Another gripe

When he rode with me to Navasota in the 200, it was usually "Hey Wayne, can we fly over the ranch on the way in? I want to see how they're doing on the construction."

Since he grew up in Wilson, OK and we have mutual childhood friends, the conversations were a bit less formal than other Charter pax might have had with their pilots. ;)

flyingmoose said:
O


So what kind of call would chuck norris make? :D
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Is it me or doesn't the name/type of aircraft give you their approximate time to the field? If someone says Mooney or Cirrus or Gulfstream "10 miles out" I know they will be in the pattern within a couple minutes. If it a Cub or Champ it will be a little longer. Also, as pointed out earlier the distance call lets you avoide swapping paint now. I don't have to figure out how far "10 minutes" is on a G4.

I agree that a call without an approximate location is useless. At least a "northwest" or "south" gets you an idea of how they will enter the pattern and where to start looking.

As for approach fixes, they are useless to us VFR guys. I have no idea where the IAF or FAF is, however I do know what someone will do when they fly the missed - so I guess that's a good thing.

We are really splitting hairs here with miles vs minutes in the world of GA. Hell, maybe all airports should have towers so we can avoide this issue all together. :rolleyes:
 
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Yesterday, at DXR, an old timer (he has to be in his 80's) who is something of a legend here, was getting his first lesson in using a GPS in an airplane. As I was doing my preflight, I could hear him telling his instructor that he had never used ANY kind of GPS before, not even in a car. Apparently track up, track north and some of the other orientations and screen sizes was causing him some issues.
Awhile later, in the pattern, I heard him call in, somewhat flustered: "Danbury Tower, Cessna XXXXF, I'm aaaa, I'm aaa, I've got information Tango and I'm inbound to runway 26 and Damn it! what direction are we going, it all just flipped on me... How the hell am I supposed to know where I am? the stupid magenta line covers everything. Hold a second. Stop pushing the damn buttons"
Danbury: "That's OK, Frank we have you on radar."
Cessna XXXXF: "Screw it. OK I'm over Pete's house which makes me exactly 9.2 miles out."
Danbury: Cessna XXXXF you are # 1 for runway 26, Call when you are 4 miles right base."
Cessna XXXXF: "Cessna XXF, #1 for 26, will call right base over the dump." (and with the mike still keyed) and that's why they put windows in the damn thing. So you can look out and see where the hell you are."

At the FBO, he had us in stitches, telling us everything that had gone wrong. But he did admit the "infernal gadget" had some uses.
 
awesome. what is that old people cell phone, jitterbug or something? garmin needs to get into the cranky old dinosaur gps market. heck just change the touch screens and buttons for dials and the old codgers will figure it out.:lol:
Shepherd said:
Yesterday, at DXR, an old timer (he has to be in his 80's) who is something of a legend here, was getting his first lesson in using a GPS in an airplane. As I was doing my preflight, I could hear him telling his instructor that he had never used ANY kind of GPS before, not even in a car. Apparently track up, track north and some of the other orientations and screen sizes was causing him some issues.
Awhile later, in the pattern, I heard him call in, somewhat flustered: "Danbury Tower, Cessna XXXXF, I'm aaaa, I'm aaa, I've got information Tango and I'm inbound to runway 26 and Damn it! what direction are we going, it all just flipped on me... How the hell am I supposed to know where I am? the stupid magenta line covers everything. Hold a second. Stop pushing the damn buttons"
Danbury: "That's OK, Frank we have you on radar."
Cessna XXXXF: "Screw it. OK I'm over Pete's house which makes me exactly 9.2 miles out."
Danbury: Cessna XXXXF you are # 1 for runway 26, Call when you are 4 miles right base."
Cessna XXXXF: "Cessna XXF, #1 for 26, will call right base over the dump." (and with the mike still keyed) and that's why they put windows in the damn thing. So you can look out and see where the hell you are."

At the FBO, he had us in stitches, telling us everything that had gone wrong. But he did admit the "infernal gadget" had some uses.
Click to expand...
 
I call 10 miles out. If I hear traffic in the pattern, I'll announce again as I get closer. I always include bearing b/c I want people to know which direction I'll be coming from.
 
EdFred said:
Sometimes I wont call the runway because I don't know what runway everyone else may already be using, or which way the wind is at the field.
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True.... But..... Unless the airport is sitting in a valley where the wind will swirl, I am 99% sure from 10 miles out what runway I will be using..:yes:;)
 
N801BH said:
True.... But..... Unless the airport is sitting in a valley where the wind will swirl, I am 99% sure from 10 miles out what runway I will be using..:yes:;)
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Runway 12/30

Wind at nearest reporting station 14nm away says wind is 210@12.
 
Shepherd said:
Yesterday, at DXR, an old timer (he has to be in his 80's) who is something of a legend here, was getting his first lesson in using a GPS in an airplane. As I was doing my preflight, I could hear him telling his instructor that he had never used ANY kind of GPS before, not even in a car. Apparently track up, track north and some of the other orientations and screen sizes was causing him some issues.
Awhile later, in the pattern, I heard him call in, somewhat flustered: "Danbury Tower, Cessna XXXXF, I'm aaaa, I'm aaa, I've got information Tango and I'm inbound to runway 26 and Damn it! what direction are we going, it all just flipped on me... How the hell am I supposed to know where I am? the stupid magenta line covers everything. Hold a second. Stop pushing the damn buttons"
Danbury: "That's OK, Frank we have you on radar."
Cessna XXXXF: "Screw it. OK I'm over Pete's house which makes me exactly 9.2 miles out."
Danbury: Cessna XXXXF you are # 1 for runway 26, Call when you are 4 miles right base."
Cessna XXXXF: "Cessna XXF, #1 for 26, will call right base over the dump." (and with the mike still keyed) and that's why they put windows in the damn thing. So you can look out and see where the hell you are."
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Radar must be scheduled out for maintenance.
 
rottydaddy said:
I dont let it get to me anymore. Even with more specific info, these calls are mire often than not just plain wrong. Wrong bearing, wrong time or distance, wrong landmark, etc etc.
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And when a lot of people mention a landmark, it means that they see it over the nose, not that they're over it.
 
denverpilot said:
GPS button pusher. They read it off the screen.

Or...

I also hear it regularly from commuter airline pilots at uncontrolled fields, because they know most bugsmashers hear "X miles out" and think in terms of lower speeds to convert to times, and they're in a screaming 200+ knot descent out of FL230 after Center have them "descend at pilot's discretion" 100 miles ago. ;)
Click to expand...

Reminds me of the time when I was a new pilot and I was about to turn base when I heard a turboprop airliner announce a seven mile final. I wasn't sure how fast he was, but it sounded far enough, so I went ahead and turned base and landed. I guess it must have been OK, because I didn't hear any complaints, and I saw the airliner rolling down the runway when I was about halfway to the transient ramp. That was a situation where the number of minutes out would have been helpful.

On the other hand, if I'm approaching the airport from the same direction, the number of minutes out of a type I'm not familiar with might not be that useful. :dunno:
 
wabower said:
Why not just sign up for membership on getalife.com rather than bitching about something you can't control while the guy you're ****ed at has no idea of your grievances and no intention of changing the way he does it?
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Yeah, because discussing how things should be done while flying is a completely inappropriate use of an aviation forum. [/sarcasm]
 
EdFred said:
Runway 12/30

Wind at nearest reporting station 14nm away says wind is 210@12.
Click to expand...

I will use various forms of information for winds.... My default is my eyes..If I see crops blowing in the wind, or trees swaying, or ripples on the water, or smoke or dust or any other indication of wind direction as I get closer to the airport then I am using that feedback over a automated weather reporting station 14 NM away....... YMMV..;)
 
N801BH said:
I will use various forms of information for winds.... My default is my eyes..If I see crops blowing in the wind, or trees swaying, or ripples on the water, or smoke or dust or any other indication of wind direction as I get closer to the airport then I am using that feedback over a automated weather reporting station 14 NM away....... YMMV..;)
Click to expand...

But how do you know which runway 10 miles out? ;)
 
EdFred said:
But how do you know which runway 10 miles out? ;)
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ummm.... ATITPPA :dunno: :rofl:

seriously -

  • you don't know what the winds aloft are to make best guess ?
  • you don't listen to unicomm to see what others are doing ?
  • grass strip traffic bugsmasher 123 10 miles to the south inbound grass strip
  • lastly, so because you are exception to the rule, the rule should no longer apply ?

just a few things that come to mind, its not rocket surgery... :)
 
jaybee said:
ummm.... ATITPPA :dunno: :rofl:

seriously -

  • you don't know what the winds aloft are to make best guess ?
  • you don't listen to unicomm to see what others are doing ?
  • grass strip traffic bugsmasher 123 10 miles to the south inbound grass strip
  • lastly, so because you are exception to the rule, the rule should no longer apply ?
just a few things that come to mind, its not rocket surgery... :)
Click to expand...

Winds aloft can vary by 40-50 degrees from surface winds.
Not always someone in the pattern
you didn't mention which runway you were landing at ;)
Yes. :D
 
jtheune said:
I've heard and made 10 miles out calls but I've never heard anyone say 10 minutes out before
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I've used minutes out calls before. 10 mile call in a jet is pointless as far as "normal" planning goes. If I'm in a small plane and I hear another cessna call ten miles I know I can prob fly a full pattern before he gets there. 10 miles in a jet and he is almost in the pattern.
 
EdFred said:
Winds aloft can vary by 40-50 degrees from surface winds.
Not always someone in the pattern
you didn't mention which runway you were landing at ;)
Yes. :D
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One of two things happens:

1. The pattern is empty. You announce 10 miles out, guess at the runway from winds aloft, then check the windsock and adjust if needed. Straight out downwind, teardropping into the opposite 45 ought to do it. Of course, announce it.

2. The pattern is not empty. You listen to other announcements, announce yourself 10 miles out which runway. Check the windsock on the way in to see if the guy ahead is FOS.

If you have AWOS at the field, which is becoming much more common but isn't nearly universal, that makes it all easy.

40-50 degrees is often enough to pick a runway. It's only in the direct-crosswind regime that it's a factor.
 
MAKG1 said:
40-50 degrees is often enough to pick a runway. It's only in the direct-crosswind regime that it's a factor.
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What I was saying is the winds aloft may not be indicative of the wind at the non AWOS/ASOS surface. In my 12/30 example, the winds aloft may be showing 240 on my whiz-bang GPS, but could be 190 on the ground. Or in the event of shear/inversion, almost 180 opposite.

I see 240 at altitude, I'm thinking land 30, but in reality I may want 12. Not that it's 40-50 off the runway.

At any rate, 10 minutes tells everyone else how long it will be before they have to worry about me.
 
EdFred said:
What about saying 10 minutes out (PS, I will say 10 minutes n/e/s/w) indicates that you have any need to worry about swapping paint for about, oh 10 minutes?
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If I happen to be 15 miles out at the time, I have a legitimate need to know WHERE this guy is, don't you think? :dunno::yikes:
 
N5922S said:
If I happen to be 15 miles out at the time, I have a legitimate need to know WHERE this guy is, don't you think? :dunno::yikes:
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Do you listen to every possible frequency you might be near? 15 miles from my home drome I'm over at least 6 or 7 other airports. OF course if I'm most likely not going to say 10 minutes out, because that puts me about 25 miles away. What about the guy who has no radio, do you have a legitimate need to know where he is too?

IOW, you need to know where every plane is within 700 square miles?
 
Shepherd said:
Yesterday, at DXR, an old timer (he has to be in his 80's) who is something of a legend here, was getting his first lesson in using a GPS in an airplane. As I was doing my preflight, I could hear him telling his instructor that he had never used ANY kind of GPS before, not even in a car. Apparently track up, track north and some of the other orientations and screen sizes was causing him some issues.
Awhile later, in the pattern, I heard him call in, somewhat flustered: "Danbury Tower, Cessna XXXXF, I'm aaaa, I'm aaa, I've got information Tango and I'm inbound to runway 26 and Damn it! what direction are we going, it all just flipped on me... How the hell am I supposed to know where I am? the stupid magenta line covers everything. Hold a second. Stop pushing the damn buttons"
Danbury: "That's OK, Frank we have you on radar."
Cessna XXXXF: "Screw it. OK I'm over Pete's house which makes me exactly 9.2 miles out."
Danbury: Cessna XXXXF you are # 1 for runway 26, Call when you are 4 miles right base."
Cessna XXXXF: "Cessna XXF, #1 for 26, will call right base over the dump." (and with the mike still keyed) and that's why they put windows in the damn thing. So you can look out and see where the hell you are."

At the FBO, he had us in stitches, telling us everything that had gone wrong. But he did admit the "infernal gadget" had some uses.
Click to expand...

That is hilarious. :) Love it.
 
EdFred said:
Do you listen to every possible frequency you might be near? 15 miles from my home drome I'm over at least 6 or 7 other airports.
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You poor people are way too packed in like sardines in a can. :)
 
denverpilot said:
You poor people are way too packed in like sardines in a can. :)
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Agreed..................

Out here in the good ol West we have to fly dozens of miles just to get to the next airport... And even then, when we land, we would have to wait days till next plane came along so we could have "traffic in the pattern"..:lol::yes: ;)
 
N801BH said:
Agreed..................

Out here in the good ol West we have to fly dozens of miles just to get to the next airport... And even then, when we land, we would have to wait days till next plane came along so we could have "traffic in the pattern"..:lol::yes: ;)
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I consider you "North". Heh heh.
 
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