An "atta boy" to a pro pilot defending GA

nddons

nddons

Touchdown! Greaser!
Joined
Aug 4, 2007
Messages
13,304
Location
Waukesha County, WI
Display Name
Stan
Home Airfield
KUES
I picked up USA Today today, and saw a great letter to the editor.

James Fisher, a professional pilot from LA, rightously defended GA against a USA Today editorial "Give fliers a break." James says the problem is not lack of airspace, but lack of runways. He states that any long-term solution to our congestion problems must include more airports and runways.

The last paragraph says:

"In the short term, pointing a finger at private aircraft and corporate jets misses the point. I challenge USA Today's readers to look out the window next time they are at a major airport, such as John F. Kennedy International, and count the number of private aircraft they see. I suspect the number will be close to zero."

Atta boy, James. :cheerswine::cheerswine::cheerswine: A tip of the hat to you as I fly LAX-MKE on Wednesday.
 
Good for him!! Yaay!

grump that I am, though, I'm surprised that USA Today printed it without a picture of the devil or a dunce next to the letter. :rolleyes:
 
Something else either missed or outright avoided in all these hit and run articles... how many of us mix it up with airliners at our home airport or where we fly to? It's tough enough getting delayed at the tenth busiest GA airport (PDK) in the nation. I dang sure don't want to make delays longer and more expensive by adding scheduled traffic. For that reason, I'd be a nut for wanting to set it down at ATL at any time of the day.

Even the terminal areas do not include that much mixing between scheduled and GA, largely thanks to different sectors and altitudes in the arrivals and departures.

GA is about as at fault for delays in scheduled traffic as I am for Eclipse not pushing the Mustang out of the VLJ market. It's nothing more than rhetoric by the stupid walking among us.

Thank goodness for the few who are intelligent and knowledgeable of GA and can get published.
 
I've begun warning friends away from the major hubs. Its only a matter of time before an overworked and very harried controller sends an airliner flown by an inexperienced pilot into another airliner flown by an inexperienced pilot. They'll probably blame us for that too.
 
KennyFlys said:
Something else either missed or outright avoided in all these hit and run articles... how many of us mix it up with airliners at our home airport or where we fly to?
Click to expand...

Define airliners? We have regularly scheduled service to IPT but one can hardly say that there is much mixing when it only comes 4 times a day and it's a Dash 80 turbo prop. There is more airline traffic into State Collage and they don't even have a tower. Mostly I'd say even corprate jets avoid the big hubs if there is a viable alternative because of the delays.

One of the few people I know who 'mix it up' for fun was One Short. She went into DTW & that was late at night with prior permission because it was the only public use airport she had not landed at in MI. (Then EdFred just had to open another!)

Missa
 
Missa said:
One of the few people I know who 'mix it up' for fun was One Short. She went into DTW & that was late at night with prior permission because it was the only public use airport she had not landed at in MI. (Then EdFred just had to open another!)

Missa
Click to expand...
Well, both Bruce and Leslie've flown into ORD.
 
I went into DTW for a touch and go. An SWA 737 had to wait maybe 20 seconds longer while I turned away from the runway.

I've been into PIT, IAD, DCA, BDL, COS, and PHX and the controllers didn't have to hold me, spin me, or vector me. I was able to use shorter runways (where the airport had them) and not interfere with the main traffic flow at any of them.
 
gprellwitz said:
Well, both Bruce and Leslie've flown into ORD.
Click to expand...

True, Does Bruce do it for fun or for his angle flgihts?? I know Leslie did it for the ConUS Challenge and I LOVED the write up. Agian, she called and found out when the best 'least disruptive' time would be to come in when she did it too. That's really the only time I know that the little planes 'mix it up' with the airliners.

Missa
 
Missa said:
True, Does Bruce do it for fun or for his angle flgihts?? I know Leslie did it for the ConUS Challenge and I LOVED the write up. Agian, she called and found out when the best 'least disruptive' time would be to come in when she did it too. That's really the only time I know that the little planes 'mix it up' with the airliners.

Missa
Click to expand...

Bruce lives "downstate." He sometimes flies into O'Hare and Midway to connect with flights with family members.
 
It's true...I know of a terrific spot for a GA airport...stumbled on it yesterday while taking a walk in Chicago.
'Nuff said... :rolleyes:
 

Attachments

  • rot02180803.JPG
    rot02180803.JPG
    147.3 KB · Views: 44
Missa said:
Define airliners? We have regularly scheduled service to IPT but one can hardly say that there is much mixing when it only comes 4 times a day and it's a Dash 80 turbo prop. There is more airline traffic into State Collage and they don't even have a tower. Mostly I'd say even corprate jets avoid the big hubs if there is a viable alternative because of the delays.

One of the few people I know who 'mix it up' for fun was One Short. She went into DTW & that was late at night with prior permission because it was the only public use airport she had not landed at in MI. (Then EdFred just had to open another!)

Missa
Click to expand...
I'm not referring to the small regional flights into places such as CGI or even SAV. In many cases, there's no choice. But, the scheduled traffic is quite minor such as what you described.

But, there are those people who blame GA for delays into and out of major terminal areas such as ATL, BOS, STL, etc. That simply isn't true.
 
There are a few busy airports which have both a fair amount of airlines and GA. Just off the top of my head I can think of Orange County John Wayne, Chicago Midway, Houston Hobby, Dallas Love and Oakland (where I got my private). We go into Denver International quite often but that is usually because we are serving as a connecting flight into one of the mountain airports.
 
That's who I wanted to hear from. I also know that Mari chose Detroit City over Metro when visiting Detroit. Unless there is a very good reason, like being a connecting flight, or there is no other viable option (Midway vs the now missing Miges) even the corprate jets avoid the big hubs where all the delays happen.
 
KennyFlys said:
.... It's nothing more than rhetoric by the stupid walking among us.
Click to expand...


If only it were that. :(

There is no "stupid" to it. It is a cold, calculated strategy. Throw GA under the bus and get concessions for ourselves now without spending a dime.

KennyFlys said:
Thank goodness for the few who are intelligent and knowledgeable of GA and can get published.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately it is a whisper in a roar of trumpeting fanfare.
 
Hobby, for being a busy airline-served class B, does see a lot of GA traffic. If I were to hazard a guess based on my own observations with the time I've spent there at the museum, I'd say it's nearly 30-40 percent GA. I don't think they've ever had to delay an airliner because of a GA plane. Most of the time, they make the GA plane hold at an intersecting taxiway while the airliner gets cleared for takeoff in front of them, or the GA plane uses a smaller runway when the winds are favorable.

Interesting sidebar - I flew to SAT shortly after getting my PPL and when I was departing, I taxied out on the outer of the two parallel taxiways to the runway in use, and did my runup on a connector taxiway between them. I finished my runup and was holding position while a SWA 737 was taxiing up the inner parallel taxiway, and he actually stopped and asked ground if two-niner-echo (me) was ready to go or if he should continue to the end. Ground wound up telling him to continue to the end, but I thought it was cool that this big 737 stopped and was asking if I should go first.
 
For 2007, Hobby is 37th busiest in the US, down from 35th in 2006. It's number of operations in 2007 are 236,742. This is a fourth of Hartsfield's 991,627 operations as the busiest airport in the nation for 2007.

If we take it down to only air carriers, Hobby had 110,151 operations to Hartsfield's 722,461; well over six times the difference. Hobby moves to 38th for air carrier only.

Here's the total operations for the top 25 busiest:
  1. 991,627-----Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta Int’l. (ATL)
  2. 926,973-----Chicago/O’Hare Int’l. (ORD)
  3. 686,711-----Dallas/Ft. Worth Int’l. (DFW)
  4. 680,954-----Los Angeles International (LAX)
  5. 619,941-----Denver International (DEN)
  6. 619,287-----Las Vegas/Mc Carran Int’l. (LAS)
  7. 603,641-----Houston/G. Bush Intercont’l. (IAH)
  8. 539,211-----Phoenix Sky Harbor Int’l. (PHX)
  9. 525,943-----Charlotte/Douglas Int’l. (CLT)
  10. 499,683-----Philadelphia International (PHL)
  11. 467,442-----Detroit Metro Wayne Co. (DTW)
  12. 456,835-----John F. Kennedy Int’l. (JFK)
  13. 453,566-----Minneapolis-St. Paul Int’l. (MSP)
  14. 441,908-----Newark International (EWR)
  15. 420,996-----Salt Lake City Int’l. (SLC)
  16. 419,127-----Washington Dulles Int’l. (IAD)
  17. 401,890-----Boston/Logan International (BOS)
  18. 397,280-----La Guardia (LGA)
  19. 386,367-----Miami International (MIA)
  20. 379,568-----San Francisco Int’l. (SFO)
  21. 376,528-----Memphis International (MEM)
  22. 367,860-----Orlando International (MCO)
  23. 347,046-----Seattle Tacoma Int’l. (SEA)
  24. 328,261-----Covington/Cincinnati Int’l. (CVG)
  25. 307,952-----Ft. Lauderdale/Hollywood (FLL)
Click to expand...
Note how far I had to go to include JFK, LGA and ERW. Then, consider the total of all three; 1,296,023. That's a LOT of flights!

The top 25 busiest for air carrier only:
  1. 722,461-----Hartsfield-Jackson Int’l. (ATL)
  2. 617,135-----Chicago O’Hare Int’l. (ORD)
  3. 477,920-----Dallas Ft. Worth Int’l. (DFW)
  4. 467,193-----Los Angles International (LAX)
  5. 451,192-----Denver International (DEN)
  6. 408,641-----Phoenix Sky Harbor Int’l. (PHX)
  7. 407,618-----Las Vegas/Mc Carran Int’l (MSP)
  8. 356,364-----John F. Kennedy Int’l. (JFK)
  9. 294,307-----Miami International (MIA)
  10. 291,400-----Orlando International (MCO)
  11. 290,886-----Houston/G. Bush Int’l. (IAH)
  12. 289,850-----Charlotte/Douglas Int’l. (CLT)
  13. 286,310-----Minneapolis-St. Paul Int’l. (MSP)
  14. 276,954-----Seattle Tacoma Int’l. (SEA)
  15. 274,720-----Philadelphia International (PHL)
  16. 273,652-----Newark International (EWR)
  17. 271,025-----Detroit Metro Wayne Co. (DTW)
  18. 262,135-----San Francisco Int’l (SFO)
  19. 212,347-----Memphis International (MEM)
  20. 209,182-----Baltimore-Washington Int’l. (BWI)
  21. 205,109-----Boston/Logan International (BOS)
  22. 200,814-----La Guardia (LGA)
  23. 198,949-----Chicago Midway (MDW)
  24. 193,712-----Ft. Lauderdale/Hollywood (FLL)
  25. 185,807-----Washington Dulles Int’l (IAD)
Click to expand...
With air carriers alone, O'Hare is a distant second to Hartsfield. Both left Dallas in the dust on both counts. If you consider the same three in the New York area again, that's still a total of 830,830 operations.

The source link for this is:
Top 50 Busiest Air Carrier U.S. Airports for 2007
You can modify it to show 2006 or 2007 for total ops or only air carrier.

I think that backs up my earlier statement that GA really doesn't have much of a bite on those dromes where air carriers are so busy. One thing is certainly clear... only nuts and freight feeders go into Hartsfield. :)
 
Not to spoil your argument or anything but I have been to all the airports on your top 25 air carrier only list with the exception of Newark (EWR). :redface:
 
Everskyward said:
Not to spoil your argument or anything but I have been to all the airports on your top 25 air carrier only list with the exception of Newark (EWR). :redface:
Click to expand...
Well, get busy and stop there. I'm sure they would accept your landing fee. :)
 
KennyFlys said:
Something else either missed or outright avoided in all these hit and run articles... how many of us mix it up with airliners at our home airport or where we fly to?
Click to expand...

Me me me me me! (And we've got military fixed-wing and rotorcraft ops too.)

Luckily, there's very little conflict between GA and airlines at MSN. Airlines are on the West ramp and use mostly runway 18-36; GA is on the East and South ramps and uses mostly 14-32 and 3-21 and the controllers do an excellent job of moving everything from 152's to A320's to F-16's smoothly and efficiently.

I can tell you exactly what delays most airline flights here: Chicago. "Eagle Flight 1234, readback correct. Taxi to the north holding bay, expect your release in 52 minutes..." One advantage of the GA traffic almost always departing runways 32 or 21 is that the unfortunate folks sitting on those aircraft in the north and south holding bays do NOT see any of the numerous GA aircraft taxiing straight to the runway and departing.

I wanted to claim ORD for the ConUS challenge, but I did not want to go there and be seen by any airline pax before the FAA reauthorization is passed sans user fees. Too many cell phones with digital cameras these days that could be used to "prove" why us little flivvers need to pay more... Someday, I'll go.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
I wanted to claim ORD for the ConUS challenge, but I did not want to go there and be seen by any airline pax before the FAA reauthorization is passed sans user fees. Too many cell phones with digital cameras these days that could be used to "prove" why us little flivvers need to pay more... Someday, I'll go.
Click to expand...
Go about 2AM. :)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top