Any chance for Mooney to Manufacture again?

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supernovae

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supernovae
What are the odds of Mooney starting back up again? And if they do restart, do you think they too would be at the hands of a Chinese company?

Several false starts in the early 2000s, are people just not interested in their aircraft these days?
 
99.9+% of people can't afford new aircraft.
 
Does mooney own any type certificates of more affordable aircraft or just their M20 line at this point?

Also, I didn't know the TBM 700 was was the Mooney 301, is that true or Wikipedia bs?
 
supernovae said:
Also, I didn't know the TBM 700 was was the Mooney 301, is that true or Wikipedia bs?
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What is true is that Mooney, Socata and I believe Valmet cooperated in the development of the TBM. Mooney went broke and dropped out and the finnish partner left the project as well. Socata decided to continue the project.
 
I don't think they're coming back when you can get a airplane that's just as fast with the gear welded down for the same money.
 
Last time I called Mooney to ask a question, the fella that answered the phone said there were only 2 people working there anymore. All the half build airplanes just sat where they left them.
 
I think they make more money selling $15 gear sets for $800 than they do selling entire airplanes. Without a major economic turnaround I don't foresee them restarting production. And I don't see a major economic turnaround for a very long time.

But never count them out. They've come and gone many times in the last forty plus years.
 
Not unless the FAA changes the procedures on modernization. They still use 50 year old jigs and lots of labor to fit each piece. IIRC it was taking around 2500 hours to build a plane. I knew one of the recent CEOs. She said they have to get to 1500 to be profitable.
 
Hmmm, could a half built airplane be finished, or are you swearing off Mooneys for awhile?
 
I remember an episode of Law & Order in which a defense attorney was grilling the medical examiner about the cause of death. The defense attorney kept trying to get the ME to say that it was possible some other cause that might create reasonable doubt was the real reason the victim died rather than the cause the ME had given, and the ME was resisting mightily, but the atttorney kept pushing. Eventually, the ME said, "It's possible that death rays from Mars killed the victim, but in my best professional judgement based on 20 years as a medical examiner, it was the bullet in his chest." So, while it's possible Mooney will restart production...
 
steingar said:
I don't think they're coming back when you can get a airplane that's just as fast with the gear welded down for the same money.
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An SR22T is not as fast as an Acclaim Type S at all. The Acclaim is 30-40 kts faster.

So my question would be why are so many people buying Cirri when you could buy an Acclaim for the same money?
 
Ted DuPuis said:
An SR22T is not as fast as an Acclaim Type S at all. The Acclaim is 30-40 kts faster.

So my question would be why are so many people buying Cirri when you could buy an Acclaim for the same money?
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Because you cannot today buy a new Mooney Acclaim? Or maybe the folks buying those new planes can't stand the insurance requirements on a very high performance retractable?
 
EdFred said:
99.9+% of people can't afford new aircraft.
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ANd most of those that can afford new will be looking at Cirrus, Cessna, or turbine instead (I note that the D-jet hasn't made it to production yet...).

ejensen said:
Not unless the FAA changes the procedures on modernization. They still use 50 year old jigs and lots of labor to fit each piece. IIRC it was taking around 2500 hours to build a plane. I knew one of the recent CEOs. She said they have to get to 1500 to be profitable.
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It's even worse if you try and move the factory. When Commander got sold and tried to restart from a new location, it took nearly 2 years to get PMA for parts, much less approval to manufacture new. By the time the FAA approvals started to come around, the economy went south and the market evaporated.

Very tough market for new, unless it's a frax.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
An SR22T is not as fast as an Acclaim Type S at all. The Acclaim is 30-40 kts faster.

So my question would be why are so many people buying Cirri when you could buy an Acclaim for the same money?
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Another factor is esthetics. The Cirrus "feels" like the Lexus they just stepped out of. The Mooney, while nice, still had traditional "airplane" appointments. Two doors also helped, I think.
 
Ron Levy said:
Because you cannot today buy a new Mooney Acclaim? Or maybe the folks buying those new planes can't stand the insurance requirements on a very high performance retractable?
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The question required that Mooney be sellling planes. I'd be curious how much worse the insurance really is. For someone who can afford either one, I suspect it's not a big deal.
 
LDJones said:
Another factor is esthetics. The Cirrus "feels" like the Lexus they just stepped out of. The Mooney, while nice, still had traditional "airplane" appointments. Two doors also helped, I think.
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I'd say that's the #1 reason Cirrus sells so well. I'd still buy the Mooney. :)
 
supernovae said:
What are the odds of Mooney starting back up again? And if they do restart, do you think they too would be at the hands of a Chinese company?

Several false starts in the early 2000s, are people just not interested in their aircraft these days?
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The US legal system is a mess. Lots of bottom feeding attorneys looking for any reason to gin up a lawsuit. This in turn drives the insurance industry to keep ramping up their rates. Product Liability is a huge part of manufacturing an airplane. Every airplane that goes out the factory door is a potential lawsuit in the making and with ever increasing insurance premiums and the factory being one lawsuit away from closing their doors why bother?
 
Ted DuPuis said:
An SR22T is not as fast as an Acclaim Type S at all. The Acclaim is 30-40 kts faster.

So my question would be why are so many people buying Cirri when you could buy an Acclaim for the same money?
Click to expand...

When I was married I had my ex get into an Ovation. She got out and said "No way. Stay with a Cirrus." She's also a pilot and hated climbing over a seat to get in. Two doors are a big deal. Also the interior is roomier, the view out is much better and of course there is the chute. I doubt insurance is different enough to be a big deciding factor. I liked the fit and finish of the Mooney and they are very pretty, fast and economical. However, the panel certainly was old school in terms of ergonomics and I had forgotten how low the Cirrus glareshield is compared to other planes.
 
RotorAndWing said:
The US legal system is a mess. Lots of bottom feeding attorneys looking for any reason to gin up a lawsuit. This in turn drives the insurance industry to keep ramping up their rates. Product Liability is a huge part of manufacturing an airplane. Every airplane that goes out the factory door is a potential lawsuit in the making and with ever increasing insurance premiums and the factory being one lawsuit away from closing their doors why bother?
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Taking years for the FAA to approve restart of production doesn't help.
 
RotorAndWing said:
When you say "restart of production" are you referring to the current line or new models?
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I suspect if they can't afford to ramp up current models, there's little chance of them getting a new design completed and through certification. That's a pretty spendy process these days.
 
Geico266 said:
What? And miss out on an RV-10?

You are sure are a slow learner. :rofl::rofl::rofl:
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:rofl:

Yeah, I'm still stuck in the dark ages. That's why I fly an old twin.
 
LDJones said:
I suspect if they can't afford to ramp up current models, there's little chance of them getting a new design completed and through certification. That's a pretty spendy process these days.
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Agreed. But if all of your profits are going to insurance companies to fight off greedy bottom feeding lawyers then it really doesn't make sense to manufacture a product.
 
RotorAndWing said:
Agreed. But if all of your profits are going to insurance companies to fight off greedy bottom feeding lawyers then it really doesn't make sense to manufacture a product.
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No argument. Our tort system is so out of whack it's affecting every segment of our economy...for the worse, not the better.
 
wsuffa said:
Both

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2
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Restart of production is not that big of a deal, they already have everything in place.

New models? With the cost of R&D coupled with out of sight insurance and a dwindling market of buyers, why bother?
 
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