Animation of the Hudson collision

Interesting.

The Piper pilot was given a handoff 50 seconds before the collision, but never checked in on the new frequency. Meanwhile, they were trying to reach him to give him the traffic callout (though I'm not entirely sure it was a callout for the traffic he collided with).

From the animation, the sequence seems almost tailor-made for a pilot in a low-wing to have the wing obstruct his view. The helicopter was low and to his left, and the Piper was in a slight bank to the right to join the Hudson.

On the other hand, I'm not sure what there is to excuse the helicopter pilot for not seeing the plane. He was climbing up towards the plane, and should have had a view out the right window (which is where helicopter pilots sit, no?) and high.
-harry
 
mantakos said:
Interesting.

The Piper pilot was given a handoff 50 seconds before the collision, but never checked in on the new frequency. -harry
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Thats because the Lance Pilot heard the wrong freq TEB said 127.85 and the Lance's read back was 127.87. TEB never corrected him on the readback. Now was that because they were not paying attention who knows? The Lance could have immediatly tuned to .87 but fromt the tapes its sure that TEB never corrected him.
 
Sounds to me like typical high density traffic for that area. Guy made a radio frequency error that may have caused the tragedy, but may not have.

Either way, very sad. I would hate to be the people in either the helicopter or plane, that'd be an awful way to go.
 
Chilling for sure..:yes:..

Funny they cut out the transcript of the personal phone call. We all pay that guys salary, this call happened "on the clock"... We should be able to hear the WHOLE story, not just get spoon fed what they want us to hear..:incazzato:

IMHO.

Ben.
 
AdamZ said:
Thats because the Lance Pilot heard the wrong freq TEB said 127.85 and the Lance's read back was 127.87. TEB never corrected him on the readback. Now was that because they were not paying attention who knows? The Lance could have immediatly tuned to .87 but fromt the tapes its sure that TEB never corrected him.
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I couldn't fully hear the Lance's readback. Sounds like he trailed off: "One two seven point..." was all i could hear, when the text indicates a full readback with callsign. Although there were other inaudible comms that were indicated in the text, so there must be more that we aren't hearing.
 
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What I hear in the audio from that animation is the controller saying "127.85" and the piper pilot responds "127.8". Now whether that's all he said, or that's just where the animation's audio cuts off the communication, I don't know. But assuming that they pieced all the audio together accurately, it sounds like the controller is getting communication from the other controller at the same time, which may have affected his ability to notice an incorrect readback.

The idea that the pilot read-back "127.87", did that come from this animation's audio, or from some other recording of the communication? I don't hear that trailing '7' in this audio.

There's no mention of an incorrect frequency readback in the NTSB preliminary, nor in this "press advisory":
http://www.ntsb.gov/pressrel/2009/090814.html
...As the Newark controller was providing the suggested heading to the Teterboro controller, the pilot of the airplane was acknowledging the frequency change to the Teterboro controller...
​
-harry
 
Harry the local Philly paper reported that the readback was .87 not .85 I could not hear it either but perhaps they have some fancy dancy audio machine that can clean it up.
 
Seems like despite the controversial phone call, the KTEB and KEWR controllers did what they were supposed to do for this guy, and then some.

KTEB could've just said "monitor Hudson CTAF, see ya" instead of handing him to KEWR for more advisories. It's important to remember that once you cross the riverbank there, if you are below 1100, you are in "Indian country"- completely uncontrolled airspace, with its own CTAF. To expect FF in there would be like expecting KEWR controllers to manage the pattern at Linden. He was no longer any controller's responsibilty, really, miles before that, as he exited the Class D, still below the Class B shelf. He was getting assitance beyond their required duties.

But he got the KEWR freq wrong, and apparently did not monitor the Hudson CTAF. Maybe he was still looking it up, who knows.

If you look at the video of the crash, especially individual frames, it seems there was a brief period where he could easily have seen the chopper low on his left (and vice-versa for the chopper pilot), but both pilots were probably already diverting their attention to the south (Piper's right, chopper's left/ forward), since that's where they both intended to go (the shopper was just getting established on that heading). Very easy to see how they could have missed each other.
And I don't care how disciplined you are- unless you fly that corridor on a regular basis, there's always a "gee whiz" moment as you enter, from wherever... it's hard not to halt your scan for a moment to take it all in (the sight of the city laid out beyond the river).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwT6yP1UXE4

IMHO, this was pilot error, on the part of one or both pilots... but even that can be forgiven. We all know how easy it is to not be looking where you "should" even if you are scanning diligently. Only takes a moment to go from a close call to a midair. So many midairs happen this way: one or both changing altitude and/or heading,and one or both moving into the other's blind spot just before impact.

I don't know if the Hudson CTAF would have helped, but it might have- that chopper pilot probably called his position and alt. as he turned. If the Piper pilot had been listening (although perhaps he was) that might have forced him to check low and ahead on both sides as he came over Hoboken
towards the river (which was the best time to see that helicopter).
 
N801BH said:
Funny they cut out the transcript of the personal phone call. We all pay that guys salary, this call happened "on the clock"... We should be able to hear the WHOLE story, not just get spoon fed what they want us to hear..:incazzato:

IMHO.
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They can't cut what they don't have. Radio and dedicated ATC landlines are recorded, commercial phone lines are not. ISTR it being reported that the personal call was on a cell phone.
 
No doubt the NTSB will be examining whether being on the cell phone led to missing the incorrect frequency readback. Cut it any way you want, that call was inappropriate if not a violation of the controller's rules, and possibly a contributing factor to the accident.
 
Looked like the helo climbed right into him.

Really chilling to see that airplane, one that I saw all the time at Wings, in its final moments. Unsettling.
 
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