American Rifleman, July 2013

[airdale]

Pages 92 and 92. Novel concept:

"The NRA Board of Directors ... elected by mail ballot by the membership."

"A ballot will be mailed to all members ..."

These words included in a two-page spread giving detailed instructions how to suggest board members by making a recommendation to the nominating committee or by nominating directly via member petition.

I wonder of any AOPA insiders get the Rifleman. ... or get the concept.

 

[Old Geek]

The NRA is a grassroots special interest group. The AOPA is an insurance broker cloaked as a special interest group.

 

[Papa Foxtrot]

The NRA is a grassroots special interest group. The AOPA is an insurance broker cloaked as a special interest group.

If it were not for the "Revolt at Cincinnati", NRA might look a lot more like AOPA these days. AOPA brass currently appears to have no vested interest in actually solving the problems they're supposedly there to address...

 

[JoseCuervo]

The NRA is a grassroots special interest group. The AOPA is an insurance broker cloaked as a special interest group.

Please don't mistake the NRA for a "grassroots special interest group". It is a corporate funded entity by the gun manufacturers masquerading as a grassroots group.

This NRA ain't your father's NRA.

There are usually up to 30 candidates on the ballot to elect 25 directors, or nearly one-third of NRA directors, to serve a three-year term. (One director, the 76th board member, is elected annually from the NRA’s convention floor to serve for one year.)

Although a few candidates often make the ballot through a grassroots petition, the rest are placed there by the Nominating Committee and almost all of their choices win. It “is a sad testimony to how seriously flawed the NRA election process is” noted gun rights blogger Jeff Knox, “and the NRA’s unwillingness” to change it.

Who is on the 9 member nominating committee?

George Kollitides II, CEO of the country's largest gun manufacturer, the Freedom Group, sits on one of the organization's most influential internal leadership bodies, known as the Nominating Committee. Freedom Group is the parent company of such firearms makers as Bushmaster, producer of the wildly popular rifle used in the Newtown massacre, and Remington, one of the oldest names in the arms business. And so it seems the gun industry doesn't merely influence the NRA via its largesse, but that one of its most high-profile executives actually helps steer it from the inside.

The NRA will not allow all their members to even vote.

Every year, voting members of the National Rifle Association (those with 5 or more years of consecutive membership and those with Life or higher-level memberships) are asked to participate in the governance of their organization by voting for a third of their 76-member board of directors.

NRA is a lot of things, but grassroots it ain't, and role model for AOPA it ain't.

 

[Old Geek]

Please don't mistake the NRA for a "grassroots special interest group". It is a corporate funded entity by the gun manufacturers masquerading as a grassroots group.

This NRA ain't your father's NRA.



Who is on the 9 member nominating committee?



The NRA will not allow all their members to even vote.



NRA is a lot of things, but grassroots it ain't, and role model for AOPA it ain't.

You know more than I do. Tell me what percentage of NRA's income is from gun manufacturers.

 

[Skylane81E]

The simple fact the Washington types fear the NRA is reason enough for me to wish we had an aviation organization with similar pull.

 

[JoseCuervo]

You know more than I do. Tell me what percentage of NRA's income is from gun manufacturers.

Don't really care, but if you want to hijack the thread from the OP, you are more than welcome to take it where you want.

The original OP was about nominating and electing directors at the NRA (vs. AOPA) but did not tell the whole story about how the NRA's board is shielded from their members and only the nominating committee (controlled by industry insiders) could ever influence the direction of the board.

The fact they won't even allow all their members to vote for directors should be enough to know they are shady.

But, deflect as you must.

 

[Old Geek]

Don't really care, but if you want to hijack the thread from the OP, you are more than welcome to take it where you want.

The original OP was about nominating and electing directors at the NRA (vs. AOPA) but did not tell the whole story about how the NRA's board is shielded from their members and only the nominating committee (controlled by industry insiders) could ever influence the direction of the board.

The fact they won't even allow all their members to vote for directors should be enough to know they are shady.

But, deflect as you must.

I'm not trying to derail the thread, just trying to get some simple clarification on a statement you made.

 

[wanttaja]

The NRA will not allow all their members to even vote.

...voting members of the National Rifle Association (those with 5 or more years of consecutive membership and those with Life or higher-level memberships)...

Haven't been a member for ~40 years, but I can understand why they'd do this. It's a reasonable precaution, I think, for a politically controversial group. Otherwise, some hostile entity could buy a big stack of memberships and vote things their way. This way, it costs them five times as much, and the effort could be discovered in time to do something about it.


Ron Wanttaja

 

[airdale]

My intent was not to put forth the NRA as a model organization, just to contrast their governance with that of AOPA.

<OT>

It is a corporate funded entity by the gun manufacturers masquerading as a grassroots group.

As Daniel Patrick Moynihan said, you are entitled to your own opinion but not to your own facts. Check the tax returns. Of $220M of 2011 income, the vast majority is dues, fees, merchandise sales, licensing fees for the NRA name, etc. It is only about 20+% in "contributions, gifts, grants, ..." where corporate support could be booked. The anti-gunner stuff you've been reading includes breathless statements like: "Since 2005, the gun industry and its corporate allies have given between $20 million and $52.6 million ..." and "The Violence Policy Center has estimated that since 2005, gun manufacturers have contributed up to $38.9M to the NRA." Whoop-de-do! $4 to $9M per year in a $200M annual budget. Of course manufacturers are going to support NRA, but that hardly makes it a mouthpiece for them.

Re not allowing all members to vote, my speculation is that some time in the past they were worried about anti-NRA people joining solely to influence an election. That's not unreasonable IMHO given the political context. Obviously that precaution would be unnecessary for AOPA.

Who is on the 9 member nominating committee?

Directors elected by the members.

Re your quotation mentioning election of 1/3 of the BoD that's because of rotating terms. 1/3 is elected every year and terms are 3 years.

I don't claim that NRA is a poster child for organizational governance either. A huge board (75 members) is completely unwieldy, which certainly helps insiders to maintain some control by controlling agendas, influencing subcommittees, etc.

</OT>

But hey, the bottom line is that NRA members are encouraged nominate NRA directors and to vote in NRA elections. AOPA members aren't similarly encouraged.

 

[JoseCuervo]

My intent was not to put forth the NRA as a model organization, just to contrast their governance with that of AOPA.

<OT>

As Daniel Patrick Moynihan said, you are entitled to your own opinion but not to your own facts. Check the tax returns. Of $220M of 2011 income, the vast majority is dues, fees, merchandise sales, licensing fees for the NRA name, etc. It is only about 20+% in "contributions, gifts, grants, ..." where corporate support could be booked. The anti-gunner stuff you've been reading includes breathless statements like: "Since 2005, the gun industry and its corporate allies have given between $20 million and $52.6 million ..." and "The Violence Policy Center has estimated that since 2005, gun manufacturers have contributed up to $38.9M to the NRA." Whoop-de-do! $4 to $9M per year in a $200M annual budget. Of course manufacturers are going to support NRA, but that hardly makes it a mouthpiece for them.

Re not allowing all members to vote, my speculation is that some time in the past they were worried about anti-NRA people joining solely to influence an election. That's not unreasonable IMHO given the political context. Obviously that precaution would be unnecessary for AOPA.

Directors elected by the members.

Re your quotation mentioning election of 1/3 of the BoD that's because of rotating terms. 1/3 is elected every year and terms are 3 years.

I don't claim that NRA is a poster child for organizational governance either. A huge board (75 members) is completely unwieldy, which certainly helps insiders to maintain some control by controlling agendas, influencing subcommittees, etc.

</OT>

But hey, the bottom line is that NRA members are encouraged nominate NRA directors and to vote in NRA elections. AOPA members aren't similarly encouraged.

I wouldn't hold the NRA up to be a role model for financial reasons either....

 

[airdale]

I wouldn't hold the NRA up to be a role model for financial reasons either....

Oh I don't know.

The reserve (member dollars) that NRA is holding is only about 40% of the dollars AOPA is holding despite the fact that NRA is over six times AOPA's size. Said another way, NRA feels that 14 weeks of member dues is an adequate reserve. AOPA's figure is 225 weeks.

Fuller's 2011 compensation was 88% of the NRA CEO's compensation, for running an organization one-sixth the size.

And, AFIK, NRA does not have a jet.

But finances are another thread.

 

[Bob Noel]

Just remember, NRA is bad bad bad. Always bad.

facts be da**ed.

 

[Papa Foxtrot]

I've heard that NRA's largest "corporate" donor is Midway USA - a mail order outfit. The source of their contribution? A "round up" option on their online shopping cart. Yep - that huge corporate donation comes from individuals donating 50-75 cents at a time rounding their order up to the next dollar.

But it's not "grass roots"....

 

[Papa Foxtrot]

The simple fact the Washington types fear the NRA is reason enough for me to wish we had an aviation organization with similar pull.

This!

I'll never really get over losing Meigs. AOPA "did all they could" and it wasn't nearly enough.

 

[JoseCuervo]

Oh I don't know.

The reserve (member dollars) that NRA is holding is only about 40% of the dollars AOPA is holding despite the fact that NRA is over six times AOPA's size. Said another way, NRA feels that 14 weeks of member dues is an adequate reserve. AOPA's figure is 225 weeks.

Fuller's 2011 compensation was 88% of the NRA CEO's compensation, for running an organization one-sixth the size.

And, AFIK, NRA does not have a jet.

But finances are another thread.

AOPA uses a general aviation aircraft and they are mis-managed financially.

NRA builds a palace for their staff, and they are fiscally prudent. Got it.

I've heard that NRA's largest "corporate" donor is Midway USA - a mail order outfit. The source of their contribution? A "round up" option on their online shopping cart. Yep - that huge corporate donation comes from individuals donating 50-75 cents at a time rounding their order up to the next dollar.

But it's not "grass roots"....

Grassroots has their board of directors nominated by a 9 member committee? Can you even name the members of the nominating commttee? Grassroots doesn't allow all of their rank and file members, you know, the "grass roots" to vote?

We might have different definitions of "grassroots"....

 

[airdale]

NRA builds a palace for their staff ...

Facts, JoseCuervo, you need facts.

AOPA's building is about 50K sf and NRA's is about 300,000 sf. That's almost exactly the revenue ratio between the two organizations. NRA's land area is only about half of AOPA's. This info from tax records because you pique my curiosity with your wild assertions.

Have you toured both buildings? What is your basis for calling one a "palace?" I think your answers are "no" and "none." Given the behavior of well-funded nonprofits, my guess is that both buildings are very nice. Unnecessarily nice.

The jet discussion is old ground, plowed many times.

We might have different definitions of "grassroots"....

That's your word, not mine. I have not used it. But the fact is that NRA members can be nominated to the board by recommendation to and acceptance by the nominating committee or by member petition. The BoD nominating committee that you are so spun up about is not the only mechanism. Nominees by petition go directly onto the ballot. Again you are waving your arms while overlooking facts.

Your sputtering and fuming might be better directed at:

• A current AOPA presidential selection and coronation process that is completely opaque to members.
• Bylaws that give board members endless terms of office.
• An organization that gave Phil Boyer $774K of W-2/1099 compensation in 2011 despite the fact that he "retired" at the end of 2008.

 

[N801BH]

.....
The jet discussion is old ground, plowed many times.

.....

But....... That ground is VERY fertile....

 

[JoseCuervo]

Facts, JoseCuervo, you need facts.

AOPA's building is about 50K sf and NRA's is about 300,000 sf. That's almost exactly the revenue ratio between the two organizations. NRA's land area is only about half of AOPA's. This info from tax records because you pique my curiosity with your wild assertions.

Have you toured both buildings? What is your basis for calling one a "palace?" I think your answers are "no" and "none." Given the behavior of well-funded nonprofits, my guess is that both buildings are very nice. Unnecessarily nice.

The jet discussion is old ground, plowed many times.

That's your word, not mine. I have not used it. But the fact is that NRA members can be nominated to the board by recommendation to and acceptance by the nominating committee or by member petition. The BoD nominating committee that you are so spun up about is not the only mechanism. Nominees by petition go directly onto the ballot. Again you are waving your arms while overlooking facts.

Your sputtering and fuming might be better directed at:

• A current AOPA presidential selection and coronation process that is completely opaque to members.
• Bylaws that give board members endless terms of office.
• An organization that gave Phil Boyer $774K of W-2/1099 compensation in 2011 despite the fact that he "retired" at the end of 2008.

Are general aviation aircraft useful tools for large organizations or are they symbols of excess?

Can you point to ANY commentary of mine extolling any positives or virtues of AOPA?


Again, the NRA nominating and voting process is not "grassroots", and to call for it to be an example for other organizations is naive, at best.

 

[nddons]

Haven't been a member for ~40 years, but I can understand why they'd do this. It's a reasonable precaution, I think, for a politically controversial group. Otherwise, some hostile entity could buy a big stack of memberships and vote things their way. This way, it costs them five times as much, and the effort could be discovered in time to do something about it.


Ron Wanttaja

Exactly. I've been a member for about 25 years, and am now a life member. Twice when my wife took her time to pay my dues, I lost that 5-year period, and had to start over. But since I'm not dense and understand the rules, I respected that.

 

[nddons]

Please don't mistake the NRA for a "grassroots special interest group". It is a corporate funded entity by the gun manufacturers masquerading as a grassroots group.

This NRA ain't your father's NRA.



Who is on the 9 member nominating committee?



The NRA will not allow all their members to even vote.



NRA is a lot of things, but grassroots it ain't, and role model for AOPA it ain't.

If you're going to steal from the hit piece from Mother Jones, you should provide a citation to their content.

 

[nddons]

I've heard that NRA's largest "corporate" donor is Midway USA - a mail order outfit. The source of their contribution? A "round up" option on their online shopping cart. Yep - that huge corporate donation comes from individuals donating 50-75 cents at a time rounding their order up to the next dollar.

But it's not "grass roots"....

Absolutely. Midway USA is a great company that hasn't jacked their prices despite severe shortages of shooting supplies. And yes, every time I buy magazines from them, I happily round up.

 

[nddons]

AOPA uses a general aviation aircraft and they are mis-managed financially.

NRA builds a palace for their staff, and they are fiscally prudent. Got it.







Grassroots has their board of directors nominated by a 9 member committee? Can you even name the members of the nominating commttee? Grassroots doesn't allow all of their rank and file members, you know, the "grass roots" to vote?

We might have different definitions of "grassroots"....

Boy, you have quite the hard-on for the NRA, Jose. Unfortunately, you have no facts. I'd suggest you stop parroting Mother Jones and the Educational Fund to Stop Gun Violence, which publishes the fraudulent www.meetthenra.org, and do some research of your own.

Did you know that the NRA headquarters houses the National Firearms Museum, with 15 galleries? Did you know that it houses a world class shooting range, also open to the public? I didn't think so.

 

[denverpilot]

AFAIK, NRA allows all members to vote after they've maintained their membership for five years, or... Immediately if they're Life Members.

Recent deals on Life Memberships were as low as $300 and that deal typically has been available with a reference by an existing Life Member for years and years. There's a web page for it, and I have seen numerous Life Members with open offers to sign anyone up.

(Try getting that deal from AOPA...)

Not heavily advertised, but all it takes is a Google search, and details appear on your monitor. Magic.

The nominating committee may be the only people who can nominate Board members, but that won't get them elected nor keep them on the Board if the membership doesn't want them there.

It may not be a perfect system, but it's a lot more engaging than an automatic proxy for Yodice.

The Midway USA rounding up donation thing is correct, and I've also participated in it.

Suggest you vet your sources better. There was a significant push to oust a couple of Board members on various online forums this last election. I believe they're both history.

I haven't seen any PoA threads on who we should vote off the AOPA or EAA Boards.