Any aviation Entrepreneurs on here, or entrepreneurs in general?

calberto

Pre-takeoff checklist
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Calberto
I'm starting an aviation business. Are there any other aviation entrepreneurs on here, or just entrepreneurs?

Brokers, e-commerce businesses, restaurant owners, etc. Just curious! Would love to connect with you.
 
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I have owned 12 airplanes all together. Right now I own a 172, J-3 Cub and Pitts Model 12. I made enough profit on the 9 airplanes I sold to pay cash for the 3 I own now. Worked out pretty well.
I may buy a few more soon just to resell.
 
Why limit it to aviation entrepreneurs? I think we fail to learn from other successful businesses many times in the aviation world.
 
Why limit it to aviation entrepreneurs? I think we fail to learn from other successful businesses many times in the aviation world.
You're right! I'll change the title.
 
I have owned 12 airplanes all together. Right now I own a 172, J-3 Cub and Pitts Model 12. I made enough profit on the 9 airplanes I sold to pay cash for the 3 I own now. Worked out pretty well.
I may buy a few more soon just to resell.
That's awesome! What's the hardest part about selling for you?
 
That's awesome! What's the hardest part about selling for you?
Dealing with people who want something, but don't know what they want, if they are ready to commit, and the real value range of the product.
 
Dealing with people who want something, but don't know what they want, if they are ready to commit, and the real value range of the product.
What does your process look like for filtering that out? I've heard a lot of people complain about that actually.
 
My husband and I own a small flight school. Right now we've got four airplanes and are actively seeking another flight instructor to take some of the load off of me as I am the main CFI and accountant. We've only been in business since January 1st but so far it's been an adventure. Started with really just one airplane, walked into a great deal on a second, added our personal airplane to the insurance and then again walked into a great deal on a 4th that we couldn't pass up. We also submitted paperwork yesterday to get an LOA for two different sightseeing destinations in our area.
 
What does your process look like for filtering that out? I've heard a lot of people complain about that actually.
Sales 101. Ask qualifying questions.
How long have you been looking for this item?
Who else have you talked to? (or What online sources are you looking at?)
Why haven't you made a purchase yet?
How soon do you need the item?
If you find the right item, what are you expecting to pay?
What other criteria is influencing your buying decision?
Do you want to pick that up at my facility or do I need to deliver/ship it?​
 
My husband and I own a small flight school. Right now we've got four airplanes and are actively seeking another flight instructor to take some of the load off of me as I am the main CFI and accountant. We've only been in business since January 1st but so far it's been an adventure. Started with really just one airplane, walked into a great deal on a second, added our personal airplane to the insurance and then again walked into a great deal on a 4th that we couldn't pass up. We also submitted paperwork yesterday to get an LOA for two different sightseeing destinations in our area.

That's awesome! What's been your biggest struggle so far? And are you part 61?
 
Sales 101. Ask qualifying questions.
How long have you been looking for this item?
Who else have you talked to? (or What online sources are you looking at?)
Why haven't you made a purchase yet?
How soon do you need the item?
If you find the right item, what are you expecting to pay?
What other criteria is influencing your buying decision?
Do you want to pick that up at my facility or do I need to deliver/ship it?​

Okay that makes good sense. Is this what you do for your salvage business?
 
That's awesome! What's been your biggest struggle so far? And are you part 61?

We are part 61 right now but we're working toward 141 accreditation.

I'd say our biggest struggle at the moment is instructor availability. We both have full-time jobs (his is out of state) so I am the only primary CFI. Fortunately my full-time job is at the airport and my commute is reasonable. We have one contract CFI who helps out when I really need it or when I'm away (like when we got married 10 days ago) but I'm really it. We're not quite at the point where we can have a good load for another full-time so we're looking in the area for people we already know who have other flying jobs. We have a couple of promising candidates but nothing set in stone yet. Yet some weeks I fly 4 times a day six days a week... The largest money struggles are insurance based though. It's so incredibly expensive. Since we've gotten our airplanes a couple months apart we've paid pro-rated amounts on the later airplanes but come November we will have a 5 figure insurance bill.... So yeah, finding help and finding enough work for the help and insurance are the biggest struggles right now.
 
That's awesome! What's the hardest part about selling for you?

I go about this a little different than anyone else. The planes I have sold and did well on were all very high performance aerobatic airplanes. You can't buy a 172 or Cherokee and expect to make money. I actually sold several planes for over twice as much as I had invested in them. I buy planes I like and don't mind keeping. I have sold about 5 planes and never put them on the market, people are either looking and I contact them or they just walk up and make a offer. I do not have time to deal with fools and don't do it. If I shoot out a price that is the price.... If you don't want it I will happily keep flying it. I can tell in the first 10 seconds if someone is serious or not. I love the 3 planes I have now but when someone comes up with the right offer anything is for sale.
There is one member on here that likes to kick lots of tires. If you let someone waste your time they sure will because this guy did it to me on several occasions.
He had a post and was looking for a nice Cherokee. My hangar neighbor had one for sale that was mint and priced right. I was just trying to help the POA member find a plane and not making a dime. I spent 2 days taking pictures, gathering information and scanning logs. I got all this stuff and gave him a call. He was the RUDEST guy I have ever spoke to and he pretty much hung up in my face! I learned a important lesson there... Do not bend over backwards to help anyone! There are lots of selfish people out there!
So if I have a plane for sale now I just tell people the basics and if they are interested they can come look.... If they don't want to look I guess they are not interested...
 
Entrepreneur here, but in the tech space (built search engines), never in the aviation domain. Now that I'm flying, I'm more interested in opportunities to use my tech skills to solve aviation-related problems.
 
Sales 101. Ask qualifying questions.
How long have you been looking for this item?
Who else have you talked to? (or What online sources are you looking at?)
Why haven't you made a purchase yet?
How soon do you need the item?
If you find the right item, what are you expecting to pay?
What other criteria is influencing your buying decision?
Do you want to pick that up at my facility or do I need to deliver/ship it?​

Okay that makes good sense. Is this what you do for your salvage business?
 
I go about this a little different than anyone else. The planes I have sold and did well on were all very high performance aerobatic airplanes. You can't buy a 172 or Cherokee and expect to make money. I actually sold several planes for over twice as much as I had invested in them. I buy planes I like and don't mind keeping. I have sold about 5 planes and never put them on the market, people are either looking and I contact them or they just walk up and make a offer. I do not have time to deal with fools and don't do it. If I shoot out a price that is the price.... If you don't want it I will happily keep flying it. I can tell in the first 10 seconds if someone is serious or not. I love the 3 planes I have now but when someone comes up with the right offer anything is for sale.
There is one member on here that likes to kick lots of tires. If you let someone waste your time they sure will because this guy did it to me on several occasions.
He had a post and was looking for a nice Cherokee. My hangar neighbor had one for sale that was mint and priced right. I was just trying to help the POA member find a plane and not making a dime. I spent 2 days taking pictures, gathering information and scanning logs. I got all this stuff and gave him a call. He was the RUDEST guy I have ever spoke to and he pretty much hung up in my face! I learned a important lesson there... Do not bend over backwards to help anyone! There are lots of selfish people out there!
So if I have a plane for sale now I just tell people the basics and if they are interested they can come look.... If they don't want to look I guess they are not interested...

I like it. You've pretty much just reserved your attitude to only allow people that are REALLY interested approach you about the plane.
 
Entrepreneur here, but in the tech space (built search engines), never in the aviation domain. Now that I'm flying, I'm more interested in opportunities to use my tech skills to solve aviation-related problems.
Are you a coder by trade then?
 
I started my (non-aviation) company in 1990. I had a wife and new baby and nobody would hire me in the dismal economy of that time. Leveraged everything I had to do it. It was the scariest yet most exciting thing I've ever done. So far so good.
 
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I started my (non-aviation) company in 1990. I had a wife and new baby and nobody would hire me in the dismal economy of that time. Leveraged everything I had to do it. It was the scariest yet most exciting thing I've ever done. So far so good.
Awesome! What kind of business is it, if you don't mind me asking? You can message me if you'd prefer to keep it off the public thread.
 
Also, I wrote this post yesterday about the benefits of inbound marketing and what it is. I tailored it towards aircraft brokerages, but it shows the benefits of inbound/content marketing in general and could be helpful for any business.

http://www.airplanebuyersclub.com/5-reasons-why-inbound-marketing-can-help-your-aircraft-brokerage/

Nice post, especially reason #1. There are a number of examples of this on PoA. By educating us, someone can demonstrate their domain expertise, and thus gain trust.

Deceptive tactics or hard sell techniques, on the other hand, reduce trust. Take, for example, Amazon. Their storefront used to be an example of interfaces done correctly; clean and simple and straightforward. Lately, however, they do not miss an opportunity to upsell, and their checkout process seems to be designed to maximize the probability of user error in their favor. I think clickbaity headlines and CTA popovers reduce trust, for the same reasons.

Don't subscribe to the SEO cargo cult fallacy of "successful sites have these properties, therefore if my site has these properties, my site will be successful". If you have compelling content that adds value, the users will come to you.
 
Nice post, especially reason #1. There are a number of examples of this on PoA. By educating us, someone can demonstrate their domain expertise, and thus gain trust.

Deceptive tactics or hard sell techniques, on the other hand, reduce trust. Take, for example, Amazon. Their storefront used to be an example of interfaces done correctly; clean and simple and straightforward. Lately, however, they do not miss an opportunity to upsell, and their checkout process seems to be designed to maximize the probability of user error in their favor. I think clickbaity headlines and CTA popovers reduce trust, for the same reasons.

Don't subscribe to the SEO cargo cult fallacy of "successful sites have these properties, therefore if my site has these properties, my site will be successful". If you have compelling content that adds value, the users will come to you.
Love it. @GeorgeC Are you an entrepreneur, also?
 
Love it. @GeorgeC Are you an entrepreneur, also?

No; both my father-in-law and dad were, but apparently that gene skipped over my wife and I. I've just been in the software sausage factory for longer than I care to admit.
 
Yep.. self-taught first, then when I thought I knew it all, I got my degree in computer science.
That's awesome! Do you still primarily work with search engines?
 
I've owned two aviation themed hotels since 2002, with each room a different era of aviation history.
That's amazing! Where are they? I'd love to stay there.
 
That's amazing! Where are they? I'd love to stay there.
Our current one (Amelias Landing) is in Port Aransas, Texas, on beautiful Mustang Island. See us on line and on Facebook.

Our original one was in Iowa City, IA. We sold it in 2012.

For over a year we ran both, but determined that two hotels 1200 miles apart was a bit much. We are 100% on the island now, having just completed a 5 year renovation of the property.

C'mon down!

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
 
Awesome! I'll have to get down there sometime. Is there an airport on the island?
 
Our current one (Amelias Landing) is in Port Aransas, Texas, on beautiful Mustang Island. See us on line and on Facebook.

Our original one was in Iowa City, IA. We sold it in 2012.

For over a year we ran both, but determined that two hotels 1200 miles apart was a bit much. We are 100% on the island now, having just completed a 5 year renovation of the property.

C'mon down!

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
We are hoping to get that way during our Honeymoon later this year!! We'll see, there is a lot of ground to cover in just two weeks in a little airplane :)
 
Awesome! I'll have to get down there sometime. Is there an airport on the island?
lol Would we open an aviation themed hotel on an island without an airport?

It's Mustang Beach Airport (KRAS), one of the prettiest places to land in America! Our hotel courtesy car awaits your reservation!
 
lol Would we open an aviation themed hotel on an island without an airport?

It's Mustang Beach Airport (KRAS), one of the prettiest places to land in America! Our hotel courtesy car awaits your reservation!
Good point ;P lol
 
Sales 101. Ask qualifying questions.
How long have you been looking for this item?
Who else have you talked to? (or What online sources are you looking at?)
Why haven't you made a purchase yet?
How soon do you need the item?
If you find the right item, what are you expecting to pay?
What other criteria is influencing your buying decision?
Do you want to pick that up at my facility or do I need to deliver/ship it?​

Heheh. I love that stuff. I'm usually on the receding end of these things when someone wants to sell me IT stuff for work.

"How long? Oh we're always looking at new technologies that make or save us money. Can yours?"

"Who else? I'm not at liberty to give specifics on other vendor's staff names but I can give brand names. [insert long list of industry standard names here... Cisco, Foundry, etc etc etc, even if I haven't talked to them yet. Because I will. Not going to let any vendor know I only have called them, so far, that's for sure.]"

"We haven't made a purchase yet because I don't have a written price quote in hand at a price that makes sense for our business."

"We don't need the item, we only need the item if it solves a problem that costs X. If the price of the item is too high, it may be wonderful but it costs more than the problem it's solving. So we aren't in any hurry unless the product meets the required price to make it a net win for us. I can afford the labor to deal with the old product up to a point."

"Labor to deal with the old product is about X hours and we pay that lower level tech staff approximately Y per hour. So I'd expect to pay generally less than that to solve the problem with technology, or the technology would need to save us more elsewhere or make us more elsewhere. Tell me how this thing will do that."

"We like this product [I won't lie...] but there are competitive products that do very similar things in this biz, and I'd need to know what yours can do that is different and how it helps our bottom line. If the product is modular, and the idea is to sell us additional feature sets, I need the price of those features in writing as options on this proposal."

"I'm not driving around to pick things up. I want it delivered and an option on the quote for full installation. Keep the numbers in mind above about my labor costs and don't insult me on your install price. We understand travel expenses may need to be rolled in, but don't get wild. I can install it myself or have staff do it if installation is too high."

I know I know. It's not auto parts, but I love it when salespeople know their side of the negotiation process and these questions start up. That's my cue to ask my own tough questions right back.

The good sales people will write down the needs and get back quickly after checking pricing.

The great sales people will know it off the top of their heads and get me a quote same day or next day.

The mediocre ones get the quote to me in a week.

And the bad ones, well, I have to call them to prompt them to get their job done.

I won't do that last one unless I really want that particular product's pricing and I'm already TICKED if I have to call them, so they're likely not to get the sale anyway.

In the end, IT or any sort of tech investment is about making or saving the company money and the stuff has a shelf life and renewal costs that eat the bottom line alive. Many large IT departments don't look at it this way and just want stuff to grow their "empire" but at a small place, I have to be ruthless about IT spending actually making the business itself stronger, not weaker.

The only IT purchases I'll allow to make us lose money are the ones mandatory for legal or contractual purposes, and OUR sales guys had better be charging correctly for our products to cover those.
 
The Inbound marketing blog was interesting, Sumo has been emailing quite a bit of info on it lately, along with some Linked In marketing groups.
I'm a full time Aircraft Broker in Az, we are a family business averaging 35-45 planes sold annually. http://kelmaraviation.biz/
Good luck on your aviation start up, working with other pilots, playing with airplanes, and hanging out at airports every day is a pretty rewarding career.
 
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