Any Feedback on Savvy Pre-buy

J

jpflysdfw

Filing Flight Plan
Joined
Dec 27, 2015
Messages
25
Display Name
Display name:
JpFlys-DFW
As a potential fist time owner, knowing who can and can't trust to perform a pre-buy on any specific aircraft model is a bit unnerving. In the past, I've read varying perspectives on Savvy's services. I would greatly appreaciate the voice of experience from those on this forum, regarding your perspective and experience utilizing Savvy for their pre-buy? Anything specific that I should look out for? Jeff
 
I used them as a first-time buyer, and I really appreciated having their guidance in picking a shop, specifying which items the shop should check, and their second opinion on which items were worthy of asking the seller to pay for. I thought their fee was good value.

A much more experienced buyer probably doesn't need them. But you mentioned that you're a first-time buyer, and I'd say they are perfect for that.
 
The biggest problem with buying an airplane is to find the one you want, you need to look nationwide. That means it is usually found in a distant place. This complicates and adds expense. If you are lucky enough to find what you want locally you are ahead of the game.

When I bought, I just inspected the airplane myself, flew it with the owner make sure I knew what works and what doesnt (in both cases everything worked) and hired a compression test (and the owner is not allowed in the shop during the compression test, nor does he get to see the results). The compression test is the hard part. Find a mechanic at a different airport is the best strategy. Have the mechanic look for corrosion also.

In both cases I bought pretty much pristine airplanes and did not get a bargain, but I think unless you are a mechanic or want to be a mechanic and have a project, buying pristine is better. Far fewer problems down the road, and less expensive in the long run. Still have some problems though.

If the engine is good, it doesnt have corrosion and it has the avionics you want, doesnt have hidden improperly repaired damage, you are usually good to go. The other stuff can be fixed fairly easily.
 
Howdy from Denton! and Welcome to PoA
 
Jeff,

I was in your shoes about 3 years ago. I knew I was going to make a big decision, that my fiscal health and my safety were at stake and I wanted to do the best I could. For me - I knew that I didn't have the skill or knowledge needed to make a determination on my own - I would need to hire it out and I needed to do it to the best of my abilities.

I was narrowing my choices of planes and was down to either Bellanca 17-30/31, Socata TB-20 or Commander 114. I joined all three online forums for Viking Pilots, Socata and Commander. I read everything I could find on those sites about the planes generally speaking. I also found on those sites the shops who either specialize in maintaining those planes - or was highly recommended by the online forum.

I made the decision that the Commander was the plane - then had to find one - as luck would have it - that happened a bit before I was ready. However, I knew of the major shops that maintained several Commanders and were highly recommended. I worked out a purchase agreement with a version that contained bits from AOPA, the one from the Commander's forum and my own thoughts. My goal on the purchase agreement was to commit the seller to me - as long as the plane was as represented and pending a pre-buy. I flew into Dallas - dropped by the owners hangar saw the plane - the conditioned matched - they'd just done an annual - I had them save me oil, so I could have an analysis done. Then the owner flew her to the shop (also in Dallas) for my pre-buy. The shop was great they: let me hang out, ask questions, provided thoughtful advice and compared the results of the oil analysis to their findings. Then I had a decision to make.

For me - buying the plane was an emotional rodeo. Plus the purchase is the easy part - now you get to maintain and fix what you bought. I spent 2x the cost of the annual for my pre-buy. Was it expensive - yes. Was it worth it - yes. It gave me peace of mind that I had a solid air-frame, all ADs had been complied with, the engine was solid and I felt I had a solid grasp overall of the health of 42W.

I am headed into my 3rd annual in about 2 months. I've had one surprise in the years I have her - magnetos - but - that was it. I've flown her about 250 hours-ish without too many major investments. I keep doing an oil analysis every oil change and now those come back right as rain.

So short version - find your Make/model - then find the online community and start researching. For me, this approach really helped.

Dean
 
JP; what airframe are you looking at?

As the others have said, often you can manage the process yourself once you have been properly educated on the big and small items to investigate. But, in my opinion, the more complicated or expensive the item, having a qualified expert on your team is worth doing.
 
I second the idea of joining users groups online and getting advice from other owners of the airplane type you are considering. They will have LOTS of advice on knowledgeable mechanics to do a pre-buy in a particular area. I found an absolutely great mechanic through a users group when I bought my Maule. He was so good, I relocated my family to be close enough that I could still use him to service the plane. OK, there were other amenities in the area that attracted me, but you get the idea.
 
NoHeat said:
I used them as a first-time buyer, and I really appreciated having their guidance in picking a shop, specifying which items the shop should check, and their second opinion on which items were worthy of asking the seller to pay for. I thought their fee was good value.

A much more experienced buyer probably doesn't need them. But you mentioned that you're a first-time buyer, and I'd say they are perfect for that.
Click to expand...

NoHeat,
Thanks for the positive feedback. They sound like a viable option that I may look to explore. How long ago did you use them, was it fairly recent?
 
AggieMike88 said:
JP; what airframe are you looking at?

As the others have said, often you can manage the process yourself once you have been properly educated on the big and small items to investigate. But, in my opinion, the more complicated or expensive the item, having a qualified expert on your team is worth doing.
Click to expand...

Thanks Mike, I like the way you think. My primary concern is ensuring I have a safe/airworthy plane and one that wont be down for major repair/overhaul shortly after purchase. Once I buy it, I want to fly it for awhile! I know stuff happens but would like to do my best to prevent buying a potential hanger queen.:)
 
Flyhound said:
I second the idea of joining users groups online and getting advice from other owners of the airplane type you are considering. They will have LOTS of advice on knowledgeable mechanics to do a pre-buy in a particular area. I found an absolutely great mechanic through a users group when I bought my Maule. He was so good, I relocated my family to be close enough that I could still use him to service the plane. OK, there were other amenities in the area that attracted me, but you get the idea.
Click to expand...

Sounds like the perfect arrangement...an awesome mechanic right in the vicinity! I've been scouring the forums for a while now and there are a couple of renown guru's within a couple of hours. the challenge is a nation-wide pool of aircraft and finding someone in the vicinity of where ever the plane happens to be. Now if I could just find one in my own back yard...
 
First time owner/buyer three years ago - used Savvy to help find a PreBuy inspector (they recommended a former Grumman dealer that knows the airframe well) and then assisted with maintenance at half their usual price for the first year. The contact A&P assigned me is a previous Grumman owner which was helpful.
Now that I'm conversant with the few Grumman Guru's around, considering my future options. May go with their Breakdown-away-from-home program.
 
Great to hear. Tiger's are actually one the models I'm contemplating. Along with Cherokee/Arrow. Thanks for the personal perspective.
 
jpflysdfw said:
Great to hear. Tiger's are actually one the models I'm contemplating. Along with Cherokee/Arrow. Thanks for the personal perspective.
Click to expand...
You should reach out to @texashikergal02 (Kathy), she is based at KGPM, Grand Prairie, and has been a Grumman owner for a very long time. And recently she upgraded from a Traveler to a Tiger. She would be an excellent local expert to work with on both the airframe and how to find/purchase a good aircraft.
 
Thanks Mike. I'll reach out to Kathy and see what she will share.
 
Mike is referring to me. I've owned a Traveler for 9 years, and a Tiger for 2 months, but I've been involved with Grumman's longer than that, as part of my private pilot training was in a Cheetah. I will be unashamedly biased towards the Grumman line. I can't really give you much comparison between a Grumman and a Cherokee/Arrow, as I've only flown a PA28 once (and it was a 1960's dog of a lease-back plane).

If you haven't already, find someone who will give you an introductory ride in both (hint, hint), to see which model you like better. Talk to them, pick their brains, find out the things that can be particular gotcha's about them. Get on their user forums (request access to the Grumman one at grumman-gang@mailman.xmission.com) Get a thorough prebuy from someone that knows the aircraft well, and isn't associated with the airplane. If you decide on a Tiger, get a pre-buy at the best Grumman guru shop you can find. They are not as well known as other aircraft and things can get missed by the average shop that can be real gotchas. I can help you find good shops around the country, and the 'guru's' are scattered around the US as well.

Feel free to contact me off-forum and we can talk more, if Grumman is what you are looking for (and you know you are, look at the swinging pocket-watch, its telling you, Grumman, Grumman, Grumman.........)
 
i was trying to find some very specific aircraft over the last 20 or so years and pat at indy aero found what i needed 5 0r six times .mostly midwest aircraft so no corrosion . in most cases he would let you buy it direct and add fee or buy it and deliver it to your prebuy guy and if you dont want it you just pay to get it to your hangar and back to indy . sometimes it takes a long time depending what your specs are .but it is worth it . he just found me one of the nicest unbasterized champs on the planet and delivered it to flordia . to buy quality aircraft now you have willing to pay. only junk is a good deal,.byw it took him 4 years to find my last purchas . worth the time spent/waiting .
 
Thanks hotprops, 4 years...you are one patient individual!

Kathy, if Grumman were still building GA airplane, I would be convinced you were on commission.:) Congrats on the recent Tiger purchase, I'd love to pick your brain on your search and lessons learned.
 
Nothing to add, I agree with all has been said. :thumbsup: So, welcome to POA...:cheers:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top