Nothing like asking a group of knowledgeable people their humble (or not) opinion. Have been pushing this idea Round in my mind for some time and finally decided to put it into the arena. I am a PPL who is flying a classic aircraft as an LSA with some satisfaction/dissatisfaction. The biggest problem here is CAS. I would like to have something closer to the Las limit # of 138 mph so as to extend that first "gas" stop. The other LSA factors don't have an impact on my flying mission and I'm looking for that aircraft or kit which could deliver this without going absolutely stratospheric in procurement cost. I need the two passenger capability and obviously 1320 MGW to be satisfied but am willing to do the necessary load management otherwise. I'm not putting a cost cap on this just to eliminate that from the auto response that "you don't understand the economics of aircraft ownership". I will appreciate any thoughtful response.
An LSA that Performs
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Skylane81E
Final Approach
Sonex
murphey
Touchdown! Greaser!
Jabiru.
For some strange reason, they designed and built an LSA that can handle a reasonable load, not merely 20# and 2 people. It doesn't use the Rotax engine, has the Jabiru's own designed engine. With one person you can even get golf bag or skis in the back. Eric's go one but he may not be online right now.
For some strange reason, they designed and built an LSA that can handle a reasonable load, not merely 20# and 2 people. It doesn't use the Rotax engine, has the Jabiru's own designed engine. With one person you can even get golf bag or skis in the back. Eric's go one but he may not be online right now.
ChitDisturber
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ChitDisturber
Not sure if it meets all the limited LSA reqs, might be a little hot, but the Whittman
Tailwind would more then meet performance reqs and be on budget too!
Have you considered upgrading to a PPL aircraft, the whole point of LSA aircraft is they aren't really meant to perform.
Tailwind would more then meet performance reqs and be on budget too!
Have you considered upgrading to a PPL aircraft, the whole point of LSA aircraft is they aren't really meant to perform.
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Kiddo's Driver
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Jim
http://www.bristell.com/
5th generation S-LSA. Wonderful aircraft. Lots of speed, storage, and performance. It had a great deal of input from an active A&P/IA and Pilot to improve the maintainability of the aircraft. For example, when you eventually need to reseal the metal fuel tanks you take off a panel on each tank that is something like 2 foot by 1.5 foot to gain access to the tank internals. The LSRM-A or A&P does not have to kill himself trying to strip out the old sealant and install the new through a six inch hole.
A lot of thought went into this aircraft.
Jim
5th generation S-LSA. Wonderful aircraft. Lots of speed, storage, and performance. It had a great deal of input from an active A&P/IA and Pilot to improve the maintainability of the aircraft. For example, when you eventually need to reseal the metal fuel tanks you take off a panel on each tank that is something like 2 foot by 1.5 foot to gain access to the tank internals. The LSRM-A or A&P does not have to kill himself trying to strip out the old sealant and install the new through a six inch hole.
A lot of thought went into this aircraft.
Jim
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jnmeade
Cleared for Takeoff
Used Flight Design CTSW are available for $80K and less. They'll do the speed and other requirements. I have one and like it.
I flew and don't like the Jabiru 250, but it does have good points. I flew and like the Tecnam P2008. I don't know what their support is like.
If you want to maintain it yourself, you can take it ELSA and take a 16 hour course and do that. If you want to keep it SLSA you need to take the 120 hour course or use an A&P. You may want to think about your maintenance preferences to be sure the right airframe and engine mechanics are available to support your choice.
Good luck.
I flew and don't like the Jabiru 250, but it does have good points. I flew and like the Tecnam P2008. I don't know what their support is like.
If you want to maintain it yourself, you can take it ELSA and take a 16 hour course and do that. If you want to keep it SLSA you need to take the 120 hour course or use an A&P. You may want to think about your maintenance preferences to be sure the right airframe and engine mechanics are available to support your choice.
Good luck.
bullwinkle
Pattern Altitude
Second the CTSW. Mine has a useful load of 585lb, and I see 114 knots at 75% (5200rpm) and 124 knots at WOT (5500rpm) at 3000 MSL. Also flies great at 65 knots if you want some low and slow action.
Old Geek
Pattern Altitude
Another CTSW owner here. Great airplane, dependable, fast, economical with fuel and fun to fly.
Kiddo's Driver
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Todd Copeland
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This.
ChitDisturber
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ChitDisturber
Those numbers do NOT make a $80,000 used aircraft IMO.
I'd want a way wider envelope and capabilities for that kind of money.
BTW 65kts aint low and slow, maybe 45kts :wink2:
bullwinkle
Pattern Altitude
The question was about LSA, not all aircraft. I would put the CT against just about anything in the LSA space on value.
Dav8or
Final Approach
What about an RV-12? I'm not up on the latest LSA info, but when I checked out the Vans factory RV-12 in person, I was pretty impressed.
LandSickness
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fri tale
Sonex.
bullwinkle
Pattern Altitude
I was building a Sonex before buying the CTSW. They are great...handle like little fighters, aerobatic (+6/-3), built like a tank.
BUT...you have to either build it or buy it built. I have looked at a LOT of Sonex and Waiex (the Y-tail version, flies the same), and there are very few that I would consider buying, just because build quality varies extremely. The fact is the Sonex is built for economy, and a lot of Sonex builders want to build something as cheaply as possible, leading to cutting corners in areas of the build.
Great examples can be found, but make sure you know what to look for. If you build it, then no problem!
Oh, and you have to be okay with a very narrow cockpit for two people (I think 36-38"), and a useful load in the 500lb range (holds 16-17 gallons of fuel, ~100lb, leaving you with 400lb for people and stuff).
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bullwinkle
Pattern Altitude
Nothing at all wrong with the RV-12. Will cost about $60-70K if you build it, $125K if you buy it built at the factory.
Dav8or
Final Approach
Is that what they're up to now? I remember reading that they were selling the factory built under $110k. However, it seems their commitment to the factory build program is pretty weak. I think they really just want to be in the kit business. There seem to be a lot of people building the kit though, so completed used ones should be turning up in numbers soon.
bullwinkle
Pattern Altitude
The first batch was $110k...the current batch is $123k.
Geico266
Touchdown! Greaser!
They sold the first dozen planes in a day, second dozen has a 50 buyers waiting list I've been told. The company building them has gone from 4 employees to 50 in a hear. Not sure where you heard they are not committed to the factory build ones.
There are several flying versions on the market in the 80's.
They are a very nice airplane.
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Jimmy cooper
En-Route
Gas consumption is very low in a Rans. None of them are world beaters on speed. A pal finished a Sonex last year and really likes it. It hustles along pretty nicely with an 85 hp VW engine. Personally after being forced to fly light sport, speed is no longer my bag. I would buy a Rans Courrier quickly if I could find a high time Tail dragger partner. It performs like a supercub. a nice used one is 50 to 60 grand.
Dav8or
Final Approach
Not sure where you heard they are not committed to the factory build ones.
There are several flying versions on the market in the 80's.
They are a very nice airplane.
Just an observation. Say you're an LSA buyer and you hear about the Vans RV-12 and want to know more information, so you go to their website to find out stuff like, how much, what options, what colors, where to buy, you know regular buyer stuff. What you find is almost zero mention of the factory built plane except a link to put you on an email list that cautions you that just because you signed up to the email list there is no gaurantee that you will ever get a plane.
A while back, Vans used to have info about the factory -12 on their website, now the only thing you can find there is if you dig in the archives and pull up old news from years ago. You can however, find out all you want to know about the kit version of the RV-12.
To an outsider, it has the look and feel of a company that made a bad decision and wishes it would go away.
yakdriver
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yellow peril
My Dad has a Remos GX. Great airplane with 650lb useful load. Really responsive nice flying airplane that two big guys can fly. Also if anyone wants a RV12 built I will be looking for a project in the spring. I have three projects to finish up right now and would really like to build a 12. Don
Geico266
Touchdown! Greaser!
For an outsider yes, I agree.
Vans has always been lacking in marketing the "sizzle" of selling. If you have done your research, flown in one, talked to several owners, they dont, have to sell anything. Hence, the waiting list to buy.
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