Another Week, Another FBO Squawk - Should I ASRS?

VWGhiaBob

VWGhiaBob

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VWGhiaBob
Some of you may recall I've had numerous issues with planes at my FBO. Not a week goes by without me grounding a plane.

This week...once again...I rented a plane with a bad transponder and flew it in LA where Mode C is required. This is NOT the same plane that had a bad transponder two weeks ago (in another post).

This time, I noticed the transponder had been squawked 2 times in the past 2 weeks. However, both times, it was cleared by the FBO's maintenance. I took it up the day before my cross country to have the tower verify it...all was fine.

Here's my question: Yesterday in my cross country, the transponder started acting up 1/2 way through the flight (Flight Following told me...altimeter reading was on and off, and the plane was transmitting multiple codes). However, near the end of the flight, it cleared up again. On the way home, the issues got worse. I had to manually report my position and altitude to Flight Following for much of the trip...and then it started working again.

As I was handed off to each ATC Center, they each knew of my transponder issue before I told them...obviously, they were telling each other.

So my question is, Should I report this on the ASRS system? Technically, I flew into airspace requiring a Mode C with a transponder that was working at the time of takeoff, but had known potential issues. Technically, should I have stayed on the ground 75 miles from home?

I don't want to create a lot of paperwork, but I also don't want to get in trouble for my FBO's poor maintenance practices.

Thanks for your opinions and advice!
 
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What could other pilots possibly learn from this?

ATC was clearing you through, I don't see the issue.
 
Good god man.....................

rent from ANOTHER FBO....:mad2::yesnod:
 
To Ben...the other FBO's in my area have worse reputations. The one I rent from is the one where all the top flight instructors rent and trust. May just need to buy my own plane soon!
 
VWGhiaBob said:
To Ben...the other FBO's in my area have worse reputations. The one I rent from is the one where all the top flight instructors rent and trust. May just need to buy my own plane soon!
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Atta boy, that'll teach em.
 
bartmc said:
What could other pilots possibly learn from this?

ATC was clearing you through, I don't see the issue.
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Agreed, I think you have completed your end of the responsibility.
 
VWGhiaBob said:
To Ben...the other FBO's in my area have worse reputations. The one I rent from is the one where all the top flight instructors rent and trust. May just need to buy my own plane soon!
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I'm sure there's a handful of renters in your area that have similar thoughts/experiences. May be a good area to start a partnership/club with a good plane.
 
wouldn't bother...its a non-issue.
 
Airplanes break. That is a fact of life. It sounds like this incident was logged, looked at, fixed to the best of their knowledge, and returned to service. A lot of these issues cannot be replicated on the ground, or the pilot can't give a good enough description of what happened for the maintenance guys to follow up on. When I used to have a flight school I can't tell you how many times we had planes squawked with absolute no back story as to what was going on. I hope you are writing down what happened fort he maintenance guys. It makes figuring out the problem easier. Also, don't just tell the girl/guy at the front desk. Chances are the don't know enough about planes to be able to convey the issue.
 
N2124V...left a detailed description and e-mail for the FBO. This is the third report they have on the same plane.
 
Why does everybody want to run to mommy for everything. Planes break, tell the owner, don't like the maintanence go elsewhere, nowhere else choose flying or not. Simple.
 
VWGhiaBob said:
N2124V...left a detailed description and e-mail for the FBO. This is the third report they have on the same plane.
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And were reports 1 and 2 detailed or just "tx broken"? I flew a plane about a year ago that had a gremlin in the system. The radios worked great for about the first hour or so, then com 1 would quit, then transponder would go on the blink, but com 1 came back, etc. these are things that just can't be replicated on the ground. It's like with your car the, the problem goes away when you get it to the mechanic.
 
N2124v said:
And were reports 1 and 2 detailed or just "tx broken"? I flew a plane about a year ago that had a gremlin in the system. The radios worked great for about the first hour or so, then com 1 would quit, then transponder would go on the blink, but com 1 came back, etc. these are things that just can't be replicated on the ground. It's like with your car the, the problem goes away when you get it to the mechanic.
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Transponders are cheap. You're in LA airspace. Replace the thing and keep moving.
 
You took the plane up the day before and the transponder was fine,what should the FBO do if it was working the day before. ATC handled the problem and got you back to base. Stuff happens ,that's why we say time to spare go by air.
 
As someone who drives a VW, you should know that little electrical gremlins are everywhere, and not all of them are life threatening emergencies (in fact, very few of them are), and not all of them are easy to replicate or diagnose. Intermittents in particular are quite difficult, especially with poor communication.

I think you're overreacting. Rather significantly.

Read 14 CFR 91.215, particularly (d)(2). You can ask for an ATC approved deviation at any time. That includes 31 miles from LAX or sitting at the hold short line at VNY or inside the mode C veil if that's where you discover it's not working.

If you insist on an aircraft that is working perfectly in all regards at all times, you're not going to fly. There are a TON of aircraft out there with inop ADF or DME, LORAN bricks, burned out lights (OK for day VFR unless it's the anticollision light), ugly paint, maybe one of two nav/comms noisy, half worn tires or minor flat spots, etc. Some things are important. Some things are annoyances. Some things really don't matter.
 
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I'd suggest checking out that club/FBO that rents the DA40/20's. Sweet bird to fly, and the one I went up in was amazingly well maintained. They fly out of Bracket and El Monte.
 
Jeezus

It's really not that big of a deal man.

God knows how you're going to react when something really bad happens in flight :yikes:

Also can be hard to replicate Xpdr problems for mx staff to fix them, add to that students and renters half the time squak things because they don't understand systems or really understand aircraft, I'll look through the paper work on our planes and depending on who made the squak itll get a different reaction.
 
bartmc said:
Transponders are cheap. You're in LA airspace. Replace the thing and keep moving.
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Then why don't you go buy them for the flight school??

Got to understand how tight the bottom line can be in aviation
 
bartmc said:
What could other pilots possibly learn from this?

ATC was clearing you through, I don't see the issue.
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Neither do I. See 91.215(a), specifically the part about "Unless otherwise authorized or directed by ATC,..."

In any event, this isn't what ASRS was built for. As the others said, if you can't get them to give you airplanes that are fixed, find another source.
 
Archammer said:
Agreed, I think you have completed your end of the responsibility.
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Right. Remember it is possible to fly within the Mode C veil with a transponder completely out of service. Yes, it takes telephone coordination beforehand to secure ATC approval to do this. Kinda like a ferry permit.

-Skip
 
ChitDisturber said:
Then why don't you go buy them for the flight school??

Got to understand how tight the bottom line can be in aviation
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What's cheaper? Having the plane grounded 3,4,5 times and hiring a mechanic/avionics dude to sit around and dilly with a transponder or buying a $1500 refurbed unit and going on with life. How many shots at this does the repair guy get?

Theyll probably be out 2-3 grand to save 500 bucks with a line of frustrated customers to show for it.... And more than likely a new transponder in the end.

My faith in their mechanic and their commitment to the planes mx is going down exponentially every time the same item is squawked.
 
bartmc said:
What's cheaper? Having the plane grounded 3,4,5 times and hiring a mechanic/avionics dude to sit around and dilly with a transponder or buying a $1500 refurbed unit and going on with life. How many shots at this does the repair guy get?

Theyll probably be out 2-3 grand to save 500 bucks with a line of frustrated customers to show for it.... And more than likely a new transponder in the end.

My faith in their mechanic and their commitment to the planes mx is going down exponentially every time the same item is squawked.
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First off your numbers are a wee bit off.

I wish I made 2-3 thousand dollars every 2-5 flights LMBO!


I tend to trust people in the industry (in this case APs) more then a low time private pilot renter when it comes to wether or not I need to dish out thousands of dollars to replace my avionics.

Are other people refusing to fly this plane or is it mainly you?
 
Either they rent crap or you are hell on airplanes. Either way you might want to start to look for an airplane that you can maintain to your own standards.
 
ChitDisturber said:
First off your numbers are a wee bit off.

I wish I made 2-3 thousand dollars every 2-5 flights LMBO!


I tend to trust people in the industry (in this case APs) more then a low time private pilot renter when it comes to wether or not I need to dish out thousands of dollars to replace my avionics.

Are other people refusing to fly this plane or is it mainly you?
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The plane I used to rent was immaculately maintained. The first sign of a flaky comm, he pulled it and dropped a new one in. Today, he charges $65/hr wet for it, this is in rural Montana, not LAX. I think I rented it twice after I got my PPL, that was the last time I rented anything. My transponder went flaky flying from KORS to KMSO. The plane didn't take off again after I landed until a new transponder and alt encoder were installed. I don't fly POS. My plane is old, POS and maintenance deferred, it is not.

I didn't say 2-5 flights, I said 2-5 times. How many folks do you PO over that amount of time? I realize the fleet is old, and I can suck up a lot but when patterns start to develop. It's time to go somewhere else if they can't drop a refurbed transponder in.. ESPECIALLY being based inside the LAX Mode-C veil.

Honestly, I wouldn't fly if I had to rent. Owning is the only way to go. I like flying but as much as it costs and as much as it takes to stay current. There's no way I'm investing that sort of time and $ into begging an FBO to fix a transponder, being at the mercy of their mechanic and schedule, not being able to stay gone for a week or so and dealing with schedule conflicts etc.. etc.. etc.. I showed up for lesson numero uno knowing I was buying and searched for a plane during the entire duration of my PPL training.

You can not trust the PPL. After he's seen it squawked 3 times, he's not going to trust you either.
 
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