Android-based EFB discussion

TMetzinger

TMetzinger

Final Approach
Joined
Mar 6, 2006
Messages
9,660
Location
Northern Virginia
Display Name
Display name:
Tim
I'm starting this thread to talk about Electronic Flight Bags on the Android Platform. I do not want this to turn into an iOS/Android discussion - there's already a thread for that.

I've been using Windows-based EFBs for 12+ years, including Jepp and NACO products on Win2K, XP, and Win7.

The Nexus 7's form factor and price appear to hit the sweet spot for me, giving me a platform that I can easily use in the various airplanes I fly. So here's what I'm putting together this week.
  • Nexus 7 16 GB - should have 14 GB free storage
  • 4GLTE connectivity via my VZN phone/hotspot - no additional charge on my "share everything" plan.
  • Garmin Pilot. I've got this on my phone right now and it takes up 11 GB for two (current and next) chart cycles of sectionals, lo enroute, and approach plates, plus GeoRef Safetaxi charts. If I run low on space, I can delete some of the chart coverage.
  • About 800 MB of reference material - Handbooks, Manuals, Advisory Circulars, etc
  • Documents-To-Go for editing Office files like expense reports or invoices
  • ConnectBot for SSH/Telnet - handy when talking to DUAT
  • Tapatalk (duh - gotta check POA)
  • FlightTools E6B
  • Logbook Pro
  • Weather Channel
  • ES File Explorer
  • Kid stuff (Angry Birds, etc, for my daughter on road trips)
This should fit well on the Nexus 7. I wish it had more storage, but I also can plan on buying the next generation and giving this tablet to my daughter who will love it. With 802.11N between the tablet and my phone, I can also use the phone as a file server (it has 32 GB) if I need to move things off the tablet.

Garmin Pilot on my phone seems to work pretty well. It's not as good as Foreflight or WingX yet, but it's certainly adequate and I expect it to continue to improve. I still have to try out the flight plan sync between Pilot and FlyGarmin. So far all I want that it doesn't have is a scratchpad, and support for Q routes in the flight planning.

I'm not getting the geo-ref'ed approach plates. I've used them in approved (G1000) and other (JeppView) situations, and I know firsthand what an eye-magnet they are, and I want to be navigating via my primary (HSI) instruments. All I need from an approach plate is the ability to brief the approach and to refer to it quickly if need be. I think the FAA was smart in the rules they put in about EFBs and display of own-ship position.

I will probably buy a bluetooth keyboard for use on the ground, and with that I may be able to leave the laptop at home (or in the luggage) completely.

I'm interested in hearing what others are doing or planning with these devices.
 
I've been using my Asus Transformer as my all-around, everyday tablet and aviation slave for cross-country flights.
Now, I'm considering smaller, dedicated aviation unit ... the Nexus 7 sounds like it might fit the bill!

I'm a Naviator user and don't see myself giving that up (at least until my subscription comes due).

Weather, I still get from WeatherMeister.
 
Tim, I have both an iPad and a Galaxy Android (phone with the large screen). I've got Foreflight on one and Naviator on the other. SOmething about "redundancy through different devices and software builds".

In my opinion, Foreflight has the better user interface but can be very frustrating at times to use, Naviator is OK but lacks some features that FF has. My biggest frustration with Naviator is that you have to load the enroute charts individually, which essentially means that you need an index. I don't think either is perfect, but I'd give the nod to FF. I WISH that FF were available on the Android platform as the 7 inch Android tablets are about perfect for the cockpit (the iPad is just a tad bit big).

Garmin is somewhat behind the others, based on what I've seen, and frankly, I expect that Garmin will (at some point) gouge users on pricing based on what they've done in other products.

Jepp's really a non-player, though I do use Flightstar/Flightmap on my desktop/laptop for planning (along with NACO approach charts). Wish there were some way to do the planning on the laptop then send it to the device. I'd expect them to gouge even more than Garmin....

I like the AirWX application as a quick weather check. It could be more except that you need a live internet connection to load plates.
 
TMetzinger said:
I'm starting this thread to talk about Electronic Flight Bags on the Android Platform. I do not want this to turn into an iOS/Android discussion - there's already a thread for that.
Click to expand...

A noble but probably fruitless endeavor. :D

Cheers
 
I would be all over an android tablet, if I could run foreflight on it...
 
wsuffa said:
I like the AirWX application as a quick weather check. It could be more except that you need a live internet connection to load plates.
Click to expand...
I have AirWX too.

I really like the foreflight weather app for Android... it does what airWX does in terms of showing weather for a bunch of places.
 
One thing you're forgetting is the GDL-39, Bluetoothed to your Nexus 7.

To have free weather in-cockpit is simply amazing. It basically pays for itself. I've flown with it AND XM weather (on my 496) since OSH, and it's been great. No reason to keep XM at all.
 
WingX will be available *sometime*... they are working on it. There is a trial now for Anywhere Map, and Bendix-King is advertising the "MyWingMan" app will be available soon (w/ 60 day trial).
 
Jay Honeck said:
One thing you're forgetting is the GDL-39, Bluetoothed to your Nexus 7.

To have free weather in-cockpit is simply amazing. It basically pays for itself. I've flown with it AND XM weather (on my 496) since OSH, and it's been great. No reason to keep XM at all.
Click to expand...
The GDL-39 is next on my list. Most of the airplanes I fly are G1000 nowadays so I've got XM with the airplane.

But I'm thinking that I might be able to rent out my GDL-39 and/or nexus when I'm not using it.... Heck, might end up justifying purchasing another set and going into the EFB rental business.
 
TMetzinger said:
This should fit well on the Nexus 7. I wish it had more storage, but I also can plan on buying the next generation and giving this tablet to my daughter who will love it. With 802.11N between the tablet and my phone, I can also use the phone as a file server (it has 32 GB) if I need to move things off the tablet.
Click to expand...

I've got one of these on the way. If it works, it's a cheap way to add storage to the Nexus 7.
 
I am running:

Aviation tools free (Mostly use it to check weather at different airports)
E6B+ (use it as an E6B, duh!)
Naviator (my moving map GPS. havent yet filed a flight plan with it though)
 
I just bought a Nexus 7 and Garmin Pilot. Too soon to tell, but so far I'm in love.
 
btw... FlyQ app, free from AOPA is getting there... update fixed some problems. No moving map, but good airport info and weax info (with Internet connection).
 
I use avilution and for a daytime VFR pilot it is all I need. I have no other aviation apps. It seems to me that getting to what I need such as airport info requires fewer screen taps than other software. One tap gives you basic info, two taps gives more, three taps gives the airport diagram. I used one of the first releases of Garmin pilot and it took six taps to get what I needed.

The Nexus 7 that I use has an accelerometer, GPS, magnetometer, and gyroscope. So now I'm looking for an app that would show the six pack (well it couldn't show air speed), but the other five should be doable. Haven't found one yet -- although individual ones are readily available, but I'd like to see all of them as steam gauges on a single screen.
 
Here are some of the apps I currently use on my Galaxy Nexus phone and ASUS Transformer. I'm contemplating getting a Nexus 7, however, as I think a 7" screen is the best compromise for use while actually flying:

Anywhere Map Freedom: I prefer the interface of Anywhere Map to any of the other Android moving-map apps. It has geo-referenced plates, obstacle avoidance, a virtual ILS system and a few other things that make it the top app for me. It can be a little glitchy on my Asus tablet at times, but works well on my phone. I find it a pain to update the databases on my 496, so I like the ability to easily keep obstacle databases, etc... up to date on my tablet and phone.

Naviator: Used mainly as a backup to ^, and I like to support Android aviation apps. The developer does a good job of accepting feedback from the users, which is nice.

AOPA FlyQ: Installed this one recently. It's a partnership between Seattle Avionics and AOPA (also mentioned by CT4ME, above). Simple, clean interface for quick weather and airport info.

IO360 Power Calculator: Interesting app that will give you percent power settings for IO360 engines; including a selection option for "Best Power" or "Best Economy". I installed an EDM-830 fairly recently, but haven't gotten around to cross referencing the settings on each.

A couple of months ago I purchased another year of XM weather on my 496, but I'm hoping that by the time my subscription comes up again, the ADS-B hardware support for Android will be stable and it will be easier to make a decision. In an ideal world, I'd like to have something like WingX on Android, with support for not only ADS-B weather, but also synthetic vision and traffic, all in one software/hardware combo.
 
Try Quick Notes as an alternative to ForeFlight's scratchpad feature. With the quick app switching on the Nexus it nicely fills the need.

Also solved 12v charging issue. Read about an OEM Sprint 12v charger that will charge Nexus. Bought two off eBay. Works great. Best part....folding 120v prongs for use as charger on the road! Win!
 
LDJones said:
Try Quick Notes as an alternative to ForeFlight's scratchpad feature. With the quick app switching on the Nexus it nicely fills the need.

Also solved 12v charging issue. Read about an OEM Sprint 12v charger that will charge Nexus. Bought two off eBay. Works great. Best part....folding 120v prongs for use as charger on the road! Win!
Click to expand...
No joy finding Quick Notes in Google Play.

I also need to look for a stylus. I have one with a fat microfiber tip which is great for tapping at things but not good for drawing.

I'll report on how well the charger I got (2.1/1.0 amps) works with the Nexus later today.

Hope Garmin fixes the graphical editing on the Nexus... that's my only gripe at the moment. Oh, and they need a search feature to find a fix on the chart quickly.
 
Hey guys, after a lot of experimentation, I would suggest that in addition to Naviator and AirWX, you also should consider FlightIntel and FlightBriefer in your Android apps list. FlightIntel in particular is about to completely replace AirWX for me, although AirWX is still the faster way to check something quickly. FlightBriefer has the advantage of being able to log into DUATS for an official brief as well and I'm pretty happy with it.

Ryan
 
Just ran into a potential MAJOR issue with my new Samsung Stellar.

The unit comes with 4 GB of internal storage, and a microSD card, which accepts a 32GB card.

Sounds great, until...

Samsung has carved up the storage into multiple file systems under Android 4.x and 2 GB of the internal memory is listed as /mnt/sdcard, while the micro-sd card is /mnt/extSdCard
Of course, all the apps, including Garmin Pilot, want to put their data in /mnt/sdcard, because they think that's the removable sd card.

So I run out of storage space and can't download charts. I've got a call into Verizon who's looking at the issue. But I don't see a quick fix... I'm betting that either there will have to be some sort of app/patch to rename the mount points, or all android apps will have to put options in to select which filesystem to use for data storage.

Based on what I've read I believe that this is a change Google made on purpose.

Edit: Verizon showed me how to move the data to the external SD file system but as expected, Garmin Pilot was not happy with it running there.
 
Last edited:
4 GB internal is barely functional, IMHO. You've got 30 days to return it to Verizon, although they will charge you a $35 restocking fee.

Sent from my Nexus 7
 
I'm using an ASUS Transformer Prime with Avilution. I'm also using an HTC Droid Incredible 4G. Avilution on the Droid, however, won't run while the hotspot is active.
 
Jay Honeck said:
4 GB internal is barely functional, IMHO. You've got 30 days to return it to Verizon, although they will charge you a $35 restocking fee.

Sent from my Nexus 7
Click to expand...

The issue isn't how much storage there is on the phone. The issue is how that storage is named.

Before Ice Cream Sandwich (Android 4), the internal storage on a phone was generally mounted as /mnt/mmc or just /mmc. And the removable, additional SD card storage was /mnt/sdcard or /sdcard.

With ICS, /sdcard now refers to the internal storage available for apps and such, and /extSdCard refers to the microSD slot.

Apps don't know how to address this /extSdCard storage unless they were written with it in mind.

So.... Either a change to ICS to allow the microSD slot to be named /sdcard is needed, or the apps need to be updated to have some more intelligence about the new convention.

On a rooted device this isn't an issue. You can configure how the storage gets mounted at boot and point the microSD slot to be /sdcard.

I guess I'll let Garmin know... maybe they can make a code change.
 
TMetzinger said:
The issue isn't how much storage there is on the phone. The issue is how that storage is named.

Before Ice Cream Sandwich (Android 4), the internal storage on a phone was generally mounted as /mnt/mmc or just /mmc. And the removable, additional SD card storage was /mnt/sdcard or /sdcard.

With ICS, /sdcard now refers to the internal storage available for apps and such, and /extSdCard refers to the microSD slot.

Apps don't know how to address this /extSdCard storage unless they were written with it in mind.

So.... Either a change to ICS to allow the microSD slot to be named /sdcard is needed, or the apps need to be updated to have some more intelligence about the new convention.

On a rooted device this isn't an issue. You can configure how the storage gets mounted at boot and point the microSD slot to be /sdcard.

I guess I'll let Garmin know... maybe they can make a code change.
Click to expand...

Or...you can get a phone with more internal memory, and stop trying to change the world.
:D

Sent from my Nexus 7
 
Many applications let you specify the directory for downloaded data. Complain to the software writers :)
 
Aviluton has been great for me so far, and it even works with Xplane 10.
 
I've found a glitch in the use of the Nexus 7 in the plane. Actually, it's a potentially major glitch with any tablet.

It seems that some cigar lighter power cables put out insufficient power to keep ahead of the power usage of the tablet, especially when using aviation software that pushes them to the limit, what with Bluetooth, GPS, and brightness all set to max.

Today, while flying back from San Antonio's Stinson Field, the N7 went black. We had used it all the way into Stinson without issues. Apparently my wife accidentally left the thing on in her purse while we spent the day on the Riverwalk, and it had just enough juice to run for about 15 minutes on the return flight -- even plugged in to ship's power. It seems that the cheap, no-name, after-market cigar lighter charging cord I was using does not put out sufficient power to keep ahead of the N7's power drain when everything is on.

We, of course, had other options on board (a 496, VORs, etc.), and I switched over to my Samsung Galaxy S3 (which also runs Garmin Pilot just fine), but it was still pretty disconcerting to have the N7 run so far down that it literally would not restart.

In fact, I had to put it on the home charger for an hour before it would come back to life at all. THAT is a dead battery!

Interestingly, I watched the battery percentage on the phone the rest of the way -- and the power cord was only able to HOLD the battery's percentage at 34%, which is right where it was when I plugged it in. If that's the best it could do on the MUCH smaller screen of my cell phone, the tablet never stood a chance.

I remember the Garmin seminar at OSH talking about how this could happen on the iPad in flight, but it never dawned on me that the smaller Nexus 7 could share this potential problem. Well, it does.

So, lessons learned:

1. Don't leave the device on in your wife's purse for five hours, running Bluetooth, GPS, etc., and expect it to still be alive. Especially when you didn't start with a fully charged battery in the first place.

2. I'm gonna have to find a higher-output cigar lighter charging cord. I had no idea these things weren't standard, but it turns out that micro-USB power cords put out a wide variety of amperages.
 
Good thread on car chargers here - http://www.pilotsofamerica.com/forum/showthread.php?t=52501.

I bought one of the amazon units with a 2.1 and 1.0 amp outlet. The 2.1 is needed for devices like the Nexus and even the new smaller smart phones. I've yet to use it in an airplane though. I need to see what my iGo will do and if they have a 2.0 amp version of the microUSB adapter yet.
 
TMetzinger said:
Good thread on car chargers here - http://www.pilotsofamerica.com/forum/showthread.php?t=52501.

I bought one of the amazon units with a 2.1 and 1.0 amp outlet. The 2.1 is needed for devices like the Nexus and even the new smaller smart phones. I've yet to use it in an airplane though. I need to see what my iGo will do and if they have a 2.0 amp version of the microUSB adapter yet.
Click to expand...

I've spent the morning researching this problem, and have learned that this is an emerging, worldwide issue. The bottom line is that tablets need 2 amps to keep ahead of usage draw, and many car chargers won't put that out EVEN IF THEY ARE LABELED "HIGH OUTPUT 2.1 AMPS".

Here's why: Your devices are able to discern whether they are plugged into a computer (where they could draw only 500 milliamps) or a wall charger (where they could draw up to 2.1 amps). This is accomplished by sensing a short circuit in two wires inside the USB device. If the Nexus 7 sees the short, it knows it can draw the full 2 amps. If not, it thinks its connected to a PC, and only draws 500 milliamps.

And dies a slow death, as mine did yesterday.

The solution is a high output car charger that conforms to this standard. Unfortunately, Apple has decided to forgo the worldwide standard, and now uses a different method of providing information to each device to determine amperage output. Thus, a "high output" car charger that works to keep an iPad charged may not do so with our Nexus 7s -- and vice versa.

What's really stupid is that my cheapie car charging cord wouldn't work with Apple devices anyway (they have USB plugs, after all) but the circuitry in the business end of the cord was apparemtly designed to the Apple standard. So...the N7 thought it was plugged into a PC and didn't pull enough juice to keep itself alive after a full day of (mostly accidental) usage.

What to do? In my case, I've got a Motorola car charge cord that reportedly (according to The Internets) will do the job. I'm going to discard my no-name el cheapo chargers.

Jeez. Just when I thought we finally had a nice, neat universal standard that resolved our power issues once and for all...

Sent from my Nexus 7
 
At least they are all dual voltage. 110/220 I couldn't handle keeping track going from North America to Europe and back. :D

Cheers
 
An update on a couple of things I've learned about Garmin Pilot:

After a 20+ minute wait on hold, I got through to Garmin aviation tech support for the Pilot, and the guy was ****ing awesome (that's the highest praise I can bestow). He had a great attitude, knew the product pretty well, and wasn't afraid to say "let me ask".

I let them know about the file system issues with new smartphones calling internal memory /sdcard and he said he'd bring that up at their weekly issues meeting so that everybody knew about it, and that the developers attended that meeting. He was grateful for the information as more and more users who don't buy the top-tier units with 16+ GB of internal storage will find that they can't store all the maps/charts they want/need to.

He also told me that the way the system processes chart data is that it keeps two cycles on board - the current cycle and the previous cycle. the previous cycle gets deleted and replaced with the next cycle when it becomes available, and the process repeats. This is nice because you're unlikely to be stuck without data if you're disconnected during an update cycle, but it does mean you need space for two cycles. I suspected this was how it worked but was glad to get an answer.
 
Jay Honeck said:
I've spent the morning researching this problem, and have learned that this is an emerging, worldwide issue. The bottom line is that tablets need 2 amps to keep ahead of usage draw, and many car chargers won't put that out EVEN IF THEY ARE LABELED "HIGH OUTPUT 2.1 AMPS".

Here's why: Your devices are able to discern whether they are plugged into a computer (where they could draw only 500 milliamps) or a wall charger (where they could draw up to 2.1 amps). This is accomplished by sensing a short circuit in two wires inside the USB device. If the Nexus 7 sees the short, it knows it can draw the full 2 amps. If not, it thinks its connected to a PC, and only draws 500 milliamps.

Jeez. Just when I thought we finally had a nice, neat universal standard that resolved our power issues once and for all...

Sent from my Nexus 7
Click to expand...


Follow up on this... I took the ASUS cable that came with the wall charger out and tried to charge my Nexus from the 2.1 amp outlet on the car charger. No joy. Used a cable from iGo in the same outlet - charged the unit just fine.

For reference, here are links to Amazon.

igo coiled cable: http://tinyurl.com/8coetzs
iGo micro-usb tip (A97) http://tinyurl.com/8zt35zk
Mediabridge dual charger http://tinyurl.com/8u8all3

The iGo tip works with my iGo auto/AC adapter too... so I can run my laptop and my nexus, or my phone, from the charger. Just a plug for iGo, as I bought one three years ago and it's powered all my different laptops and usb stuff properly.
 
Last edited:
Jay Honeck said:
Unfortunately, Apple has decided to forgo the worldwide standard, and now uses a different method of providing information to each device to determine amperage output.
Click to expand...

You buying a non-Apple manufactured device and not knowing whether or not its compatible with your device is ... of course, Apple's fault.

Not to mention not testing your in-flight tools. And not securing the power off when you needed the battery life.

Allllllll Apple's fault. ROFL.

Wasn't there a certified car charger from your device's manufacturer, instead of untested junk from China?
 
So, on my Samsung Tablet there is a red X through the battery when you try and charge via an adapter it doesn't recognize to warn you it can't get enough power. On the Nexus 7, both adapters I tried showed the same charge symbol but using a 3rd party battery app(Battery and Battery Mix) showed that one was charging at 'USB' and one was 'AC'. The USB charge speed couldn't keep up with the display, WiFi, Bluetooth and GPS. But the AC could.

I do wish they made the charge icon a bit different so you could tell when it wasn't really charging enough without using a 3rd party app.

Edit: You don't need a 3rd party app, it also says at the top of the Battery screen in settings. Charging( USB ) or Charging(AC).
 
Last edited:
I learned the voltage issue with my iPad2. But I found the Nexus 7 wouldn't charge with any of the 2.1A chargers I had for my iPad, even though my other Android phones did just fine. Found some tips on an Android forum somewhere that pointed me to a source for a Sprint branded 12v/120v combo charger that works great. The AC plugs fold into the otherwise standard 12v cig lighter adapter. I bought two! One is kept in my truck and the other is in my flight bag.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top