Amusing controller commet

flyingron

flyingron

I am not the Ari
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FlyingRon
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I was flying into Peducah (KPAH) Friday morning talking to Memphis center. I was told to expect 22 so I'm heading that way. On about a two mile left base I inquire to center if they want me on tower and am immediately told to switch. As I switch I hear them clearing a 182 further out to land. I call in and report my position and they clear me and ask the 182 to adjust.

I apologize for the late call but told them Center didn't hand me off until late. Tower told me that's why they're called "Enroute" controllers.
 
Cute story. And raises a procedure question since I've also experienced not being given the hand off until way later than I was expecting it.

Must you wait until the "existing" controller has handed you off, even if you need to tickle him, or can you make the PIC decision that you really need to be talking to tower and switch on your own?
 
AggieMike88 said:
Must you wait until the "existing" controller has handed you off, even if you need to tickle him, or can you make the PIC decision that you really need to be talking to tower and switch on your own?
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I'll probably be first on YES mountain. Switching without direction from your current controlling authority is not acceptable if you still have radio contact with them.
 
Mike, I wouldn't swap freqs unprompted but you could certainly ping the enroute controller, "should I swap to tower?"
 
Having witnessed (right seat) what happens when you leave flight following without handoff or notification, I wouldn't recommend it, especially at a nontowered airport.

The pilot made a fuel stop without telling NorCal. Resulted in an ALNOT and a phone number to call when he came back up. There isn't any reg against it, but it really does cause some panic when they think you're dead.
 
flyingron said:
I was flying into Peducah (KPAH) Friday morning talking to Memphis center. I was told to expect 22 so I'm heading that way. On about a two mile left base I inquire to center if they want me on tower and am immediately told to switch. As I switch I hear them clearing a 182 further out to land. I call in and report my position and they clear me and ask the 182 to adjust.

I apologize for the late call but told them Center didn't hand me off until late. Tower told me that's why they're called "Enroute" controllers.
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You don't have to wait for the controller to tell you to contact the tower. When you're at an appropriate distance from the field, ten miles or so, just tell the enroute controller bye-bye and call the tower. If you can't get a word in on the center frequency call the tower anyway.
 
rolivi said:
I'll probably be first on YES mountain. Switching without direction from your current controlling authority is not acceptable if you still have radio contact with them.
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Why is it unacceptable?
 
You should "query ATC" any time there is any ambiguity...or if they forgot about you.
 
On this same topic...I've had mixed experiences leaving Class D fields. Sometimes they'll give me a frequency change message, others..not so much. I've always stayed on frequency until out of their airspace at least, but is that OK?
 
I would just query the enroute or approach controller, as a courtesy if for no other reason. This happened frequently in ATL as the final controller was always busy and neglected to switch us to tower freq. occasionally. Usually I'd just say "(call sign) to tower". And there were times when final didn't acknowledge for whatever reason, so we'd just switch at 5 miles.
 
Caramon13 said:
On this same topic...I've had mixed experiences leaving Class D fields. Sometimes they'll give me a frequency change message, others..not so much. I've always stayed on frequency until out of their airspace at least, but is that OK?
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Yes. I also would do that too.
 
VFR handoff from Tracon to Tower can get complicated in busy airspace when the frequency is congested. I had a recent case where I simply couldn't get in a word edgewise on Tracon, and could see me entering the class D on the GPS still on Tracon. Finally got a reminder through followed by immediate handoff to Tower, about 4 out. After giving me the landing instructions the tower lady admonished me to "please try to call us earlier next time." I replied that Approach freq was busy and I couldn't get a word in. She just acknowledged, without any real apology.
 
Caramon13 said:
On this same topic...I've had mixed experiences leaving Class D fields. Sometimes they'll give me a frequency change message, others..not so much. I've always stayed on frequency until out of their airspace at least, but is that OK?
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Correct. Stay on the freq while in their airspace unless told to change early. Once outside you can change on your own. Usually, if tower isn't busy I'll tell them I'm changing and to have a good day.
 
RotorDude said:
VFR handoff from Tracon to Tower can get complicated in busy airspace when the frequency is congested. I had a recent case where I simply couldn't get in a word edgewise on Tracon, and could see me entering the class D on the GPS still on Tracon. Finally got a reminder through followed by immediate handoff to Tower, about 4 out. After giving me the landing instructions the tower lady admonished me to "please try to call us earlier next time." I replied that Approach freq was busy and I couldn't get a word in. She just acknowledged, without any real apology.
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So, perfect example here. In that case do you just say, screw it and change over to tower? I've had the same situation coming out of fields where the flight was short enough that I would depart and not even contact approach, just go right to tower because I couldn't get a hold of approach due to congestion.
 
Being in class C,D and nearby B. I never switch without being told . The tracon may be responsible for spacing, into the D airport.
 
Steven can check me on this, but I think in all cases of flight following or flying IFR, the tower knows who you are and that you are coming. In most cases they also have you tagged up on radar. So it's unlikely that you will surprise them even if you call in a little late.

I will either wait for a handoff or "Request frequency change" if I think I might have been forgotten.
 
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airdale said:
Steven can check me on this, but I think in all cases of flight following or flying IFR, the tower knows who you are and that you are coming. In many cases they also have you tagged up on radar. So it's unlikely that you will surprise them even if you call in a little late.

I will either wait for a handoff or "Request frequency change" if I think I might have been forgotten.
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True that! ;)
 
I've heard of someone getting "squawk vfr, frequency changed approved" AFTER entering a class D. Entering a class D with a code and two way comm and having it stripped away from you would probably be a WTF situation. In the bay area a few of the towers and approach controllers work together and the approach controller in some cases will tell you to enter a pattern but not to swap frequencies yet. I could see myself getting stuck in that kind of trap, at a foreign airport, thinking approach is communicating with tower then getting dumped since it seems to be normal practice to me but somewhere else it could just be an "I forgot about you, sorry" kind of thing.
 
TheGolfPilot said:
I've heard of someone getting "squawk vfr, frequency changed approved" AFTER entering a class D. Entering a class D with a code and two way comm and having it stripped away from you would probably be a WTF situation. In the bay area a few of the towers and approach controllers work together and the approach controller in some cases will tell you to enter a pattern but not to swap frequencies yet. I could see myself getting stuck in that kind of trap, at a foreign airport, thinking approach is communicating with tower then getting dumped since it seems to be normal practice to me but somewhere else it could just be an "I forgot about you, sorry" kind of thing.
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Nothing unusual about that really. You don't need a squawk code in class D. I'm always 1200 in or out of that airspace unless I happen to pickup FF on my way out or am on an IFR plan.
 
TheGolfPilot said:
I've heard of someone getting "squawk vfr, frequency changed approved" AFTER entering a class D. Entering a class D with a code and two way comm and having it stripped away from you would probably be a WTF situation. ...
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Why? You're following ATC's instructions and in communication. In the extremely unlikely case where the local controller wants to talk to you about it on the ground, all you need to tell him/her is that you called as soon as Approach turned you loose.

Seems odd to be told to squawk 1200. I don't know what benefit that has to ATC except that it makes clear to the tower that you are VFR traffic, something they should already know. They can't dump you like that on an IFR clearance. Maybe Steven or another controller can chime in here.
 
airdale said:
Steven can check me on this, but I think in all cases of flight following or flying IFR, the tower knows who you are and that you are coming. In most cases they also have you tagged up on radar. So it's unlikely that you will surprise them even if you call in a little late.
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Approach/Center must provide the tower with information on IFR arrivals. There is no similar requirement for VFR arrivals. VFR aircraft inbound to a towered airport with a radar feed in the tower will likely have data blocks displayed with all pertinent information but there's nothing to be gained by having that information forwarded to non-radar towers by Approach/Center as the initial call by the pilot tends to include all of it anyway.
 
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roncachamp said:
Approach/Center must provide the tower with information on IFR arrivals. There is no similar requirement VFR arrivals. VFR aircraft inbound to a towered airport with a radar feed in the tower will likely have data blocks displayed with all pertinent information but there's nothing to be gained by having that information forwarded to non-radar towers by Approach/Center as the initial call by the pilot tends to include all of it anyway.
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Bolded area for emphasis. Another reason squawk code isn't a major deal. I think there's only a couple D's near me with radar, but those that don't have them just ask me to report a 3 mile base or when I'm past a bridge, or at a certain point, then they look for me and clear me in. The code I'm on has absolutely no bearing to them whatsoever.
 
airdale said:
Why? You're following ATC's instructions and in communication. In the extremely unlikely case where the local controller wants to talk to you about it on the ground, all you need to tell him/her is that you called as soon as Approach turned you loose.

Seems odd to be told to squawk 1200. I don't know what benefit that has to ATC except that it makes clear to the tower that you are VFR traffic, something they should already know. They can't dump you like that on an IFR clearance. Maybe Steven or another controller can chime in here.
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He got an ear full on the ground and told ABQ APP doesn't communicate with Double Eagle Tower. Nobody was written up, it was probably a mistake on all ends, but it did happen. Maybe an ABQ native can fill in on some local knowledge.
 
roncachamp said:
Approach/Center must provide the tower with information on IFR arrivals. There is no similar requirement VFR arrivals. VFR aircraft inbound to a towered airport with a radar feed in the tower will likely have data blocks displayed with all pertinent information but there's nothing to be gained by having that information forwarded to non-radar towers by Approach/Center as the initial call by the pilot tends to include all of it anyway.
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Interesting. I thought that strips were generated both for IFR and for FF. Apparently not the case?
 
airdale said:
Interesting. I thought that strips were generated both for IFR and for FF. Apparently not the case?
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Tower's don't necessarily have strip printers period. HEF didn't. The OSH controllers used to beg the FAA to leave the one they installed during the airshow for the rest of hte year.
 
airdale said:
Interesting. I thought that strips were generated both for IFR and for FF. Apparently not the case?
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They could be generated for VFR if the controller types the information in. Usually for an inbound it's pointless. Just hand write everything on a blank strip.
 
airdale said:
Interesting. I thought that strips were generated both for IFR and for FF. Apparently not the case?
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Strips are generated for VFR aircraft only if the flight has been entered in the Flight Data Processing computer. For flights where data will not be transferred to another radar facility there's no reason for it to be entered. When the destination is a towered airport with approach control on the field there's no reason for arrival strips in the tower at all, IFR or VFR, as the radar data block will have all the needed info.
 
flyingron said:
Tower's don't necessarily have strip printers period. HEF didn't. The OSH controllers used to beg the FAA to leave the one they installed during the airshow for the rest of hte year.
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That was an odd situation. There used to be a limit on the number of flight strip printers that could be supported by the ARTCC Flight Data Processing computer. During the EAA Fly-In OSH tower had a printer and DBQ tower went without. The rest of the year it was the other way round. From what I recall of the traffic counts at the time the annual printer swapping didn't seem warranted.
 
roncachamp said:
Strips are generated for VFR aircraft only if the flight has been entered in the Flight Data Processing computer. For flights where data will not be transferred to another radar facility there's no reason for it to be entered. When the destination is a towered airport with approach control on the field there's no reason for arrival strips in the tower at all, IFR or VFR, as the radar data block will have all the needed info.
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Ah, got it. My normal scenario is departing my home airport talking to the nearby Bravo TRACON, then getting shipped to Center, aka "another radar facility." Or arriving via Center, then the TRACON. So I guess that's why I thought all FF got strips.
 
airdale said:
Why? You're following ATC's instructions and in communication. In the extremely unlikely case where the local controller wants to talk to you about it on the ground, all you need to tell him/her is that you called as soon as Approach turned you loose.

Seems odd to be told to squawk 1200. I don't know what benefit that has to ATC except that it makes clear to the tower that you are VFR traffic, something they should already know. They can't dump you like that on an IFR clearance. Maybe Steven or another controller can chime in here.
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I was going into KDVT IFR about 15 years ago. Approach handed me off to the tower, and they got annoyed I didn't give them a full position report, what I wanted, etc etc on the call up.

They got pretty ****y about it... Not sure what their problem was but never had an issue since on an IFR flight plan...
 
TheGolfPilot said:
He got an ear full on the ground and told ABQ APP doesn't communicate with Double Eagle Tower. Nobody was written up, it was probably a mistake on all ends, but it did happen. Maybe an ABQ native can fill in on some local knowledge.
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I recently had similar horse-crap in ABQ at Double Eagle. Approach ASKED me to remain his frequency as I crossed into the Delta to vector me around another departure out of Double Eagle, and when he let me go, the Tower controller literally started up with "Do you KNOW what an airport traffic area is?!"

I told him Approach had kept me on his frequency to vector me around the departure (and I assume the tower was giving the departure an assigned heading also and thought HE was controlling his airspace instead of the Approach guy...).

The two of them were probably not on the same page and grumpy at each other, and took it out on me. LOL... I cared for a about two seconds about this seeming cluster**** between the two of them, realized nobody had swapped any paint and I'd had the opposite direction traffic in-sight and had told the approach guy I did from the time he came off the end of the runway, so whatever.

And then was cleared to land. :)

Crab-ass in the tower probably had a little phone line chat with the approach guy, hell if I know. Maybe those two never get along. :)

Total number of airplanes in the pattern at KAEG for the next hour and a half, including me? Four. One ultralight doing laps, me, the departure, and one touch-and-go that went back to ABQ.
 
roncachamp said:
Why is it unacceptable?
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Perhaps impolite is a better word than unacceptable. For FF, I've requested a service that they are nice enough to provide. The reason for what I perceive to be a delayed hand off is not likely to USUALLY be that I've been forgotten.
 
denverpilot said:
I recently had similar horse-crap in ABQ at Double Eagle. Approach ASKED me to remain his frequency as I crossed into the Delta to vector me around another departure out of Double Eagle, and when he let me go, the Tower controller literally started up with "Do you KNOW what an airport traffic area is?!
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Seems a bit dated.
 
rolivi said:
Perhaps impolite is a better word than unacceptable. For FF, I've requested a service that they are nice enough to provide. The reason for what I perceive to be a delayed hand off is not likely to USUALLY be that I've been forgotten.
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What other reason might there be?
 
roncachamp said:
Seems a bit dated.
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He sounded old... but voices can be deceiving. Definitely grumpy though, so we'll go with "I'm so ready to retire and not deal with this crap in this little podunk contract tower...!" :)

(Isn't KAEG contract? I don't remember...)
 
dans2992 said:
I was going into KDVT IFR about 15 years ago. Approach handed me off to the tower, and they got annoyed I didn't give them a full position report, what I wanted, etc etc on the call up.

They got pretty ****y about it... Not sure what their problem was but never had an issue since on an IFR flight plan...
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Welcome to Deer Valley! They always get pretty ****y about it.
They must be getting ready for the big leagues cause PHX app/dep is also a pain in the ass!

Got admonished for not including my identifier after a fairly lengthy back and forth. Wanted me to repeat everything with my tail number again just for fun.

I don't get the attitude. Why not find another job?


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