Another Colorado Fatal to cap awful 2012

The Bravo around FTG is pretty spooky. Maybe tried to maneuver too aggressively to avoid crossing a road... Cannot imagine why else would anyone crash with fatal results at FTG (unless it's, say, Lancair).
 
denverpilot said:
Damn it. Another fatal here in Colorado this year. I was hoping we could get out of 2012 without another.

http://kwgn.com/2012/11/21/pilot-killed-in-plane-crash-in-adams-county/
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We lost one here in Wyoming too.. ATC tracked it up to the point where the radar lost contact because of mountian shadowing... Wife called the sheriff when he was 30 minutes late, CAP IC called SLC center and they provided VERY detailed taped within the hour on Saturday. Wife and the sheriff called his cell phone numerous times.. It just keeps ringing. :( Had not snowed all year, got 3 feet the afternoon after the plane went down. White plane.:(... Weather was bad for air search so ground teams have spent days looking for it. No Joy. CAP launched the 182 out of JAC Tues morning,, still no joy.:sad::sad::sad:

The biggest obstacle is the cell company will not disclose any ping data to help home into the crash site. They need to be put in jail.:mad::mad::mad:


http://www.pinedaleonline.com/news/2012/11/Searchcontinuesformi.htm
 
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jmp470 said:
what type of plane was that? It is pretty crispy there.
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The Federal Aviation Administration said the plane was a replica of an RAF SE5a, a World War I-era British warplane.
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http://www.thedenverchannel.com/new...ra-plane-dies-in-crash-at-front-range-airport

Wonder if it's this one. There couldn't be that many in the Denver area.

2007-05-19%2520at%252010-59-24.jpg
 
N801BH said:
I bet it is...... Look at the pic of the crash site... You can see the axle and wheel to the right of the main wreckage..
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To me the wheel in the picture looks to be a light color, not red.
 
Everskyward said:
To me the wheel in the picture looks to be a light color, not red.
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The size of the wheel and the unique axle leads me to believe the pic you posted in the accident plane though... Heat could have discolored the wheel..:dunno:
 
N801BH said:
The size of the wheel and the unique axle leads me to believe the pic you posted in the accident plane though... Heat could have discolored the wheel..:dunno:
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I guess we'll know soon enough, but I would assume all airplanes of this type would have a similar style axle and wheel.
 
N801BH said:
agreed.......

No matter what.. it is a sad deal...:sad::sad::sad:
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Sad indeed. Certainly tempting to think a control, structural, or health failure since there is nothing but flat ground all around out there.
 
Quote from witness, I've removed names until they are made public. The witness is an A&P & pilot, has built and renovated WWII-era aircraft.

"I unfortunately witnessed XXX crash his 2/3 scale SE5 today. We were in the terminal and watched him take off and didn’t climb well. The plane was mushing along about 200 foot above the 26 runway. He made a gentle turn to a right down wind and still was not gaining altitude. It was obvious that it was not flying well. About 2/3 of the way down wind, still about 300 ft, we saw a wing wobble and than a stall. It dropped right wing low. The right wing hit the ground first and than swung around into the engine. There was a large cloud of dust and than it caught fire. We weren’t sure if it was XXX or YYY that was flying it. YYY came running into the office so we knew it had to be XXX. YYY talked to Denis Heap who told him that he didn’t get out of the plane. The plane had flown a few times before with no apparent problems. Both XXX and YYY had flown it.
The response of the airport/fire brigade was terribly agonizing. It took at least 20 minutes for the fire truck to get out there. I was becoming frantic because nothing was happening, I ran outside and who is going after him, I finally saw the guy and had to yell at him to run instead of the leisurely walk that I saw. The fire truck apparently had to go to the far end of the airport to get around a fence and then come back."
 
Channel 2 now has the info out if you refresh the original link.

Experienced pilot, in his 70s. Built a Gypsy Moth replica. Phone call to the tower that was garbled, perhaps indicating a radio problem. Airplane had been flying for about a month.
 
Bummer, it sounds like he was victim of flying an airline pattern. :( If he stalled and crashed a mile out, with a power failure he would have likely been looking for more glide than the plane could give. Lots of high time pilots fall victim to the simple traps.
 
DavidWhite said:
According to that article apparently an electrical failure caused the crash.
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Quote from the article:

"Heap said the garbled transmission could indicate that electrical failure caused the crash. The National Transportation Safety Board and the Federal Aviation Administration will investigate the cause of the crash."

No, there was no "apparent electrical failure", but there was an opinion that an electrical failure was possible. The quoted person is not a pilot, but the airport manager.

Consider the airplane - what other electrical equipment might be installed than the transponder and radios, none of which were required or even existed in the original models back in WWI.

Everyone - anytime something like this happens, can we please NOT jump to conclusions within hours of the event? If we're so damn smart and know the reasons, why aren't we working for the NTSB and not taking a year or so to make a determination?
 
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zaitcev said:
The Bravo around FTG is pretty spooky. Maybe tried to maneuver too aggressively to avoid crossing a road... Cannot imagine why else would anyone crash with fatal results at FTG (unless it's, say, Lancair).
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It's spooky only to people not familiar with the area. As for crossing a road (which is a boundary line for Class B surface), it's usually not an issue. At worst, a reminder from the tower "turn [right/left] immediately to avoid Class B"
 
Plus, this crash was on the South side, right? Nowhere near the Bravo.

I have not seen any confirmation the phone call received by the Tower was actually from the pilot's phone (easy to check records with the carrier), but after reading the description that the aircraft wasn't climbing well, I can't imagine a worse time than in a low, slow downwind, with a poorly performing aircraft, to mess with a cell phone.
 
murphey; [QUOTE said:
Everyone - anytime something like this happens, can we please NOT jump to conclusions within hours of the event?
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Nope, that's what we do here. It's our yob, mon.

If we're so damn smart and know the reasons, why aren't we working for the NTSB and not taking a year or so to make a determination?
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Because we're right about as often as they are?
 
murphey said:
Consider the airplane - what other electrical equipment might be installed than the transponder and radios, none of which were required or even existed in the original models back in WWI.
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For most of the WWI replicas, the only thing electrical is an automotive style ignition system (depending on the engine) and a hand held radio. XPDR not required unless flying inside the Bravo. I suspect that the 'possible electrical failure' was from the guy trying to explain the garbled transmission to the news folks. I suspect the garbled nature came from the guy trying to tell the tower he needed to land fast while dealing with an emergency. Due to the burned nature of the wreckage.....we may never know what that emergency was.
 
KFTG is well inside the 20 mile Mode-C ring, and being a towered airport, I doubt these folks would have built it, planning to fly it there, without a transponder and electrical system.

Just a guess. But I doubt it was transponder-less.
 
murphey said:
Quote from the article:
If we're so damn smart and know the reasons, why aren't we working for the NTSB and not taking a year or so to make a determination?
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Actually, we ARE working for the NTSB. As one who has been involved in an NTSB investigation as an engineer at an airline that shall remain unnamed, let me shed a little light on how they operate.

The NTSB itself employs very few people. When they investigate an accident they are granted authority by Congress to call in whatever resources may exist in the nation to aid in the investigation. It is called a "party system", whereby the NTSB can name any parties to the investigation that they desire. So in this way they call in pilots, manufacturers, operators, laboratories, scientists and just about any other resource that exists in the nation. It's kind of like the spirit of the admonition in the FARs for the PIC to use "all available information" when planning a flight.

While discussions like these on PoA may not have the same weight as sworn testimony in an NTSB deposition, I believe they are useful to the process. The NTSB investigators never know where that critical piece of the puzzle is going to come from and it is better to err on the safe side by encouraging more public discussion than less. Besides, it's democratic, and what better way to ferret out the truth of any matter than to do it in a public dialogue?
 
What engine was in it? Was it a Gypsy or a modern engine? 2/3rd scale is a pretty small airplane.
 
denverpilot said:
KFTG is well inside the 20 mile Mode-C ring, and being a towered airport, I doubt these folks would have built it, planning to fly it there, without a transponder and electrical system.

Just a guess. But I doubt it was transponder-less.
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I would be far more surprised if it did have a xpdr. The scaled down replicas are more like ultralights than anything. I looked at a few scaled-down WWI planes this summer before I settled on the Pietenpol. Some were also located IVO class C. None of them had electrical systems or transponders...too much of a weight penalty and they mostly don't get up above 1500 AGL.

I myself have flown a Champ with no electrical system from an airport under the class B shelf.

It is a lot more common than you might think.
 
Found it in the FAA Prelim reports. N-number of the aircraft in question was 17SE.

Engine listed as Continental O-200A
 
N801BH;1032461 Cert was 5-12... been flying for just a few months.:sad:[/QUOTE said:
That was noted in the updated version of the news article link at thread top. That news station updates their stories under the same link they were originally posted under when "breaking".
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Yeah.... I saw that too,,, figured it was a optical illusion from the camera. If not, that prop was severely weak..:hairraise::eek:
 
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Was that one of the SE-5 replicas out of Platte Valley? The photo looks like it.
 
Anthony said:
Was that one of the SE-5 replicas out of Platte Valley? The photo looks like it.
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No, my picture at the beginning of the thread was the one out of Platte Valley. This one was just finished recently as I understand it.
 
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