Another Logbook Question

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mgpilot

Filing Flight Plan
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Matt
All --

I am a licensed sport pilot for airplane single engine land. Last week while I was out of town I went flying with a friend who owns a Remos. We discussed PIC beforehand and declared him as such since he is left seat and is listed on insurance and such.

While we were up, I took the controls and flew it for a while. My question is -- how do I log this? I don't think the time counts as PIC...but it doesn't make sense to put it in Dual Received or SIC either. How do I put this in?

Thanks!
Matt
 
You're rated. Log it under 61.51(e)(1)(i)
 
You can log as PIC that time which you have hands on the controls as pilot in an aircraft for which you are rated. Which by your statement you are so rated.

Do not log dual received unless the other pilot is qualified to instruct, CFI.
Do not log SIC as in your example, an SIC is not required for the flight.
 
As a point of regulation, Matt, being a Sport Pilot, is not "rated." He "holds privileges" in land airplane LSA's by virtue of a logbook endorsement, not a rating on his pilot certificate. However, that does fill the requirement of 61.51(e)(1)(i) to log PIC time as sole manipulator of a Light Sport Aircraft in the land airplane category/class (there being no non-SE LSA airplanes -- "A single, reciprocating engine, if powered" being one of the defining criteria of a LSA).
(e) Logging pilot-in-command flight time.
  • (1) A sport, recreational, private, commercial, or airline transport pilot may log pilot in command flight time for flights-
    (i) When the pilot is the sole manipulator of the controls of an aircraft for which the pilot is rated, or has sport pilot privileges for that category and class of aircraft, if the aircraft class rating is appropriate;
Click to expand...
 
Hey look, another thread where the question was already answered that Ron chimed in on!

eCFR was down when I attempted to copy paste the regulation for him.
 
Last edited:
EdFred said:
Hey look, another thread where the question was already answered that Ron chimed in on!

eCFR was down when I attempted to copy paste the regulation for him.
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If you'd answered it correctly, there would have been nothing for me to say. He's not "rated."
 
I found Ron's clarification useful.
 
mgpilot said:
All --

I am a licensed sport pilot for airplane single engine land. Last week while I was out of town I went flying with a friend who owns a Remos. We discussed PIC beforehand and declared him as such since he is left seat and is listed on insurance and such.

While we were up, I took the controls and flew it for a while. My question is -- how do I log this? I don't think the time counts as PIC...but it doesn't make sense to put it in Dual Received or SIC either. How do I put this in?

Thanks!
Matt
Click to expand...

EdFred said:
You're rated. Log it under 61.51(e)(1)(i)
Click to expand...

Hmmmm....
 
gismo said:
Sure you do. Your pilot certificate gives you license to fly.
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I see nothing in the FARs that say my certificate is a license. The only references I can recall is foreign pilot licenses, drivers licenses, student license, and motor vehicle licenses.

Yes, I know.
 
EdFred said:
I see nothing in the FARs that say my certificate is a license. The only references I can recall is foreign pilot licenses, drivers licenses, student license, and motor vehicle licenses.

Yes, I know.
Click to expand...

A license is legal permission to do something. Your certificate is simply a piece of plastic issued as evidence that you possess a license.
 
EdFred said:
I see nothing in the FARs that say my certificate is a license.
Click to expand...

Try the dictionary (note the second italicized example in the verb section... Pretty funny!):

li•cense |ˈlīsəns|
noun ( Brit. li•cence)
a permit from an authority to own or use something, do a particular thing, or carry on a trade (esp. in alcoholic beverages) : a gun license | [as adj. ] vehicle license fees.
• formal or official permission to do something : logging is permitted under license from the Forest Service.
• a writer's or artist's freedom to deviate from fact or from conventions such as grammar, meter, or perspective, for effect : artistic license.
• freedom to behave as one wishes, esp. in a way that results in excessive or unacceptable behavior : the government was criticized for giving the army too much license.
See note at LIBERTY.
• ( a license to do something) a reason or excuse to do something wrong or excessive : police say that the lenient sentence is a license to assault.

verb ( Brit. also li•cence) [ trans. ] (often be licensed)
grant a license to (someone or something) to permit the use of something or to allow an activity to take place : brokers must be licensed to sell health-related insurance | [ trans. ] he ought not to have been licensed to fly a plane | [as adj. ] ( licensing) a licensing authority.
• authorize the use, performance, or release of (something) : the drug is already licensed for human use | he was required to delete certain scenes before the film could be licensed for showing.
• dated give permission to (someone) to do something : [ trans. ] he was licensed to do no more than send a message.
 
JeffDG said:
A license is legal permission to do something. Your certificate is simply a piece of plastic issued as evidence that you possess a license.
Click to expand...

Perhaps, but my plastic says certificate.
 
Federal Certification of Pilots and Mechanics
The Aeronautics Branch of the Department of Commerce began pilot certifi cation with the fi rst license issued on April 6, 1927. The recipient was the chief of the Aeronautics Branch, William P. MacCracken, Jr. [Figure 1-8] (Orville Wright, who was no longer an active flier, had declined the honor.) MacCracken’s license was the first issued to a pilot by a civilian agency of the Federal Government. Some 3 months later, the Aeronautics Branch issued the first Federal aircraft mechanic license.​
Click to expand...

Pilots Handbook of Aeronautical Knowledge
 
Palmpilot said:
I found Ron's clarification useful.
Click to expand...

There's a lot of that contagion "clarification" going around. For further clarifications, go hang out at the "Hangar Talk" thread under the "Hangar Talk" forum. We must, indeed, all hangar talk together, or most assuredly we shall all hangar talk separately.
 
EdFred said:
I don't have a pilot license either.

http://www.pilotsofamerica.com/forum/showpost.php?p=683979&postcount=2
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Yes but the difference between "rating" and an "endorsement" for certain privileges, and not understanding that difference, probably accounts for over 90% of the confusion people historically have over logging questions.

So far, anyway, in about 15 years of Usenet and forum aviation discussions, I haven't seen too many understanding problems caused by confusing "license" with "certificate."
 
JeffDG said:
That's because that's what the plastic is...it's a certificate, certifying that you have a license.
Click to expand...

Reference? I don't see "license" referenced in 14CFR1.1
 
EdFred said:
Reference? I don't see "license" referenced in 14CFR1.1
Click to expand...
The term "license" is well-defined in law, and as the lawyer types have said before, means authorization to do something which those not holding that license are not. This license may involve a certificate or other document attesting to that license. From The Free Online Law Dictionary:
The permission granted by competent authority to exercise a certain privilege that, without such authorization, would constitute an illegal act, a tresspass, or a tort. The certificate or the document itself that confers permission to engage in otherwise proscribed conduct.
Click to expand...
So, as they said, your Airman Certificate is documentation of your license to act as a pilot, so your Airman Certificate may be accurately referred to as a "pilot license."
 
Maybe I'm granted a privilege and not a license. ;)
 
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