Amphib ownership

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Mtns2Skies

Final Approach
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Mtns2Skies
My wife and I are considering adding an amphib to our fleet. Our 180 doesn't have a float kit, and even if it did our hangar is too short for it. But 2 place amphibs would do the trick.

I am single and multi engine seaplane rated, but beyond the rating have no experience. What do I need to know about owning an amphib?

Maintenance considerations? Swapping to wheel gear from floats?

Insurance considerations?

Other ownership benefits and pains to a float/amphib equipped plane?
 
Mo' MONEY!
Don't get me wrong. I love airplanes that can play in the water. I started on floats and amphibs. It was the only game in town when I started as a teenager.
But everything costs more in both time and money.
 
I’d think some depends on where you live & how you plan to use the amphib. Seems more useful in AK or N MN, than say Texas. With an amphib you pay with insurance, then performance dragging floats around, but it would be cool.

I did get the SES rating years ago, but never progressed beyond that. The way to split the baby somewhat is to get more of a bush or STOL wheeled airplane. I’m mostly content with landing on a runway then making my way to the bush or lake some other way. Yes, there is a little cool factor.
 
Mtns2Skies said:
My wife and I are considering adding an amphib to our fleet. Our 180 doesn't have a float kit, and even if it did our hangar is too short for it. But 2 place amphibs would do the trick.

I am single and multi engine seaplane rated, but beyond the rating have no experience. What do I need to know about owning an amphib?

Maintenance considerations? Swapping to wheel gear from floats?

Insurance considerations?

Other ownership benefits and pains to a float/amphib equipped plane?
Click to expand...
By two place amphib assume something like a Super Cub or smaller (LSA or equivalent?) to have it short enough to fit under the hangar door. If so, first choice to make will be flying boat or floatplane. The former will be less tall - Seabee!

I went down this pathway a couple of years ago and decided that unless I had a house on a lake, probably wasn't worth the effort. But then, I get to fly a fixed float seaplane a couple times a summer to quench my thirst. However, I was looking only a fixed float, which is a whole another level of complexity in terms of getting them in and out of the water and storing them in the winter.

With no experience past the ratings, I would say you have no experience at all, just that you've shown an examiner that you can take off and land a seaplane. Water is like snow - no two landings alike, so tread slowly and softly as conditions change - wind, waves, current, etc., come into play each T/O and landing. But you know all that most likely.

All this is known by insurance, which will be punishing at first and painful thereafter. There are about 5000 seaplanes; risks are high and the pool is small. BWI might be a good place to start (they specialize in 180/185s but do other less common aircraft as well). Liability only might be a consideration.

Gear to floats done in a tall hangar with an overhead hoist. There are other ways, but this is the easiest. Expect about 5-6 hours to pull wheels and install floats, and then the same the other way around. However, if amphib may not need to change often if at all. Note times are for fixed floats, so increase a bit for the amphib plumbing.

Maintenance is about the same, but on the water it's a far reach for some aircraft - change a mag on a 185 on fixed floats one afternoon to have a good time. At least with an amphib not AOG you can fly it to land. Also much much easier to get fuel.

Where are you based? A sunset cruise around your favorite waters with a few landings makes it all worthwhile!
 
Steamflyer said:
By two place amphib assume something like a Super Cub or smaller (LSA or equivalent?) to have it short enough to fit under the hangar door. If so, first choice to make will be flying boat or floatplane. The former will be less tall - Seabee!
Click to expand...
We decided on a float plane, rather than a flying hull. Several reasons, including we likely would have a need for the wheeled version of the float plane. Also floats give more opportunities for fun when in the water.
Steamflyer said:
With no experience past the ratings, I would say you have no experience at all, just that you've shown an examiner that you can take off and land a seaplane. Water is like snow - no two landings alike, so tread slowly and softly as conditions change - wind, waves, current, etc., come into play each T/O and landing. But you know all that most likely.
Click to expand...
Agreed - just like tailwheel. Just because you have the endorsement doesn't mean you can jump in any taildragger and be set. It's a license to learn and I'm looking forward to that learning!
Steamflyer said:
All this is known by insurance, which will be punishing at first and painful thereafter. There are about 5000 seaplanes; risks are high and the pool is small. BWI might be a good place to start (they specialize in 180/185s but do other less common aircraft as well). Liability only might be a consideration.
Click to expand...
Yeah I just got a crash course in this. I use BWI for my Skywagon, and am still waiting on a quote from them. Avemco quoted me $23k for the first year of insurance :o. So time to keep saving up, but a float plane is definitely in the not so distant future.
Steamflyer said:
Gear to floats done in a tall hangar with an overhead hoist. There are other ways, but this is the easiest. Expect about 5-6 hours to pull wheels and install floats, and then the same the other way around. However, if amphib may not need to change often if at all. Note times are for fixed floats, so increase a bit for the amphib plumbing.

Maintenance is about the same, but on the water it's a far reach for some aircraft - change a mag on a 185 on fixed floats one afternoon to have a good time. At least with an amphib not AOG you can fly it to land. Also much much easier to get fuel.

Where are you based? A sunset cruise around your favorite waters with a few landings makes it all worthwhile!
Click to expand...
Based in SW Wisconsin, we like to brag that we have 13,000 lakes, to MN's 10,000 :). Thanks for the responses!
 
Mtns2Skies said:
We decided on a float plane, rather than a flying hull. Several reasons, including we likely would have a need for the wheeled version of the float plane. Also floats give more opportunities for fun when in the water.

Agreed - just like tailwheel. Just because you have the endorsement doesn't mean you can jump in any taildragger and be set. It's a license to learn and I'm looking forward to that learning!

Yeah I just got a crash course in this. I use BWI for my Skywagon, and am still waiting on a quote from them. Avemco quoted me $23k for the first year of insurance :o. So time to keep saving up, but a float plane is definitely in the not so distant future.

Based in SW Wisconsin, we like to brag that we have 13,000 lakes, to MN's 10,000 :). Thanks for the responses!
Click to expand...

Never had a float, but have had friends. Big thing is knowing who owns which body of water and their rules for it. Unlike "navigable" rivers and such, lakes are usually owned either privately, or by city, county, state, or fed, each with their own rules. We have a state owned lake nearby that is quite popular. The rule for this lake is seaplanes are allowed, but no "commercial" operations are permitted.

I believe there was a pilot in MN that was hauled into court for landing on a city owned lake, and the city had an ordinance prohibiting seaplane operations.
 
midwestpa24 said:
Never had a float, but have had friends. Big thing is knowing who owns which body of water and their rules for it. Unlike "navigable" rivers and such, lakes are usually owned either privately, or by city, county, state, or fed, each with their own rules. We have a state owned lake nearby that is quite popular. The rule for this lake is seaplanes are allowed, but no "commercial" operations are permitted.

I believe there was a pilot in MN that was hauled into court for landing on a city owned lake, and the city had an ordinance prohibiting seaplane operations.
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You may be thinking of Lake Calhoun in Minneapolis. I think the ticket was for operating a motor vehicle inside park boundaries.

In Wisconsin, lakes are owned by the state, and even if there is no public access, a resident may cross private property to get to the public water.
 
I was just looking where I can get my ases done to avoid a flight review...
 
Racerx said:
I was just looking where I can get my ases done to avoid a flight review...
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I recommend it! It was a blast. There are tons of places here in Central Florida, Jack Brown's, Jone's Bros (where I did mine) are a couple. But this time of year it's hot.
 
I did my SES up in Minnesota - it was a blast!
 
I think float flying is one of the most fun kinds of flying you can do. Especially living where there is lots of water and not a lot of roads. :) I am a co-owner of a Scout on floats in Alaska. Unfortunately, live in the lower 48 now and only get to fly it occasionally in the summer. If you have access to a nearby lake tiedown spot (as we do) straight floats are much lighter, cheaper, and less complex than amphibs. I have zero experience with amphibs but always thought they would be very useful for some missions; definitely easier to handle maintenance tasks and parking if you can just land on a runway.

I say, go for it. I don't have a lot of useful advice. I would say keep it out of salt water, but that shouldn't be an issue in Wisconsin. :)
 
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edo2000 said:
I am a co-owner of a Scout on floats in Alaska.
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We very nearly bought a Scout on amphibs at OSH but got scared away by the useful load of ~330lbs.

While floats are lighter... how do you handle the useful load? We absolutely loved the plane otherwise.
 
Mtns2Skies said:
My wife and I are considering adding an amphib to our fleet. Our 180 doesn't have a float kit, and even if it did our hangar is too short for it. But 2 place amphibs would do the trick.

I am single and multi engine seaplane rated, but beyond the rating have no experience. What do I need to know about owning an amphib?

Maintenance considerations? Swapping to wheel gear from floats?

Insurance considerations?

Other ownership benefits and pains to a float/amphib equipped plane?
Click to expand...
Bob took you for a flight in the Sea Rey, didn't he? :D

Insurance is the biggie, as you found... But I'd love to have something I could land on water.
Mtns2Skies said:
We decided on a float plane, rather than a flying hull. Several reasons, including we likely would have a need for the wheeled version of the float plane. Also floats give more opportunities for fun when in the water.
Click to expand...
How so? You mean it's more fun to fish while sitting on a float and dangling your feet in the water than in the plane?

gdwindowpane said:
I have the perfect solution, my Dad's 1945 Grumman G-44A Widgeon. I'll give you a heck of deal.
Click to expand...
Mtns2Skies said:
I am multi-engine sea rated...
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Do it! Do it! Do it!
 
Buy the Grumman. You can winter it with me in Central Florida so you don’t have to winterize it. I’ll keep it exercised…
 
As long as whatever bird you buy was a freshwater bird rather than a saltwater variant. I bet the corrosion issues on saltwater amphibs must be eye-watering!
 
Mtns2Skies said:
My wife and I are considering adding an amphib to our fleet. Our 180 doesn't have a float kit, and even if it did our hangar is too short for it. But 2 place amphibs would do the trick.

I am single and multi engine seaplane rated, but beyond the rating have no experience. What do I need to know about owning an amphib?

Maintenance considerations? Swapping to wheel gear from floats?

Insurance considerations?

Other ownership benefits and pains to a float/amphib equipped plane?
Click to expand...
Don’t get a deep sea divers certificate. Bad omen
 
midwestpa24 said:
I believe there was a pilot in MN that was hauled into court for landing on a city owned lake, and the city had an ordinance prohibiting seaplane operations.
Click to expand...
We have a thread somewhere on that incident. It was almost the opposite. The lake was public and listed in a state government list of lakes open to float plane operations. The city tried to close it for a golf tournament and arrested the pilot and his passenger, called them bad things in the news, needed their help to row back to shore, and then lost in court. They didn’t put up a TFR and the only lake closure the city could actually achieve was to prohibit the landowners around the shore from using their lake access. The landing ended up being perfectly legal.
 
iamtheari said:
We have a thread somewhere on that incident. It was almost the opposite. The lake was public and listed in a state government list of lakes open to float plane operations. The city tried to close it for a golf tournament and arrested the pilot and his passenger, called them bad things in the news, needed their help to row back to shore, and then lost in court. They didn’t put up a TFR and the only lake closure the city could actually achieve was to prohibit the landowners around the shore from using their lake access. The landing ended up being perfectly legal.
Click to expand...

I remember that case as well, but I think we are both thinking of two different incidents. Both go to show how seaplane operations can be complicated by the local response to an airplane showing up somewhere it isn't normally expected.

I have friends that have landed on our local lake, where it is legal but questionably smart. The problem they encounter is all the lookey loos that won't think anything of cutting in front of an aircraft taking off or landing. The lake is busy and bad enough for boaters with all the dumb and possibly drunk boat drivers already out there. I've all but given up on boating on summer weekends.
 
midwestpa24 said:
I remember that case as well, but I think we are both thinking of two different incidents. Both go to show how seaplane operations can be complicated by the local response to an airplane showing up somewhere it isn't normally expected.

I have friends that have landed on our local lake, where it is legal but questionably smart. The problem they encounter is all the lookey loos that won't think anything of cutting in front of an aircraft taking off or landing. The lake is busy and bad enough for boaters with all the dumb and possibly drunk boat drivers already out there. I've all but given up on boating on summer weekends.
Click to expand...
Unable to double-like. If I could, both paragraphs of your post would get a like. My favorite spectator sport is a busy boat ramp. I don’t particularly want to operate a plane anywhere those geniuses have access to. I dream of float flying, as long as there are no boat ramps on the same lake.
 
iamtheari said:
Unable to double-like. If I could, both paragraphs of your post would get a like. My favorite spectator sport is a busy boat ramp. I don’t particularly want to operate a plane anywhere those geniuses have access to. I dream of float flying, as long as there are no boat ramps on the same lake.
Click to expand...

That used to be one of my wife and I's favorite pastimes. We would get ice cream then go park by the downtown boat ramp to watch the action. Now its so busy you can't find a parking spot anymore.
 
iamtheari said:
Unable to double-like. If I could, both paragraphs of your post would get a like. My favorite spectator sport is a busy boat ramp. I don’t particularly want to operate a plane anywhere those geniuses have access to. I dream of float flying, as long as there are no boat ramps on the same lake.
Click to expand...
I had quite a long chat with the FAA examiner and the instructor during our taxi while the radials warmed up for my MES Checkride about boaters, beer, safety and general crazy behavior by boaters and especially jet skiers.
 
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