another pre-flight inspection question

gkaiser

gkaiser

Pre-takeoff checklist
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gkaiser
I was doing my pre-flight the other day and I was thinking about the exterior lights on the airplane. Why is it that I never see anybody turning on all exterior lights during their pre-flight to verify they are all working? I'd think this would be a good idea..i'd rather find a light bulb thats out + needs replacing during the daylight then during a preflight for a night flight...
 
I only do this for night flights. Even if one or more lights were out, it wouldn't stop me from making the flight during daytime anyway, so I don't see the point of checking. If I was going somewhere during the day, but planning to return at night, I would check the lights as part of my preflight.
 
I'm a renter btw. If it was my plane, then you have a good point about finding out during the day and getting it fixed so you don't have to scrub a night flight.
 
I always check all the lights on my preflight. I don't see why I wouldn't. I rent and so I like to help keep the plane in shape. I'd hate to have a canceled night flight because someone didn't check the light that was out.
 
I own my aircraft, and I check the lights if I'm going to fly at night. Otherwise, I don't worry about it so much. They aren't what I'd call easy to see in the daylight anyway.
 
Why put wear and tear on an item you know you aren't going to use for the flight.
 
Sac Arrow said:
Why put wear and tear on an item you know you aren't going to use for the flight.
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Hadn't though of it that way, but that is perfectly reasonable. Very few of my flights are at night, so that would be a lot of wear on the components to switch them on for every flight.
 
steingar said:
Hadn't though of it that way, but that is perfectly reasonable. Very few of my flights are at night, so that would be a lot of wear on the components to switch them on for every flight.
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True, but wouldn't you rather discover a landing light for example, or navigation light that's out during the daytime so you can replace it instead of having to cancel a night flight because it is inoperable?
 
Nothing ever fails on the outbound leg or the inbound preflight. Never. Ever.

gkaiser said:
True, but wouldn't you rather discover a landing light for example, or navigation light that's out during the daytime so you can replace it instead of having to cancel a night flight because it is inoperable?
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I like Kimberly's checklist method. I think she said that her checklist is a living document, constantly growing and evolving based on what she sees other pilots doing or not doing.

Seems to me that verifying the lights work should be on the checklist, since turning them on is part of the takeoff checklist.
 
I check all the lights, so that I catch them as soon as they've failed. This is a courtesy to other renters so that they don't end up "surprised" and cancelling a night flight for a light that's been out for days.

I will fly if the light isn't required, but it gets written up for corrective action and so that other folks know about it.
 
I own and it is on my checklist. If it is daytime, I sometimes only check the beacon, but I check all the lights at least every few times. I haven't done much night flying in a while, but as it starts getting darker earlier, I should probably get current.
 
Checking them for a day-only flight may not even be possible; how can you see your interior instrument lights, for example, during a daylight preflight? Often you can't.

This begs the appropriate question: do you do a post-flight?

Your post-flight should be at least as thorough as your preflight. This is also a good place to catch items that need servicing.
 
DouglasBader said:
Your post-flight should be at least as thorough as your preflight. This is also a good place to catch items that need servicing.
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Post flight inspections also give you reaction time to get the discrepancy repaired before you loose the next flight.
 
Sac Arrow said:
Why put wear and tear on an item you know you aren't going to use for the flight.
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(1) So you know if it's broken before you need it.

(2) To be a bit less selfish to the other renters (i.e., just because you won't be using it doesn't mean someone else won't that very evening).

(3) Because nonfunctional lights don't necessarily mean the bulb is blown. The worst case is an electrical fire! Far preferable on the ground to in the air, when you hit the switch accidentally because you're looking outside the aircraft like you should be.

(4) Because safe checklist practices mean doing the same thing every time. Or you risk skipping the light check that time when you really do need it.

Is that enough?
 
MAKG1 said:
(3) Because nonfunctional lights don't necessarily mean the bulb is blown. The worst case is an electrical fire! Far preferable on the ground to in the air, when you hit the switch accidentally because you're looking outside the aircraft like you should be.
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Good call, Makg, I never thought about the implications of a potential electrical issue because the bulb isn't working. There could be a short somewhere in the system, and when activated for an extending period of time at night time for example could lead to a fire. Very good reason to add bulb checks into my pre-flight routine. Obviously interior bulbs can't really be checked too easily but there is no reason why exterior bulbs can't be checked.
 
Because nonfunctional lights don't necessarily mean the bulb is blown. The worst case is an electrical fire! Far preferable on the ground to in the air, when you hit the switch accidentally because you're looking outside the aircraft like you should be.
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We launched a flight one night at a northern Iraq location, then headed out for the DFAC (mess hall). Moments later we saw the same flight returning to land, so we turned around and returned to our facility.

They were dark and without communication coming back in, because an electrical fire broke out, which set fire to the interior and burned up most of the wiring. Nobody got hurt, but the inside of the cockpit was fried, and smelled terrible.

They thought it was a burned out bulb, too.

Turned out, it wasn't.
 
I check all the lights for the same reason I check pitot-heat; I want to establish good habits.
 
I do check all lights, but I agree, this is the less common approach from all I've seen. That said, I have in the past year been told twice, on separate occasions in different airports, by a complete stranger, that they were impressed with the thoroughness of my preflight. Oddly enough, it takes less than ten minutes - and that's if I'm NOT in a hurry.
 
Rigged4Flight said:
I like Kimberly's checklist method. I think she said that her checklist is a living document, constantly growing and evolving based on what she sees other pilots doing or not doing.

Seems to me that verifying the lights work should be on the checklist, since turning them on is part of the takeoff checklist.
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Thanks. It was actually another pilot who reminded me that ONE light in particular - I must have - or even in daylight it is not legal to fly.

That is the beacon, and, I will admit, I never checked it. He was the one who noticed that day it didn't work. The IA was there and he just showed me which circuit breaker to take out and put back in. My next flight it didn't work, I looked, and the fuse was blown (type 15A fuse) so I went in the shop and got a new fuse and off we went.
 
When fuses blow, it's because something drew too much current. It would be wise to find out why it blew, not just replace the fuse.
 
denverpilot said:
So which one is broken? The fuse should be rated for both to operate simultaneously.
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Not sure, I've never used pitot heat. I wouldn't want to fly that 150 in weather that would make me need to either. I will try to remember to ask the IA next time I'm there but in this case the almost CFI that was flying with me went back to the shop, got the fuse, and put it in - it wasn't a 15A though - and we tested the beacon. They were out of 15A's but other fuses work. So my guess is the same thing was done last time and they are using the wrong fuses.
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
Not sure, I've never used pitot heat. I wouldn't want to fly that 150 in weather that would make me need to either. I will try to remember to ask the IA next time I'm there but in this case the almost CFI that was flying with me went back to the shop, got the fuse, and put it in - it wasn't a 15A though - and we tested the beacon. They were out of 15A's but other fuses work. So my guess is the same thing was done last time and they are using the wrong fuses.
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If they're using smaller ones, they'll just continue to blow until they buy the right size. They're a whopping $.35 or so...

If they're using larger, that's a fire hazard and shouldn't be done.
 
Nate, REPEATED blows would cause me concern. A random blow with no subsequent problems doesn't raise many flags. I would watch it fairly closely for awhile to make sure it didn't blow again and if it didn't, I would call it good.
 
Greg Bockelman said:
Nate, REPEATED blows would cause me concern. A random blow with no subsequent problems doesn't raise many flags. I would watch it fairly closely for awhile to make sure it didn't blow again and if it didn't, I would call it good.
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Yeah, I dunno... too much radio work has me having said that same thing for too many years, and it always blows again... and then a reason is found. Water ingress, bad cable shorting out, something...
 
I check mine before a night flight,

Also when checking landing/taxi or strobes I check them inside the plane and I can see the light bounce off the other hangars, if you do this outside the plane you tend to blind yourself right at night, kinda obvious but Ive seen quite a few folks do that.

Also while we are on the topic, dont be that guy that taxis with your strobes on, if you aint on the active or in the air keep em off :)
 
gkaiser said:
I was doing my pre-flight the other day and I was thinking about the exterior lights on the airplane. Why is it that I never see anybody turning on all exterior lights during their pre-flight to verify they are all working? I'd think this would be a good idea..i'd rather find a light bulb thats out + needs replacing during the daylight then during a preflight for a night flight...
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Why stress over this? In three years everyone (or at least the smart ones of the bunch) will have LED NAV lights, taxi lights and landing lights. Your chance of having to replace the bulbs are too slim to worry about. That said, they will more likely go out due to a bad switch or connection.

Gene
 
NineThreeKilo said:
Also while we are on the topic, dont be that guy that taxis with your strobes on, if you aint on the active or in the air keep em off :)
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Link to Ron's thread about "all available anti-collision lights must now be on at all times because the FAA Chief Counsel is a retard... in 3... 2... 1..."

:)

(No I'm not actually going to post the link... but if you missed the thread... the Chief Counsel may or may not, now think that ALL lights for anti-collision must be used at all times, unless there's a safety reason to turn them off... and on aircraft with both a red beacon and strobes, that may include the stupid strobes now, and you can make your own conclusions from there... or as they say, Your Mileage May Vary...)
 
There is a safety concern with having them on durning taxi and that's my size 11 up ones tail fin. Having those things on just plan flashes the heck out of everyone else, destroying your night vision. To me it's like putting a flashlight right into my cabin.
 
NineThreeKilo said:
Also when checking landing/taxi or strobes I check them inside the plane and I can see the light bounce off the other hangars, if you do this outside the plane you tend to blind yourself right at night, kinda obvious but Ive seen quite a few folks do that.
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How do you check them during the day? Can you see them from inside the plane, or do you have to leave the master switch and lights turned on, get out of the plane and walk around? Does that put undue strain on the battery?

Just wondering -- I have a grand total of 3.9 hours so far, so very limited pre-flight experience, and we haven't ever checked the lights other than making sure they're securely attached and not cracked-looking.
 
If its day time I go outside and look (and only if I think there is a chance I'll be flying after dark). Only having your master on and lights on long enough to take a gander shouldnt effect your battery a noticeable amount and if it does probably need to service/replace the battery.

What I said about checking the taxi, landing and strobes from inside the plane was just for checking the lights after dark.
 
NineThreeKilo said:
Also while we are on the topic, dont be that guy that taxis with your strobes on, if you aint on the active or in the air keep em off :)
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You want me to taxi with the anti-collision light off? Why? It's not like you can actually see the thing during the daytime.
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
You want me to taxi with the anti-collision light off? Why? It's not like you can actually see the thing during the daytime.
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Any chance you're mixing up the beacon or nav lights with the strobe? Strobes are BRIGHT. The beacon is not. Strobes are not required equipment, but they are common.
 
MAKG1 said:
Strobes are not required equipment,
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Depends on the airplane. For example, the Diamond Star does not have a beacon, so the strobes ARE the approved anti-collision lighting system.

That said, they get shut off as soon as the engine is started and the landing lights are on, for the reasons stated herein.
 
With all the talk about strobes on/off at night, I am glad I have the no night flying on my Medical so I don't get confused. :rolleyes:

Cheers
 
MAKG1 said:
Any chance you're mixing up the beacon or nav lights with the strobe? Strobes are BRIGHT. The beacon is not. Strobes are not required equipment, but they are common.
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Nope. No chance at all.

I don't have a beacon. I don't have nav lights. I have one wimpy little strobe sitting on the tail.

Flash, Flash, Flash.

The strobe is the required anti-collision light.
 
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