Ammunition... Best Source??

Flavius Renatus said:
In Illinois, no FOID card no Boom Boom.

Get him a gift certificate.

Flav
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gprellwitz said:
:yeahthat:
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UGH. Thanks for the information... I hadn't even considered that there might be drama associated with buying ammunition if the purchase didn't include a firearm too. Christmas shopping drama... no thanks! :rolleyes2: It's supposed to be fun! Hey... I think this may be a good excuse to go Christmas shopping in St. Louis... :D Christopher and the rest of the boys in my family went to a shooting range over the Thanksgiving weekend in Branson and had no trouble turning a whole lot of money into noise there. It would be fun to make a weekend out of it and I could sneak in purchases of other things on my list. Sneaky.
 
This would be a nice gift. It's ashame he's in Illinois. :mad:


Hornady-Zombie-Ammunition-Box.jpg
 
Sac Arrow said:
A .25? That would probably just **** someone off really bad for giving them a bad skin rash. A .380 with Glaser Safety Slugs is the minimum I'd consider carrying.
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I've never been able to get those that agree with you to help me prove or disprove that theory but taking a round or two....

It seems to me a well placed shot or two is more desirable that trying to conceal a hand cannon....
 
Anthony said:
This would be a nice gift. It's ashame he's in Illinois. :mad:


Hornady-Zombie-Ammunition-Box.jpg
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These are fun, but don't use them for self defense. You just know the "anti" people will find some way to convict you because of the name on your ammo. On the other hand, I believe these will become a collectors item in the future. I recommend buying some boxes.
 
Joe_KansasCity said:
I've never been able to get those that agree with you to help me prove or disprove that theory but taking a round or two....

It seems to me a well placed shot or two is more desirable that trying to conceal a hand cannon....
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Oh don't get me wrong, I wouldn't want to take one in the eye! But a chest shot isn't going to do any good at all. I'm not real sure a .25 could actually penetrate the skull in a forehead shot. I was trained to do a double tap to the head first, and a double tap to the chest second if you didn't have a clear head shot.
 
Sac Arrow said:
Oh don't get me wrong, I wouldn't want to take one in the eye! But a chest shot isn't going to do any good at all. I'm not real sure a .25 could actually penetrate the skull in a forehead shot. I was trained to do a double tap to the head first, and a double tap to the chest second if you didn't have a clear head shot.
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I as a civilian, thought it was two to the chest one to the head?
 
Sac Arrow said:
I was trained to do a double tap to the head first, and a double tap to the chest second if you didn't have a clear head shot.
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Trained using what and for what?

In all of my active duty gun qualifications we have always trained for center of mass - head shots look good on TV and movies, but the odds of success are against the average sailor carrying a weapon.
 
Fearless Tower said:
Trained using what and for what?

In all of my active duty gun qualifications we have always trained for center of mass - head shots look good on TV and movies, but the odds of success are against the average sailor carrying a weapon.
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That's how we train. Center mass to the largest part of the body, which is usually torso then the head. But our qual course does have multiple stages where 2 to the chest and 1 to the head is part of a stage. The head shot should be used if the other shots don't stop the threat, or if that is the only part of the body showing.
 
flygirl34q said:
UGH. Thanks for the information... I hadn't even considered that there might be drama associated with buying ammunition if the purchase didn't include a firearm too. Christmas shopping drama... no thanks! :rolleyes2: It's supposed to be fun! Hey... I think this may be a good excuse to go Christmas shopping in St. Louis... :D Christopher and the rest of the boys in my family went to a shooting range over the Thanksgiving weekend in Branson and had no trouble turning a whole lot of money into noise there. It would be fun to make a weekend out of it and I could sneak in purchases of other things on my list. Sneaky.
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Errr, no. My understanding is that surrounding states will check your ID and, if you're from IL, demand to see your FOID. Too easy a loophole otherwise.
 
gprellwitz said:
Errr, no. My understanding is that surrounding states will check your ID and, if you're from IL, demand to see your FOID. Too easy a loophole otherwise.
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I have never ever been asked for an ID while purchasing ammo in the great state of Nebraska.
 
gprellwitz said:
Errr, no. My understanding is that surrounding states will check your ID and, if you're from IL, demand to see your FOID. Too easy a loophole otherwise.
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No ID required for ammo purchase in the "free" states. Dunno 'bout them folks back east...
 
Clark1961 said:
No ID required for ammo purchase in the "free" states. Dunno 'bout them folks back east...
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The only case I can think of is that if you didn't look of age. In that case you might get carded but there is no way in hell anyone in Nebraska is going to care if you have an Illinois ID or not.
 
Joe_KansasCity said:
I've never been able to get those that agree with you to help me prove or disprove that theory but taking a round or two....

It seems to me a well placed shot or two is more desirable that trying to conceal a hand cannon....
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Joe: I did a pretty thorough study if that for the US Infantry School back when on active duty. FBI did a thorough job when the .40 cal was developed. Not much to it really. If someone gets adrenalin going, or is drugged up, one needs something to put them down. Even if hitting in a vital organ, they can advance or attack until blood loss slows them down. Hitting a bone could help with the smaller weapon. Read about the Army in the Philippines during the Moro rebellion; it's why the .45 was developed. For one not to be convinced means they don't know the history. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.45_ACP

Anecdotally, I had a good friend in the Army that was in a shoot out in a grocery store as a detective. He shot through the end of an aisle with a 9mm only to have the bad guy return fire several times until he bled out. Had another fella shot nine times in the back with a 9mm as he drove down a road in a jeep. He's still around. I've shot folks that were keyed up and had them run. Deer also. Just a matter of circumstances and what you want. Not much stopping power in a smaller caliber weapon, but they certainly can kill. I'd rather have something that had a strong impact.

There are folks that have been shot with smaller caliber weapons that didn't even know they had been shot when emergency folks arrived. I think the .40 is a good tradeoff. In a home the noise from any weapon may be enough to scare someone that's not a determined aggressor off.

In the infantry, one didn't want to be to the point where they were relying on a side arm that would only **** off a determined attacker.

Best,

Dave
 
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I am on the east, and never asked for ID when purchasing ammo.
 
sdpilot said:
I didn't read the entire post but some walmart's sell ammunition as cheap if not cheaper than the online places and you don't pay any shipping
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Not wanting to turn this into a spin zone issue, but yes.. walmart has some of the cheapest prices I've found for ammo. Walmart also pays their associates so little that 40% are on govt assistance and many do not have health insurance because they intentionally keep their hours in the part time range. This is a business decision they have chosen to make, to give you those uber low prices.

I'm not calling for a boycott, or attacking them for being successful as a business, just pointing out that actions have consequences. If someone's price is significantly lower than the competition, that difference is made up somewhere.

I would rather go to one of the gun shows we have here every two to four weeks and buy from the little guy.... barring that, we have a few local chains that are reasonably priced.
 
Dave Siciliano said:
Joe: I did a pretty thorough study if that for the US Infantry School back when on active duty. FBI did a thorough job when the .40 cal was developed. Not much to it really. If someone gets adrenalin going, or is drugged up, one needs something to put them down. Even if hitting in a vital organ, they can advance or attack until blood loss slows them down. Hitting a bone could help with the smaller weapon. Read about the Army in the Philippines during the Moro rebellion; it's why the .45 was developed. For one not to be convinced means they don't know the history. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.45_ACP

Anecdotally, I had a good friend in the Army that was in a shoot out in a grocery store as a detective. He shot through the end of an aisle with a 9mm only to have the bad guy return fire several times until he bled out. Had another fella shot nine times in the back with a 9mm as he drove down a road in a jeep. He's still around. I've shot folks that were keyed up and had them run. Deer also. Just a matter of circumstances and what you want. Not much stopping power in a smaller caliber weapon, but they certainly can kill. I'd rather have something that had a strong impact.

There are folks that have been shot with smaller caliber weapons that didn't even know they had been shot when emergency folks arrived. I think the .40 is a good tradeoff. In a home the noise from any weapon may be enough to scare someone that's not a determined aggressor off.

In the infantry, one didn't want to be to the point where they were relying on a side arm that would only **** off a determined attacker.

Best,

Dave
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Dave

Thank you for the thoughtful reply. I agree with the premise that caliber and bullet design are both important factors in stopping power. My only point is carrying and trying to conceal a hand cannon that one can't quickly and accurately put on target is the other extreme. If you can't hit the target, you can't stop the target. - Joe
 
Doggtyred said:
Not wanting to turn this into a spin zone issue, but yes.. walmart has some of the cheapest prices I've found for ammo. Walmart also pays their associates so little that 40% are on govt assistance and many do not have health insurance because they intentionally keep their hours in the part time range. This is a business decision they have chosen to make, to give you those uber low prices.
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Is that their secret to low prices???

I have long thought it was because they sold alot of cheap Chinese made crap.
 
Doggtyred said:
Not wanting to turn this into a spin zone issue, but yes.. walmart has some of the cheapest prices I've found for ammo. Walmart also pays their associates so little that 40% are on govt assistance and many do not have health insurance because they intentionally keep their hours in the part time range. This is a business decision they have chosen to make, to give you those uber low prices.

I'm not calling for a boycott, or attacking them for being successful as a business, just pointing out that actions have consequences. If someone's price is significantly lower than the competition, that difference is made up somewhere.

I would rather go to one of the gun shows we have here every two to four weeks and buy from the little guy.... barring that, we have a few local chains that are reasonably priced.
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People need to stop thinking that having a job that's only worth minimum wage or a few dollars over is a way to support themselves. Wal-Mart buys such a large amount of goods that they get huge discounts that smaller stores can't complete with. That's the real reason the prices are so cheap. And they buy the cheaper products. The ammo may be good for target shooting, but I wouldn't want to use it for self defense or hunting.
 
JB1842 said:
People need to stop thinking that having a job that's only worth minimum wage or a few dollars over is a way to support themselves. Wal-Mart buys such a large amount of goods that they get huge discounts that smaller stores can't complete with. That's the real reason the prices are so cheap. And they buy the cheaper products. The ammo may be good for target shooting, but I wouldn't want to use it for self defense or hunting.
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Well I seriously doubt they're getting a lower quality grade of the ammo sporting a major manufacturer.

That said, locally, I can buy it from Scheels for close enough to the same price.
 
Joe_KansasCity said:
Dave

Thank you for the thoughtful reply. I agree with the premise that caliber and bullet design are both important factors in stopping power. My only point is carrying and trying to conceal a hand cannon that one can't quickly and accurately put on target is the other extreme. If you can't hit the target, you can't stop the target. - Joe
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We're in complete agreement. It was one of the factors the military cited when it went to the 9mm, but there was much more to that decision. If you can't hit anything with it, you have to evaluate on noise making ability (g).
Training can help, but some folks will never adjust to a larger caliber weapon.

Best,

Dave
 
jesse said:
Well I seriously doubt they're getting a lower quality grade of the ammo sporting a major manufacturer.

That said, locally, I can buy it from Scheels for close enough to the same price.[/QUOUT]

Some of it is lower quality. The 100 pack of Winchester shot shells for clay targets are a lower quality than comparable brands. And the powder used to make some of the cheaper ammo is a lower quality.
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gprellwitz said:
Errr, no. My understanding is that surrounding states will check your ID and, if you're from IL, demand to see your FOID. Too easy a loophole otherwise.
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Maybe I'll just buy him a pool cue holder and set of pool cues. That was the other item on his list. :rolleyes2:
 
Fearless Tower said:
Trained using what and for what?

In all of my active duty gun qualifications we have always trained for center of mass - head shots look good on TV and movies, but the odds of success are against the average sailor carrying a weapon.
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To answer your question, various Army schools and courses but of relevance to pistol combat, Ranger School, urban warfare training, counterterrorist/hostage retrieval training and Delta qual prep training using a variety of assault rifles, submachine guns and handguns (most commonly M16A1's, MP5's and M1911's, respectively.) In a lot of counterterrorist and hostage scenarios, the bad guys might possibly wear body armor but probably not helmets.

If I was faced with an armed intruder today, would I make head shots? Probably not, you can probably tell all that training has been a long time ago.
 
Dave Siciliano said:
We're in complete agreement. It was one of the factors the military cited when it went to the 9mm, but there was much more to that decision. If you can't hit anything with it, you have to evaluate on noise making ability (g).
Training can help, but some folks will never adjust to a larger caliber weapon.

Best,

Dave
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The biggest decision involved in the military going to the 9mm was compatibility with NATO. Unfortunately, 9mm ball ammo in ball form isn't as effective as a larger caliber round, in ball form. One of the reasons the military developed the .45 ACP caliber round in the first place is because they found the .38 long round was ineffective against the drugged up Morros during the Phillipine war and they needed something with more stopping power and that could be reloaded quicker.

Personally I think a better answer than going back to a larger caliber handgun round is to use hollow points or other form of expanding bullet. Why we still adhere to the policy of complying with Geneva Convention standards I don't understand.
 
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jesse said:
I have never ever been asked for an ID while purchasing ammo in the great state of Nebraska.
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Nebraska isn't really a "surrounding" state, but Missouri is. And it's quite possible that they won't ask for ID, but she'd be in violation were she to take the ammo back into IL, because mere possession in IL without the FOID is illegal.

License to Purchase/Possess Ammunition
Illinois requires residents to obtain a Firearm Owner’s Identification (“FOID”) card before they can lawfully purchase or possess ammunition.1 No person may transfer firearm ammunition in Illinois unless the transferee displays a currently valid FOID card.2
For detailed information on the requirements for a FOID card, see Licensing of Gun Owners & Purchasers in Illinois section.
Any resident purchasing ammunition outside the state must provide the seller with a copy of his or her valid FOID card and either his or her Illinois driver’s license or Illinois State Identification card prior to the shipment of the ammunition. The ammunition may be shipped only to an address on either of those two documents.3
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gprellwitz said:
Nebraska isn't really a "surrounding" state, but Missouri is. And it's quite possible that they won't ask for ID, but she'd be in violation were she to take the ammo back into IL, because mere possession in IL without the FOID is illegal.
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I seriously doubt anyone in Missouri would give a crap - why would Illinois state laws apply to whom they sell ammo to? Perhaps some large chain with some silly corporate rule might but there is no way a small firearms dealer would care.

As to her possessing ammo in Illinois well that's another subject.

One would think all these anti-firearm laws in Illinois would fix all the gun crime problems there. I just don't understand :dunno:
 
Tell you what Lynn -- just fly out to Nebraska and we can buy all the ammo you need. I can also make sure you get the right stuff. As to if you decide to take it back to Illinois or not that's up to you :)
 
jesse said:
I seriously doubt anyone in Missouri would give a crap - why would Illinois state laws apply to whom they sell ammo to? Perhaps some large chain with some silly corporate rule might but there is no way a small firearms dealer would care.

As to her possessing ammo in Illinois well that's another subject.

One would think all these anti-firearm laws in Illinois would fix all the gun crime problems there. I just don't understand :dunno:
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Having grown up in Missouri with a bunch of friends still there, since I haven't heard any of them bitching, I'd assume that MO still doesn't care either.
 
jesse said:
I seriously doubt anyone in Missouri would give a crap - why would Illinois state laws apply to whom they sell ammo to?
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Some states are kind of funny about gun (& perhaps ammo) laws. It's like the Attorney General (or someone) goes to their counterpart in the neighboring state and whispers in their ear something about "helping each other out" and "for the good of the children" and suddenly the neighboring states are passing strange laws about honoring certain concepts in the neighboring state's laws.

Colorado is a little funny about gun purchases in neighboring states. Long gun purchases are fine for Coloradans in neighboring states but handguns are verbotten (must go through a Colorado FFL). Neighboring states honor the Colorado law through the insta-check system. Dunno how ammo purchases would be regulated other than passing a law that sez ID must be checked and that would get us into the "papers please" world and concerns with intended use and jurisdiction.
 
Clark1961 said:
Some states are kind of funny about gun (& perhaps ammo) laws. It's like the Attorney General (or someone) goes to their counterpart in the neighboring state and whispers in their ear something about "helping each other out" and "for the good of the children" and suddenly the neighboring states are passing strange laws about honoring certain concepts in the neighboring state's laws.

Colorado is a little funny about gun purchases in neighboring states. Long gun purchases are fine for Coloradans in neighboring states but handguns are verbotten (must go through a Colorado FFL). Neighboring states honor the Colorado law through the insta-check system. Dunno how ammo purchases would be regulated other than passing a law that sez ID must be checked and that would get us into the "papers please" world and concerns with intended use and jurisdiction.
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Understand - it's very common for a state to only sell handguns to local residents. But I've certainly never heard of a state where one can buy ammo legally refusing to sell it to a citizen of another specific state while permitting from the citizens of other states. That'd make no sense.

I have no doubts I can buy ammo in Missouri. As a result Lynn can as well.
 
jesse said:
I have no doubts I can buy ammo in Missouri. As a result Lynn can as well.
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Agree and as you noted previously, don't go to the big chain stores.

I have been asked for ID in Walmart in Colorado and basically told the sales clerk that I wasn't about to show an ID to purchase ammo. There were no further questions and I walked out with my intended items.
 
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