ratings.
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They are probably just giving you that impression to make you feel better about your lesser skills. Deep down they know they are better than you. You can tell it by the smirk on their faces, that knowing look that, without words, says "I am better than you". We've all seen it. You know exactly what I am talking about.
 
What's the difference between a fixed-wing pilot and a helicopter pilot?

A fixed-wing pilot breaks ground and flies into the wind. A helicopter pilot breaks wind and flies into the ground.
 
Depends on what you mean by "training". Besides, there are plenty of idiot helicopter pilots.
 
I have like an hour of R-22 instruction. I also flew RC helicopters (hobby grade) for a short period.

I think you could take a person with a bunch of MSFS experience, stick them in an airplane, make them take off and land, and there's a 99% chance they would be alive at the end of the day, and about a 90% chance the airplane would be reusable.

I think you could take a fixed wing pilot, stick them in a helicopter and there's a 20% chance they would be alive at the end of the day, and a 1% chance the helicopter would be reusable.

I think you could give a fixed wing pilot a few hours of instruction, and make them land a helicopter already in forward flight and there would be a 90% chance they would be alive at the end of the day and a 75% chance the helicopter would be reusable.

When a helicopter is in forward flight, they're easy to fly. During my intro flight, I flew most all of the forward flight with zero assistance. Making a running landing wasn't that difficult, either. A "normal" helicopter flight profile, with a hover takeoff, hover taxi, precision landing? Extremely difficult. We tried some hover practice - I lasted all of one second before the instructor had to take over.
 
I learned to fly in a T-28A then transitioned to helicopters. Then after a year flying in the Jolly Green operation, spent about 800 hours transitioning fixed wing pilots to helicopters.

Then transitioned to a heavy transport jet via a T-38A.

Just different skill sets...

But generally helicopter pilots have more fun :D

The closest I have come to flying helicopters is my Waco.
 
ebetancourt said:
Just different skill sets...
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Agree with this. I learned how to fly a helicopter after being a FW pilot for a long time so I had some bad FW habits to overcome. Then I quit flying helicopters because unless I planned to continue and eventually find a job somewhere doing it I couldn't justify the expense. Now I have forgotten everything I knew and it would probably be like starting over.
 
My brother was an Army rotor wing pilot. He says that flying helicopters is like self-gratification, it's fun, but you're embarrassed if people see you doing it.
 
BobThePilot said:
They are probably just giving you that impression to make you feel better about your lesser skills. Deep down they know they are better than you. You can tell it by the smirk on their faces, that knowing look that, without words, says "I am better than you". We've all seen it. You know exactly what I am talking about.
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Nope. I hang out with several helo pilots. Never seen any smirks. :no:
 
JimNtexas said:
My brother was an Army rotor wing pilot. He says that flying helicopters is like self-gratification, it's fun, but you're embarrassed if people see you doing it.
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I don't know why he would say that. Flying a helicopter looks like it would be a blast. I would love to be able to fly one.
 
Most of us will never find out. From what I've heard from those who know, it is big dirty fun.
 
I'm dual rated. As said above 'just different' - however, try finding a job as a rotor head. :wink:
 
BobThePilot said:
We've all heard of cases where people with no training can successfully fly a plane (perhaps not well, but well enough to get back on the ground without damaging themselves or the plane). Has there been any similar story with helicopters? Does that mean helicopter pilots are more skilled? Smarter?

:yes:

Do you any of you fixed wing pilots feel inferior when in the presence of a helicopter pilot? I am guessing yes even if you don't admit it. I mean, c'mon, they can probably fly your machine even without a rating and you would crash their rig in probably five seconds. If that doesn't summarize the situation, I don't know what else does.

:eek:

How do you as fixed wing pilots deal with this inadequacy?

:confused:
Click to expand...

Sounds like you've been around helicopter pilots that are naive enough to believe they have some special skills to do what they do. I put probably 200 students through Army flight school and I can tell you that there is nothing special when it comes to basics in flying a helicopter. Anyone can do it.

Having said that, is it harder? You betcha. A helicopter by its nature is unstable. Most large helicopters require computers to keep them both statically and dynamically stable. Without them the aircraft is a handful to fly. For someone coming from fixedwing, flying a basic helicopter at altitude will seem quite normal. That is until you release the controls and find you're completely out of control within 2 secs. My first time I maintained standards for cruise. My instructor could tell I had fixedwing flying experience but he also knew that wouldn't matter when it came time to hover.

Hovering a helicopter is similar to learning the flare in an airplane. It's harder in a helicopter due to all the forces acting against one another and the fact a helicopter is more responsive. Nothing I've flown even comes close to the sensitivity of a helicopter. A helicopter wants to weathervane far more than a fixedwing as well. The technique that most instructors use at a hover is to give the student one control at a time. Within 2-3 secs of having all the controls you're completely out of control again and the instructor has to take over. In the Army we had old Vietnam IPs that would let us take it to the limit before they took over. We would roll on the ground laughing watching our "stick buddies" try to hover. After about 7-8 total hours a typical student can hover safely and then solo around 15 hours.

Not only are the basics of flying a helicopter harder than a comparable fixedwing trainer but their commercial applications are usually more difficult as well. Power line maintenance, tree limb cutting, sling loads, logging operations, "Bambi Bucket" fire fighting, EMS and search and rescue to LZs at night. Outside of flying low level aerobatics I really can't think of any fixedwing that requires the same type of control touch that a typical helicopter operation has.

One time I was getting my annual flight physical in the Marines and I told the Doc I was applying for Army flight school. He said he'd love to do that. Said he had over 100 hours in the back of F-18s but he enjoyed flying little TH-57s more. Now, I'm not gonna say flying a helicopter would be more enjoyable than flying a fighter or any other fixedwing for that matter but I can say generally it's more challenging than your typical fixedwing.
 
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Interesting having a couple of thousand hours flying AH-1's and AH-64's and now just thirty hours in my Arrow I purchase to get my private fixed to add to my Commercial Rotorwing Instrument...comments about feeling dirty flying rotor wing are sort of true...particularly flying a Snake.

Its just different...and so many fewer rules to follow when a working right and you have twin turbines and lots of power....
 
I don't feel inferior at all. How many helicopter pilots fly to unfamiliar destinations over different weather masses in IMC? What about flying in the confined areas (mountains) without the ability to come to a full stop in the air? While it is true that the basics of helicopter flying is harder to aquare, I feel overall skill set necessary for flying fixed wing safely is at least as complex as the skill set for the helicopters. (Now, all that being said, I have zero hours in a helicopter and can only state my limited opinion.)
 
BobThePilot said:
They are probably just giving you that impression to make you feel better about your lesser skills. Deep down they know they are better than you. You can tell it by the smirk on their faces, that knowing look that, without words, says "I am better than you". We've all seen it. You know exactly what I am talking about.
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:rofl:
 
Electric said:
What about flying in the confined areas (mountains) without the ability to come to a full stop in the air?
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I think you might be overestimating the power most helicopters have available, or underestimating the power to hover OGE in the mountains.

Regardless, add weather to the mix and helicopters are a bit more comfortable than planes. I have been in the mountains with terrible weather and was very glad I could slow down, and had the added maneuverability a helicopter affords. I wouldn't dare try some of that flying in a fixed wing.
 
Helicopters are the third most fun thing to fly, high performance ram air parachutes are #1, Modern sailplanes #2. Airplanes are great for jumping out of and towing gliders otherwise I guess they are more fun then hot air balloons.
 
I never finished my rotor rating, but have about 25hrs on helicopters and the Schweizer 300. All I can say is that when I started flying them, I pretty much didn't want to fly FW anymore. It was so boring compared to the excitement of helicopters. Obviously, as I grew older and found the usefulness of XC in FW, I did fall in love with airplanes again. But I still secretly dream of having a Sikorsky S-76D on the driveway. Those things are design classics like the Learjet. The lines never age.
 

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Actually, I think that the best way to summarize how most people feel about helicopter pilots is with this letter to Dear Abby which appeared a while back...

Dear Abby:
I'm faced with a major dilemma. I'm engaged to be married soon and I haven't been totally up-front with my fiancé. I come from a highly dysfunctional family - my father is on death row for raping and killing a nun during a robbery attempt. My mother is a crack addicted prostitute. My older brother is in prison on drug and child pornography charges and my sister is in a mental hospital after attempting to kill her family. Finally, my younger brother is a helicopter pilot. My question to you is should I tell my fiancé about my brother the pilot?

Wondering in Wichita

Dear Abby's response was short and sweet...

"I wouldn't if I were you."
 
If helicopters are so cool...why don't we hear a lot more about vintage helicopter flying?
 
Kelvin said:
If helicopters are so cool...why don't we hear a lot more about vintage helicopter flying?
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You don't see them because pilots fly them from their houses to where they want to go. Skipping those giant scars on mother earth, special needs pilots call airports.:D
 
Velocity173 said:
Sounds like you've been around helicopter pilots that are naive enough to believe they have some special skills to do what they do. I put probably 200 students through Army flight school and I can tell you that there is nothing special when it comes to basics in flying a helicopter. Anyone can do it.

Having said that, is it harder? You betcha. A helicopter by its nature is unstable. Most large helicopters require computers to keep them both statically and dynamically stable. Without them the aircraft is a handful to fly. For someone coming from fixedwing, flying a basic helicopter at altitude will seem quite normal. That is until you release the controls and find you're completely out of control within 2 secs. My first time I maintained standards for cruise. My instructor could tell I had fixedwing flying experience but he also knew that wouldn't matter when it came time to hover.

Hovering a helicopter is similar to learning the flare in an airplane. It's harder in a helicopter due to all the forces acting against one another and the fact a helicopter is more responsive. Nothing I've flown even comes close to the sensitivity of a helicopter. A helicopter wants to weathervane far more than a fixedwing as well. The technique that most instructors use at a hover is to give the student one control at a time. Within 2-3 secs of having all the controls you're completely out of control again and the instructor has to take over. In the Army we had old Vietnam IPs that would let us take it to the limit before they took over. We would roll on the ground laughing watching our "stick buddies" try to hover. After about 7-8 total hours a typical student can hover safely and then solo around 15 hours.

Not only are the basics of flying a helicopter harder than a comparable fixedwing trainer but their commercial applications are usually more difficult as well. Power line maintenance, tree limb cutting, sling loads, logging operations, "Bambi Bucket" fire fighting, EMS and search and rescue to LZs at night. Outside of flying low level aerobatics I really can't think of any fixedwing that requires the same type of control touch that a typical helicopter operation has.

One time I was getting my annual flight physical in the Marines and I told the Doc I was applying for Army flight school. He said he'd love to do that. Said he had over 100 hours in the back of F-18s but he enjoyed flying little TH-57s more. Now, I'm not gonna say flying a helicopter would be more enjoyable than flying a fighter or any other fixedwing for that matter but I can say generally it's more challenging than your typical fixedwing.
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But we had a highly experienced CFI on this board try to make the claim

I've trained several for fixed-wing, and they've all had to work to get the "right rudder for torque" part right. Of course, they were all US Army folks, so they never learned anything but "left pedal for power."
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Which is kinda funny considering helicopter pilots have to deal with torque and yaw much much more than fixed wing pilots. Conversely I've never seen a helicopter pilot transitioning from a left turning rotor to a right turning rotor have any difficulty knowing which pedal to push for power.
 
Never attempted to fly a full scale one but I've been heavily involved in R/C for almost 2 decades and helicopters are MUCH harder to learn to fly.
 
Any idiot can post a troll thread. C'mon Pete, we all know you're capable of much better (and more entertaining) than this.
 
RotorAndWing said:
But we had a highly experienced CFI on this board try to make the claim



Which is kinda funny considering helicopter pilots have to deal with torque and yaw much much more than fixed wing pilots. Conversely I've never seen a helicopter pilot transitioning from a left turning rotor to a right turning rotor have any difficulty knowing which pedal to push for power.
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Lol! Yeah it shouldn't be a problem for pilots transitioning from helos. The only guys who might have left pedal with collective engrained in their brain would be those who flew Cobras or Hueys their whole career. For those who flew Black Hawks or Apaches, we lost the whole left pedal with collective muscle memory way back in flight school flying 206s. In a Black Hawk you can put your feet flat on the floor and bring it up to a hover if you want.

I had an instructor tell me that my fixedwing experience might have me pushing right pedal when I increase collective. Nope, I knew about Action-Reaction and I knew from the beginning that left pedal needed to be applied when raising the collective. Still didn't change the fact that I was completely out of control the first few times hovering. :D

A few years ago when AVOTEC gave us $4,500 for flight training, a bunch of guys I knew got their fixedwing out of it. None of them had any troubles in learning the act of flying an airplane. Some had to get used to flying an aircraft completely by themselves but it didn't take long for them to adapt.
 
Velocity173 said:
In a Black Hawk you can put your feet flat on the floor and bring it up to a hover if you want.
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That's cheating. Guess a bunch of unemployed Ercoupe engineers had nothing better to do then muddle in helicopters.:rolleyes:
 
Well that backfired. A bunch of hotshot rotor wing rated pilots came on here and made me feel even more wormlike, more inadequate.

:redface:

Wipe those smirks off your faces!
 
BobThePilot said:
Well that backfired. A bunch of hotshot rotor wing rated pilots came on here and made me feel even more wormlike, more inadequate.

:redface:

Wipe those smirks off your faces!
Click to expand...


Wouldn't say it backfired. It's not about us vs them or who's the better pilot.

The best way to look at the helicopter vs airplane argument is to compare learning to drive a motorcycle vs car. Both will get their licenses eventually, it'll just be a little more difficult for the motorcycle / helicopter guys. Might even have more fun doing it as well.

Go out and sign up for an introductory helicopter lesson and find out for yourself.
 
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