Another Boring Session?

spiderweb

spiderweb

Final Approach
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Feb 22, 2005
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Ben
FFC's Seminole is cheaper than their Trinnie. So I was thinking that next week maybe I could go get some twin time. I only have about three hours, and none of it is true training time in the sense of hardcore SE stuff. I wonder if I would get hooked. But a more serious question--could fly and log approaches? I am thinking no, since I don't have a multi rating. If not, I think I will just rent a C172 or the Trinnie.
 
Ben since you do not have a multi I take it a CFI-ME is with you. Then sure you can log approaches, they are training. I cannot see why you couldn't log them. I think the rub is that you cannot use those approaches for currency for your single engine instrument rating though. I am going to go look and see if I can find some rules on this as the aforementioned statement was off of the top of my head.
 
It can be logged just fine, so long as you have a MEI with you...otherwise it's not legal at all. As far as counting towards instrument currency...SE/ME doesn't matter, i don't think. There's nothing in 66HIT that requires a certain number of engines. You won't, however, be PIC, but it counts for everything else. ME flying is fun, I love it. Some of the most fun I've had in an airplane was my ME training doing practice engine failures...feathered props in flight make for some great photos, too.
 
Found it in part 61.

61.57(c)(1) to be exact

Has to be in the same CATEGORY so you can log it with a MEI and it will count. I was wrong above about it not counting.
 
So the approaches would be good for IFR currency? Thanks! Now I'm thinking Seminole. The CFI i work with there said about 15-20 hours to the rating.
 
If you can shoot a single engine ILS to mins without straying from PTS standards, I'd say that alone should count for currency, but yes, even with both engines working it'll count.

It was four days for me from first ride in a twin to PPME check ride...about 12 hours total in the air. After the first time you lose an engine and spend a minute or two staring at your MEI like "ok, now what?" (it'll happen, no matter how many times you chair fly the procedure) it gets pretty fun, so the add-on should go pretty quick. Have fun!!
 
15-20 hours seems a bit high to me for an add-on, but I suppose it will vary with how much time you have to dedicate towards it and how quick the training goes. I had 5 hours going into my checkride, I was under-prepared, but passed.

Have fun in the Seminole! Multi-engine flying is definitely funner for me and makes you feel like a more advanced pilot.
 
bkreager said:
15-20 hours seems a bit high to me for an add-on, but I suppose it will vary with how much time you have to dedicate towards it and how quick the training goes. I had 5 hours going into my checkride, I was under-prepared, but passed.

Have fun in the Seminole! Multi-engine flying is definitely funner for me and makes you feel like a more advanced pilot.
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I would love to do this. I am seriously considering it. I have to get a POH, of course, and fill out the paperwork. As to the hours, here's what it says:

"The Multi-Engine Rating Course follows the curriculum outlined in FAR Part 141, Subpart C, Appendix I, and consists of a minimum of 15 hours of flight training. The Piper Seminole aircraft is used in this training program. "
 
and also: "To obtain an airplane multi-engine rating limited to VFR only, the applicant must successfully complete all ground and flight lessons in Stages I and II of the Jeppesen-Sanderson Multi-Engine Rating Course syllabus. To obtain an airplane multi-engine rating with instrument privileges, the applicant must successfully complete all ground and flight lessons in Stages I, II, and III."
 
right, the standard Jeppesen 141 multi course is 15 hrs for the multi-instrument. which is about the right amount of time if the student is fairly competent on instruments, which of course you are Ben.
 
Well I guess theres no fighting the 141 rules. If you do decide to do the rating be sure to let us know how it goes!
 
Just do it, Ben, Then you can log any time accrued in <12,500 lb not turboJET twins anytime.....
 
I called earlier. There are two sucky things to consider: 1) I would have to have 50 hours total before they would let me solo, unless I had my commercial, and 2) they only have one Seminole, so they only allow it to be used for training.
 
so what on earth do they use it for? i never thought a seminole was good for anything except training
 
There used to be two, and one was available for solo rental. It was nice to have the extra engine when I got the Shark Route up to NY from DC.

I did the Instrument-Commercial-Multi route with the VA paying the bills, and the 15 hours programmed was just right.
 
tonycondon said:
so what on earth do they use it for? i never thought a seminole was good for anything except training
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It's also good for carrying a little bit of gas (and little else) a really short distance, rather slowly.
 
Teller1900 said:
It's also good for carrying a little bit of gas (and little else) a really short distance, rather slowly.
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I love reading the newpiper.com website stats for the seminole. If it really were that fast, you'd see a lot of personal semionles out there!
 
Well, the whole thing is moot for now as the seminole will be down during my time. I guess I will get into the Trinnie--it's much faster anyway. Meanwhile, though, I have ordered some more multi books!
 
Umm... I've seen 160 KTAS in a Seminole, using the multiple GPS tracks method. 5000 feet, WOT, leaned for best power.
 
TMetzinger said:
Umm... I've seen 160 KTAS in a Seminole, using the multiple GPS tracks method. 5000 feet, WOT, leaned for best power.
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160 under those conditions, I'd buy... 168 under a more realistic cruise power setting (ie not full rental power), or even any power setting, I doubt.
 
Got the Jepp today. Ugg it looks a bit boring. I've read Paul Craig. Any other recommendations? No thunderstorms on Thursday and I'm in the Trinnie.
 
spiderweb said:
Got the Jepp today. Ugg it looks a bit boring. I've read Paul Craig. Any other recommendations? No thunderstorms on Thursday and I'm in the Trinnie.
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I like the Jepp, that's what I used mostly. Just make sure you have PAST and SMACFUM (or SMACMUF, as some prefer) down pat and you'll be fine for the oral.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
160 under those conditions, I'd buy... 168 under a more realistic cruise power setting (ie not full rental power), or even any power setting, I doubt.
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I think my settings were pretty close to 75% on the hot day in question, so I don't understand what "full rental power" is. Whether I own or rent an airplane, I want to go fast in it, and as long as I stay within the envelope (and out of the red box), I don't see any problem, even at 80% or higher power.
 
Teller1900 said:
I like the Jepp, that's what I used mostly. Just make sure you have PAST and SMACFUM (or SMACMUF, as some prefer) down pat and you'll be fine for the oral.
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Smacmuf sound dirty.
 
yea no kidding, what WERE they teaching you at ATP?
 
PAST = P-factor, asymectric thrust, spiraling slip-stream, and torque

SMACFUM = FAR 23.149...conditions under which Vmc is calculated (std. day, max power op engine, aft cg, low weight, gear/flaps in t/o position) all that good stuff
 
Teller1900 said:
PAST = P-factor, asymectric thrust, spiraling slip-stream, and torque
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Quite useful, even at the PP-ASEL level.

SMACFUM = FAR 23.149...conditions under which Vmc is calculated (std. day, max power op engine, aft cg, low weight, gear/flaps in t/o position) all that good stuff
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Ahh...yes. But I'm not sure it's a readily rememberable mnemonic, like "True Virgins Make Dull Companions - Add Whiskey."
 
Ron Levy said:
Quite useful, even at the PP-ASEL level.

Ahh...yes. But I'm not sure it's a readily rememberable mnemonic, like "True Virgins Make Dull Companions - Add Whiskey."
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PAST is the factors contributing to critical engine...

It got me through my PP-AMEL and then was a good tool to use to "teach" in the MEI oral.

I've never heard that pneumonic, before...but it's funny. Who's gonna forget a word like Smacmuf, though :goofy:
 
Teller1900 said:
PAST is the factors contributing to critical engine...
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or turning tendencies in general.

I didnt learn about that true virgins junk until just a few months ago when a guy at work who has taken many levels of sailing instruction and certification told me about it. how silly.
 
Hey Ben, saw you yesterday at the flight center but you were deep into your preflight so didn't want to distract you.

I also saw them drag out the battery cart for you--what a pain in the you-know-what. That airplane has had more starter problems...

Hope it turned out to be a good session anyway!
 
555Juliet said:
Hey Ben, saw you yesterday at the flight center but you were deep into your preflight so didn't want to distract you.

I also saw them drag out the battery cart for you--what a pain in the you-know-what. That airplane has had more starter problems...

Hope it turned out to be a good session anyway!
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Oh! That's cool! Sorry I didn't say hi! Yep--the battery was kinda a PITA because it only left us 45 mins to fly.
 
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