Any Border Collie Owners? or herding breed

cocolos

cocolos

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cocolos
I am looking for a new dog. I am curious if any members have border collies? If you do could you give me some tips/advice before getting one. I am looking at getting one to do either agility or search and rescue work. Any thoughts on how much space they need? What of routine exercise they need? Is it roughly 2 hrs of working with them per day?

Thanks
 
I had one years ago when I lived in the country. They are just wonderful intelligent dogs but they must have room to run and be played with. They want to be active! They are not city dogs ! You must spend time outdoors with them. They miss nothing. Very bright! The great outdoors is bred into them. Very territorial. I kept my Cessna 140 in the backyard. He loved to fly right seat, watched me intently if I started for the plane as he wanted to go! Also, master of the frisbee!
 
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Satisfying their physical and intellectual needs are a must. Once you're ready for that, they can be wonderful companions and a joy to watch work.

Consider spending time with the local collie rescue or breeder to gain knowledge and exposure.
 
Border collies are rated a "100" on a 1-100 scale for trainability by the AKC. This means that the dog is smarter than most small children you see running around in public places that were untrainable by their parents to behave.

Ha. Ok, joking aside, the rating is real. My dog trainer describes it this way...

"The bulldog will take lots of extra time to learn, but can be trained. The German Shepherd, Labs, and Golden Retrievers will stay in the yard behind the gate and learn anything you can take time to teach them. The Border Collie will watch you open the gate and after you've left them for a few minutes, will open it themselves and come looking for you."

They're bred to be incredibly smart dogs and self-willed so they can handle a herd of livestock by themselves. If they don't have a job that you take them to perform daily, they will make up their own jobs, like tunneling under a fence, just to prove they can do it.

They need work and lots of it. If you can't devote 365 days a year to the mental well-being of an animal bred to work outdoors, every day, in any weather, look at a different breed. You don't get a day off with a Border Collie.

Those that seriously devote their personal time completely to these dogs, reap great rewards. Those that neglect them or leave them alone with their minds racing to find things to do, will regret it. They must have a job.

An ex-co-worker and friend, now in Atlanta, has two. He competes or trains every day of the week, no exceptions, or takes them to visit other high-energy dog owners who will watch them and maintain the activity level if he needs to travel. He's got both dogs competing in both Dock Diving and Agility events and that barely keeps the most active one satisfied.

They are on he extreme high end of energy level and intelligence. If you're not ready to keep up, don't get one.

I can tell you from watching a friend who has working SAR dogs, he works with them more than an average of two hours per day to even keep them competent. Two hours is a light day. He typically takes the dogs to SAR training events once or twice a month for an entire weekend, besides the two hours per day. He uses German Shepherds which are orders of magnitude less active and smart than a Border Collie.

The friend in Atlanta that works two of them is skinnier than I've ever seen him.
 
I'll also throw this out there. Adopt. And consider a mixed breed if looking a working dog breeds. Mixed with something that knows how to mellow out a bit. There's no shortage of dogs being put to death just because their owner wouldn't commit to learning dog behavior and working with professional trainers when behavior went wrong.

We have an interesting pup right now. We figured he was a mix of German Shorthaired Pointer and something much larger. Great Dane, Mastiff, Pyrenees, something big. He's about 75 lbs.

Turns out he's a hunting breed, maybe even a purebred, German Munsterlander. Fairly rare here in the States... The breeders only sell them to active hunters. They're intended to be mixed bird dogs and ground hunting dogs.

Ours was obviously bought by some idiot who thought it would make a good family pet. Pound said they had a new baby and crated the dog a minimum of 10 hours a day, and little to no obedience training. We got him when he was just over one year old.

He needs a lot of activity and also needs a companion to do it with. He's a Velcro-dog like many bird dogs. He will go check something out, but returns and indoors he must be in the same room as the highest ranking pack member (in his head, he thinks that's me, but we know Karen is really the alpha of the house!), and it took months of consistent submission training and eight weeks of obedience training with a professional before we considered him *partially* trained. He's now a little over two years old.

We only recently figured out the breed. If we had known, I would have started him immediately into hunting/gun dog training to give him a better sense of job and accomplishment. He's doing fine as a family pet, but he will always have more energy than we do by a small margin. We have no kids so we can devote lots of time to him.

Now consider this: He's nowhere even close to being as bright or as active as a Border Collie. For every notch of activity level and smarts above where he's at, you have to keep up and be ahead of the needs of a smarter and more active dog.
 
I rescued a purebred Border Collie puppy 12 years ago. He's sitting by my feet right now.

As a puppy, he was extremely active and I played outdoors with him an hour or two a day, working with him on retrieval skills with a tennis ball, teaching him to catch a Frisbee, and on general obedience skills. He is a very fast learner, and picked up on some skills after one training session. He's the only dog I've been around who easily picked up on hand signals and who will go potty on command.

Bottom line, he required a LOT of time as a puppy, but that time was very well rewarded.

As he got some years under his belt, he required a little less interaction, but was still a very active dog until he was at least 10. Now that he's 12, I've dialed back his activity level because he tends to come up gimpy if he plays ball or Frisbee, so we mostly do light agility and leashed walks.

Great dog, obedient, a willing learner, etc.

One thing - herding dogs are not great around small children because they instinctively want to herd the children. My BC has "cornered" a few small children who were frightened by his actions. No teeth or nipping, but he very adroitly maneuvered them into a corner, which they didn't appreciate.

As others have said, don't get a Border Collie unless you have some serious time to devote to the dog. They are active and can be intense. If you're not prepared for that, neither you or the dog will be happy. This is why so many BC's end up in rescue.
 
Get a small flock of sheep and they will keep the dog occupied for hours. They need to be busy all the time.
 
kyleb said:
. . . .

One thing - herding dogs are not great around small children because they instinctively want to herd the children. My BC has "cornered" a few small children who were frightened by his actions. No teeth or nipping, but he very adroitly maneuvered them into a corner, which they didn't appreciate.

. . . .
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On the other hand, if the kids are on the hyper side and the border collies are good-natured (which every one I ever met was), it can be a lot of fun to watch. I used to have a business client who had border collies, and once in a while I'd do a job at his home in Sands Point, Long Island. He had a huge yard, and the neighbor kids would come over and play various running games with his kids -- and the dogs. It was funny to watch from the second-floor window. The farther away from each other the kids got, the harder the dogs tried to keep them all together.

Informal soccer games were especially funny to watch because the border collies would herd the balls as well as the kids. From up above, it looked like the dogs were playing soccer with the kids. I suspect they could have been trained to score goals if someone had taken the time to teach them that the ball belonged in the net.

I live alone at the moment, I don't have the time to devote to a dog, and I travel to a lot to places where a dog wouldn't be especially welcome; so I don't have a dog. But if I were younger, had a big enough yard, still had small children (especially hyper ones who needed their batteries run down), and were still married to or in a relationship with someone who was willing to invest the time and energy in such an intelligent and naturally hyper pet, border collies would be high on my short list.

-Rich
 
We bought two Border Collies back in 07'. We live way out in the country. We did not train them. We ended up giving one away because they would run off together. The one we kept is a great watch dog and stays near home. She loves to herd anything with an engine or something that rotates like a lawn mower/tractor/5' tiller/wheelbarrow. She enjoys catching water from a hose or rocks being thrown out of the garden. She can outlast us and my time on the tractor. She will go until she can hardly go anymore. Dogs in the past would lose interest after a short while of the same activity, not her. They hardly barked until we picked up our pound puppy- Brown Lab/Akita mix in 2010. She still barks very little in the day, but definitely will at night if something is nearby. With proper training, I believe she could fly.
 
You should also look at Australian Shepherds. Great dogs. Same rules apply.
 
Our daughter's boyfriend has a Blue Healer, great herding dog, but she wants/needs to have a job. If she has nothing to do, she will guard shoes or herd my dog away from the food bowl! :D She is smarter than most kids that I know, but she requires a lot of attention, not as much as when she was a puppy, but she likes to play and stay busy. Overall she's a great dog, just not a laid back watch TV kind of dog. ;)

Gary F said:
You should also look at Australian Shepherds. Great dogs. Same rules apply.
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Cocolos; what other breeds are you interested in?
 
I have a lazy dog so to speak and I just want one to do more active stuff with me like I said either doggy sports or SAR work. I am worried I don't have the space for it though.

N747JB said:
Our daughter's boyfriend has a Blue Healer, great herding dog, but she wants/needs to have a job. If she has nothing to do, she will guard shoes or herd my dog away from the food bowl! :D She is smarter than most kids that I know, but she requires a lot of attention, not as much as when she was a puppy, but she likes to play and stay busy. Overall she's a great dog, just not a laid back watch TV kind of dog. ;)
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I jut got a new pup and strongly looked at a pure bred Border Collie. I have a few friends with them. If you want an agility dog they can't be beat but if you do not have at LEAST a full hour a day minimum to work with them and room for them to run...forget it! I live in a typical neighborhood and my neighbor has a full Border Collie and the poor thing is a mess. Small yard and they don't do much with her.

I ended up with a Border Collie/Lab mix and he has been perfect for me. 5 months old and so far has the best of both breeds. The intelligence of the Collie but the personality of the Lab. I wanted an active and smart dog but knew a full breed would be too much. I am lucky that I have a huge wilderness park and a beach I can get him down to every day otherwise he would be bonkers...He is almost too smart for his own good...highly trainable!

Full breed are great if you have the time, space and energy, otherwise consider a mix.
 
Mixed breeds can still do more active stuff. And you get the benefit of a healthier dog and less OCD'ness of the purebreds.

Go visit some of the local rescue organizations near to you. Lots of great people involved with dog rescue that can help you learn more about the breeds and their needs. Plus a great chance for you to be with the dogs until you find one who adopts you.

And as far as your "lazy dog", try engaging them in more activities and play. Could be there is a more active dog in there that you just need to unlock.
 
Border Collies are the most intense dogs I've ever had, actually, my ex wife has her. They are happiest as companion dogs for people who want/need a smart and active dog. They aren't very good if you want a "pet it and forget it" dog. Phinis is with my ex 24-7.
 
If you're interested in the herding breed another one to consider is a Sheltie. I work as a volunteer and foster for a local Sheltie rescue. Border Collies are definitely more driven and probably a bit smarter, but Shelties rank pretty high up there as well. They do well in agility when trained, and they love to have a job or be mentally challenged, too. However, they're a bit (or sometimes a lot) smaller. My 8 y/o female is on the larger side at 30 lbs. She will fetch a tennis ball until she's worn herself completely out. The males that I've fostered tend to be more laid back and require a bit less activity.
 
I am waiting back to hear back from local collie rescue organization near me.

I actually do a bit of stuff with him, e.g. 1-2 mile walks and catch at home, but he is a chihuahua/doxen/... mix so don't wanna over exert him with long hikes.

AggieMike88 said:
Mixed breeds can still do more active stuff. And you get the benefit of a healthier dog and less OCD'ness of the purebreds.

Go visit some of the local rescue organizations near to you. Lots of great people involved with dog rescue that can help you learn more about the breeds and their needs. Plus a great chance for you to be with the dogs until you find one who adopts you.

And as far as your "lazy dog", try engaging them in more activities and play. Could be there is a more active dog in there that you just need to unlock.
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Border collies and Aussie Shepherds -- two sides of the same canine coin. Wonderful dogs, devoted, eager to please, highly energetic, but unless you have a job for them to do full-time, they'll invent one for themselves, and it will probably be destructive. Definitely not a dog to be left in an apartment all day alone, but if you want to get into dog frisbee, obedience, agility, fly-ball or the like, there's no better choice.
 
My next dog after the boarder collie passed on was a black lab I named Howard Hughes. Howard liked to swim a lot, liked popcorn while staring intently at TV, good at frisbee and without training good at breaking thin ice and retrieving geese. Howard also enjoyed the Cessna 140 but not like the boarder collie. Both were very near human. At night, both very protective.
 
Ron Levy said:
... unless you have a job for them to do full-time, they'll invent one for themselves, and it will probably be destructive. Definitely not a dog to be left in an apartment all day alone...
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I see/hear this often and don't know if it is true or an OWT that is frequently repeated. I'm sure a BC which gets bored and eats the sofa gets much more publicity than the one which doesn't. Mine has never been destructive and he's had free range in our houses for 11 years, with his "mom" and "dad" out of the house (at work) for 10-12 hours a day.
 
mark.staggs said:
If you're interested in the herding breed another one to consider is a Sheltie. I work as a volunteer and foster for a local Sheltie rescue. Border Collies are definitely more driven and probably a bit smarter, but Shelties rank pretty high up there as well. They do well in agility when trained, and they love to have a job or be mentally challenged, too. However, they're a bit (or sometimes a lot) smaller. My 8 y/o female is on the larger side at 30 lbs. She will fetch a tennis ball until she's worn herself completely out. The males that I've fostered tend to be more laid back and require a bit less activity.
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I would second that. I have had a couple Shelties in my former life and, while they were smart and very trainable, they were not as hyper or in need of constant activity as what I have seen of Border Collies.
 
I think I am going to foster a border collie from our local collie rescue.
 
cocolos said:
I think I am going to foster a border collie from our local collie rescue.
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I rescued a border collie from a family with two young children that he would herd so hard as to knock them over, repeatedly. The family couldn't keep him from doing it either. So after 5 years, they offered him to me.
His only problem was he ate like he never saw food before. Unfortunately, not just his food but my other two's as well. He has bulked up but with activity, is keeping his boyish figure; that is if round can be considered a figure. He loves chasing a ball, frisbie, ring, or wobble toy. The yard is 100'x30', fenced, and enough for him to get full tilt. Daily, for an hour or so.
 
kyleb said:
I see/hear this often and don't know if it is true or an OWT that is frequently repeated. I'm sure a BC which gets bored and eats the sofa gets much more publicity than the one which doesn't. Mine has never been destructive and he's had free range in our houses for 11 years, with his "mom" and "dad" out of the house (at work) for 10-12 hours a day.
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The most recent addition to our line of dogs is a half-Aussie/half-Border Collie who was turned in to the local shelter for exactly the behavior I described when left alone in an apartment. He is now in our house with two other dogs, and his anxiety level has dropped precipitously. YMMV, but I wouldn't chance leaving one alone in a small domicile -- just not fair to the dog.
 
Family on the farm has had a succession of border collies. Used to go riding the quad out in the fields, full-speed, with the dog in heaven running alongside.
 
cocolos said:
I think I am going to foster a border collie from our local collie rescue.
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That's a good way to see if the breed and personalities fit you. I did that for a short period with a few labs and figured out that while nice dogs, they weren't the breed for me.

Then later fostered an anatolian shepherd for a week until the failure point where I adopted her. Excellent dog for my personality and activity level.

Knew something was right when she immediately made Capt. Ron her newest best friend.
 
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The best dog that ever lived, my late Aussie named Crash. He was my most reliable hiking buddy.
 

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AggieMike88 said:
That's a good way to see if the breed and personalities fit you. I did that for a short period with a few labs and figured out that while nice dogs, they weren't the breed for me.



Then later fostered an anatolian shepherd for a week until the failure point where I adopted her. Excellent dog for my personality and activity level.



Knew something was right when she immediately made Capt. Ron her newest best friend.
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Did you name her "Chief" or "Counsel"? Heh heh heh. :)
 
JeffDG said:
Family on the farm has had a succession of border collies. Used to go riding the quad out in the fields, full-speed, with the dog in heaven running alongside.
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Real good environment for an Aussie or Border Collie. Just remember that they'll try to herd anything they can, including sheep, horses, donkeys, llamas, geese, or small children, and sometimes (especially with donkeys) that can go very badly for the dog. Be prepared to spend the effort to teach them the rules of engagement so they do not end up canus non grata at the farm (as our current Aussie/Border Collie Ned Kelly did at the stable where Fran keeps her horse).
 
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I had a sheltie years ago named Malcolm. I trained up to advanced obedience for fun. He was very attentive and smart but not hyper. He was sold as a pet puppy be ause he was too big. He was 15" at the shoulders. I loved that dog. Might get in touch Mark when the time comes for me to replace my getting older chihuahua mix thing from the humane society.

Also, Malcolm's off lead hand signal training saved his life one day. He was across the street at the neighbors and I called him to come. As he was running to me a car came screaming around the curve just as he was about to cross the street. I signaled him and he dropped to a down/stay and the car blew by. Otherwise he'd have been run over. I wanted to shoot that driver but was glad the sheltie knew his stuff.
 
We have two corgis...very loyal, but crazy
 
denverpilot said:
Did you name her "Chief" or "Counsel"? Heh heh heh. :)
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Funny...

no, I kept the name she had from the kennel, "Sugar".

Which has some Irony as I'm on the SI for DM2.

So since she is getting me out of the house and walking 30-45 minutes a night, I'm slowly losing mid-torso ballast, and my finger stick numbers are improving. So I guess I could say that too much of one sugar got me into the DM2 mess, and now the right amount of a new "Sugar" is gonna get me out of it.
 
Our Labradoodle is the best dog we've ever had. She'll run, jump, fetch, as long as you like but is happy to lay around and be lazy too. Easy to train and perfectly obedient. Loves to ride in the back seat of the Mooney. She never needs a leash regardless of what we're doing or where we are. Not spooked by anything. The poodle in her means a hypoallergenic coat that doesn't shed. She's standard size and can get in and out of the convertible without opening the door. I just say "let's go" and she'll trot over to the car and easily jump in clearing the door and drivers seat to her side. Very athletic and agile without the need to constantly be working.


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Gsxrpilot said:
Our Labradoodle is the best dog we've ever had. She'll run, jump, fetch, as long as you like but is happy to lay around and be lazy too. Easy to train and perfectly obedient. Loves to ride in the back seat of the Mooney. She never needs a leash regardless of what we're doing or where we are. Not spooked by anything. The poodle in her means a hypoallergenic coat that doesn't shed. She's standard size and can get in and out of the convertible without opening the door. I just say "let's go" and she'll trot over to the car and easily jump in clearing the door and drivers seat to her side. Very athletic and agile without the need to constantly be working.
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My inlaws have a Labradoodle. He's the size of a Shetland Pony, and is a really well behaved dog - good with kids, obedient, and enjoys his playtime too. I'd definitely consider one, but a Labradoodle is a very different dog ownership experience than a BC.
 
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