Another O2 issue?

NC Pilot

NC Pilot

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NC Pilot
A Baron filed for FL 270 with an apparently incapacitated pilot, ran out of fuel and crashed in West Virginia.

Similar to Payne Stewart crash? I wonder if he had O2 problems too?

http://famulus.msnbc.com/famulusgen/ap03-18-100020.asp?t=apnew&vts=31820061329

What a shame.

Flight track.

374128-flight_track_map.gif
 
Not similar to Payne Stewart, which involved loss or lack of pressurization and a cabin altitude much higher combined with no apparent use of supplemental O2. In this case, the pilot was operating at a cabin altitude of FL 270. Even with supplemental O2 (has to be a mask at that altitude, not a cannula, which isn't effective above FL 180 -- see Dr. Michael Sebastian's article on that), there are significant negative physiological effects beyond the usual hypoxia issues due to the low cabin pressure. Generally speaking, the military and commercial aviation are forbidden to operate at cabin altitudes above FL 250 for these reasons. If they lose cabin pressure, an immediate descent below FL 250 is required under their rules. This pilot was operating for an extended period at FL 270.
 
Several guys on the Bonanza net knew this pilot and are waiting to fully understand what happened. He frequently flew at these altitudes in his TC Baron. His last flight instructor commented on how well the plane was maintained and how the pilot regularly trained. We've lost several folks on the Bonanza net in the last couple months. This is tragic.

Dave
 
As further discussion for the issues involved in flight at cabin altitudes above FL 250, take a look at this and this. Even with supplemental O2, a couple of hours at those altitudes can cause decompression sickness, including even "collapse." 30-60 minutes of "denitrozgenation" by inhaling 100% O2 is necessary before flying above FL 250 cabin altitude. Did the accident pilot do that? Dunno.
 
Dave Siciliano said:
Several guys on the Bonanza net knew this pilot and are waiting to fully understand what happened. He frequently flew at these altitudes in his TC Baron. His last flight instructor commented on how well the plane was maintained and how the pilot regularly trained. We've lost several folks on the Bonanza net in the last couple months. This is tragic.

Dave
Click to expand...
As I understand it, this is a rather unusual model of Baron.
It is a 56TC and there are only 67 on the U.S. registry. It's an unpressurized Baron with turbocharged 380 HP engines similar to those on a Duke. Service ceiling is high--32,000 feet, and it is fast when operated in the flight levels (250 KTAS at FL 250).

It is a shame to lose another pilot in this manner. Hope we get to understand what happened.
 
Some more info on the pilot and his plane.

Mr. Cammack stated in his article for ABS (May 2005) that he would "routinely use a pulse oximeter" but I don't think that would help in the event of a catastrophic failure in the oxygen system. If all your oxygen leaked out in a hurry - say you had a diaphragm in a regulator fail - you'd have to be checking your oxygen saturation right about at the time of failure for you to have some warning sign. Time of useful consciousness at FL270 is probably around 90-120 seconds - even if you immediately executed a 3000 FPM emergency descent you are in a very dangerous situation - FL180 is a very long 3 minutes away. Mr. Cammack also mentioned in that article that on his flight at FL310 he carried a standby portable oxygen bottle and mask; I wonder if he always had that on board?

N18LL was remarkably intact when it came to rest. I was astonished to see the photos on the news over the internet - the autopilot did it's job to the end - there was no smoking hole. Amazing when you consider that it would be virtually impossible for both engines to run out of fuel simultaneously.

I, too, am deeply saddend when these things happen. My thoughts and prayers go out to Mr. Cammack's family and friends. I can only hope that all of us learn something from these tragedies and we become a bit wiser and more cautious next time we flip the master switch.

=======================================

I probably gave Bill Cammack his last flight review. He was a competent,
sweet guy who really loved it. His 541s were nearing an overhaul and we
had figured that since they were running great, maybe he shouldn't mess
with them.
>
> His airplane was pristine, not like many of the beater 56s.
>
>
>
> He flew the 56 high a lot, especially Minneapolis-Mass. We noted that it
> really didn't perform much better than the Colemill conversions down low, which was surely true-- but on much more gas.
>
> Getting to an altitude was an investment. We did all our engine out work
> on top of an overcast at 11K feet as I remember. He had an early Avidyne-one which you had to reboot WindowsNT to get from the GPS map to the radar picture.
>
 
Ron Levy said:
As further discussion for the issues involved in flight at cabin altitudes above FL 250, take a look at this and this. Even with supplemental O2, a couple of hours at those altitudes can cause decompression sickness, including even "collapse." 30-60 minutes of "denitrozgenation" by inhaling 100% O2 is necessary before flying above FL 250 cabin altitude. Did the accident pilot do that? Dunno.
Click to expand...
Ya gotta do that to fly Tweety...100% O2 from a Scott 2000 occlusive system, from prior to spool up. And there's a nitrogen reason why.
 
I've been at 25000 with me wearing a demand mask and my passenger wearing a regular mask, and that's as high as we're supposed to go without the occlusive systems that actually pressurise the space in the mask - you have to grunt to exhale and inhalation requires almost no effort.

When I got my pressurization endorsement we had to get our masks on quickly at FL350, forget how fast but it was in the 15 second range I think. The quick donning masks made that easy, and if one of us left the flight deck the other one had to have the mask on.

My sympathies go out to the family.
 
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Ron Levy said:
As further discussion for the issues involved in flight at cabin altitudes above FL 250, take a look at this and this. Even with supplemental O2, a couple of hours at those altitudes can cause decompression sickness, including even "collapse." 30-60 minutes of "denitrozgenation" by inhaling 100% O2 is necessary before flying above FL 250 cabin altitude. Did the accident pilot do that? Dunno.
Click to expand...

I tried to pull this up Ron! PPS is power point and I don't have that. Couldn't get the second one at all. Any suggestions? I'd really like to understand this as well as possible before flying up there again.

Dave
 
Dave Siciliano said:
I tried to pull this up Ron! PPS is power point and I don't have that. Couldn't get the second one at all. Any suggestions? I'd really like to understand this as well as possible before flying up there again.

Dave
Click to expand...
Dave:

Download OpenOffice; it is free, and it includes "Impress," their version of slide show software. I have never seen the PowerPoint show it would not play.

Edit: Go to www.openoffice.org

Also, if you could post links to the photos of the downed plane, I'd appreciate it.

/s/
 
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