Another what would you do

[ron22]

Im on down wind past med feild bu not beam the number yet. Wife points out a twin at about 2:00. He is about the same distance from me as the runway. Twin calls truning left base now Im abeam the numbers.
What would you do?
I asked the Twin if he could extend his downwind a little. He said yes. Then I tuned base and landed in a smaller then normal final.

 

[bluesky74656]

If the twin was already turning base, I would have extended my downwind and let him go first. I don't know what kind of plane you were in, but I'd rather have the faster traffic in front of me and in sight than behind me as I'm on final.

 

[gismo]

If the twin was already turning base, I would have extended my downwind and let him go first. I don't know what kind of plane you were in, but I'd rather have the faster traffic in front of me and in sight than behind me as I'm on final.

That's what I was thinking as well. Ron didn't say what he was flying or what the relative speeds were but chances are the twin was flying considerably faster.

It's important to understand that faster airplanes must fly a wider pattern than is typical in a small plane.

So my reaction to the stated scenario would be to widen out my pattern and move in behind the twin. And whether it's a twin or single, I think that in general it's not a good idea to turn base inside another airplane that's ahead of you on downwind. At the very least you are going from you tracking him to him looking for you.

 

[KennyFlys]

I'd be happy to stay up and let the larger bird continue and land ahead of me. He's burning fuel twice as fast and somewhere along the way, he'll remember the favor.

When on or before entering downwind, it's always a good idea to look outside of your track as well as ahead and over the field. Larger traffic will usually be wider and if they happen to have a comm problem, all the more reason to be looking.

 

[Pegasus]

All of the above responses are right on. The twin was already ahead of you in the pattern, you should follow him.

 

[Geico266]

I agree with the above. Todd has it right, but you handled it well by contacting the twin.

If you were unable to contact him what would you have done?

Why did you not hear the twin announce before? Did you annouce 5-10 miles out? Did the twin?

 

[AdamZ]

And Yet another POAer agreeing with Todd. That said you did fine by communicating and since the communication acheived the desired result I can't say what you did was wrong.

Although I may have let the twin go in first. I'd certainly have called my position and let him know you had him insight.

 

[poadeleted20]

As long as the two aircraft communicate with each other and nobody is upset, both pilots did right.

 

[Everskyward]

I asked the Twin if he could extend his downwind a little. He said yes. Then I tuned base and landed in a smaller then normal final.

I'm curious about why you wanted to go first.

 

[ron22]

If I rember right the twin was not on base yet. He called turning base I belive it looked like he was still going straight on down wind. Not sure if this is right or if this is what I want to belive.
Why did I want to land first? My thinking at the time was he is going to turn left in front of me. So he would be going N-S and I would be going W-E this just did not seem like a good idea at the time.
I was not in a rush to get down or anything. The airport does not have taxi ways so I pulled off at the end of the runway to let him land.
If the twin would have said no or dont be stupid I will on the ground long before you I would have done something different.
I did second guess my choice and that is why I asked the question here. Now that everyone is safe on the ground time to learn from my mistakes. After reading all the respones I do agree I made the wrong choice.
Since I was in communicate with the twin and he agreed to my choice we were both able to land safely.
So thank you for all your options and next time I will be better prepaired.
Ron

 

[Everskyward]

If I rember right the twin was not on base yet. He called turning base I belive it looked like he was still going straight on down wind. Not sure if this is right or if this is what I want to belive.

Someone else mentioned that faster airplanes need to make their pattern a little wider. They also need to extend their downwind a little further than slower airplanes in order to give themselves a more reasonble final.

Why did I want to land first? My thinking at the time was he is going to turn left in front of me. So he would be going N-S and I would be going W-E this just did not seem like a good idea at the time.

Probably the better idea at that point would have been to widen out your pattern a little to follow the twin. There is no way you could have caught up to them. On the other hand, if the slower airplane goes first, you not only cannot see the faster airplane any more because it is behind you, but the faster airplane needs to judge their closure rate the whole way because they will be overtaking.

I did second guess my choice and that is why I asked the question here. Now that everyone is safe on the ground time to learn from my mistakes. After reading all the respones I do agree I made the wrong choice.

I'm not sure if "wrong" is the way to put it since it seems everything worked out OK, but it might not have been the best of choices.

Since I was in communicate with the twin and he agreed to my choice we were both able to land safely.

And that is the goal.

 

[wabower]

My observation for many pattern issues is that use of the the big knob can work wonders, whether at towered or untowered airports. If tower says they will call my base, I'm #2 behind a Baron on 4 mile final, I immediately reduce power, slow down and drop flaps a notch or two. My pattern size decreases significantly, the speed ratios (to the Baron) changes in my favor, and my actual turn point for base may not be that much different than previously planned.

Ditto non-tower. If the OP had just slowed and followed the faster airplane, it would have probably worked out within ten seconds of the same results.

Someone else mentioned that faster airplanes need to make their pattern a little wider. They also need to extend their downwind a little further than slower airplanes in order to give themselves a more reasonble final.
Probably the better idea at that point would have been to widen out your pattern a little to follow the twin. There is no way you could have caught up to them. On the other hand, if the slower airplane goes first, you not only cannot see the faster airplane any more because it is behind you, but the faster airplane needs to judge their closure rate the whole way because they will be overtaking.
I'm not sure if "wrong" is the way to put it since it seems everything worked out OK, but it might not have been the best of choices.
And that is the goal.

 

[bobmrg]

If I rember right the twin was not on base yet. He called turning base I belive it looked like he was still going straight on down wind. Not sure if this is right or if this is what I want to belive.
Why did I want to land first? My thinking at the time was he is going to turn left in front of me. So he would be going N-S and I would be going W-E this just did not seem like a good idea at the time.
I was not in a rush to get down or anything. The airport does not have taxi ways so I pulled off at the end of the runway to let him land.
If the twin would have said no or dont be stupid I will on the ground long before you I would have done something different.
I did second guess my choice and that is why I asked the question here. Now that everyone is safe on the ground time to learn from my mistakes. After reading all the respones I do agree I made the wrong choice.
Since I was in communicate with the twin and he agreed to my choice we were both able to land safely.
So thank you for all your options and next time I will be better prepaired.
Ron

I would transition to slow flight, a skill I had demonstrated on my checkride, to let the twin get ahead. The presence of others in the pattern might dictate the extent to which I would reduce speed.

Bob Gardner

 

[John Baker]

About a year ago, I was on left downwind in my Warrior at Thermal California. I too had not quite reached the numbers. A Citation jet called on unicom and said he was on five mile streight in final on the same runway. I was with my instructor who radiod back and told the jet that we would circle to the right and let him land first. Niether of us had the Citation in sight yet. I asked him why, he explained that it was primarily courtesy to let the fuel guzzler land first, rather than risk having him do a go around, while we were on the active.

John

 

[Geico266]

Ron, Why did not anyone talk to each other 10 miles out? The 1st time you knew he was in the area was whne you were both in the pattern?

 

[ron22]

Ron, Why did not anyone talk to each other 10 miles out? The 1st time you knew he was in the area was whne you were both in the pattern?

All four of us were making call. A Cessna 177 that landed before I entered the patern, Me, The Twin, and a 152 pulling up the rear.
Everyone made all the calls. Every time the twin called he was always behind me.
Again I think it was my not thinking of the speed differance. I would be willing to bet if I were to listen to the calls now I would notice he was closing the gap with each call.
After the fact I kind of wishing I went up to the Twin and talked to him about what happed.