Amateur high altitude balloons

dans2992

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Ok, so apparently, it’s perfectly legal to launch a weather balloon carrying a payload under 12 lbs to 100,000 ft and recover it with a parachute without any FAA coordination or notification.

Would it also be legal to attach a glider with GPS-based autopilot and recover the payload via that method?

Given all that, I wonder why we cannot fly a 2 lb drone out of line of sight?
 
All the responsible launchers notify FAA.

One group here locally is pushing 200 launches over many decades, not including funded flights by colleges and other groups that they act as expertise for.

They built prediction software that rivals anything I’ve seen anywhere for high altitude winds aloft. The payload not ending up within a mile of where they predict is so rare now, it’s almost unheard of.

That software plus changes to their tracking systems took away all the fun of radio direction finding their payloads we used to do. It was always a race to see who could DF the payload first.

We used to launch an airplane to do it in the 90s for the really expensive payloads so they wouldn’t go lost forever.

Besides the light payloads they’ve been working with Denver Center and the FAA for so long that I believe they have a permanent waiver for heavier payloads.

www.eoss.org

But yes, the stupid commercials on TV (ironically from an insurance company) showing any idiot strapping their phone to a balloon and sending it to the stratosphere, did popularize the stupid way to do it.
 
There are tons of weather balloon launches every 12 hours or so by weather forecasters, correct? Are those taken into account by the FAA, or is it just “big sky theory”?

After the balloons burst and the payload is parachuting back down, it would be hard to track these I’d imagine because you don’t really know for sure where they’ll be.
 
Local NWS office is on short final to Rwy1 ILS. I believe they call the tower prior to launch. Time the launch between arrivals. That balloon rises very fast. One time the tower called the NWS, their balloon, after popping had landed the “package” back on the runway, not more than 3 miles from the launch point.

Big Sky Theory
 
There are tons of weather balloon launches every 12 hours or so by weather forecasters, correct? Are those taken into account by the FAA, or is it just “big sky theory”?

After the balloons burst and the payload is parachuting back down, it would be hard to track these I’d imagine because you don’t really know for sure where they’ll be.

Data to include gps position is transmitted back to the launch site. But during free fall, reception gets lost beyound a distance and the effect of “over the horizon”.
 
One group here locally is pushing 200 launches over many decades, not including funded flights by colleges and other groups that they act as expertise for.

What kind of payloads are they typically launching? Is it typically just a "see where the balloon goes" or do they sometimes include high altitude experiments or the like?
 
I'm a high school teacher, and we had a Maker group launch a balloon with a GoPro a couple years ago. I don't know much about what notifications they sent out, but they were expecting winds from the west but it ended up going the opposite direction and crash landed on a military base. I asked them if they had checked the high altitude winds and they were like ummmmm what's that?

The base commander came to our school, read them the riot act, and returned the debris.
 
What kind of payloads are they typically launching? Is it typically just a "see where the balloon goes" or do they sometimes include high altitude experiments or the like?

They have a recap of the payload string on the website for each launch.

Older launches way back in the day often included stuff like amateur radio cross-band and in-band repeaters (the duplexer was VERY small for the in-band and the transmitter very low powered, but you don’t need much TX power from that high up!) and various experiments on how to build trackers, DF beacons, etc.

Many early flights had a lot of electronics freeze at altitude and stop working for a while. Sometimes recovering in the descent, sometimes not. They had a lot of things to work out back then in terms of electronics health in the cold, “cut down” commanding to force the balloon to pop or the string to disconnect if needed, even color video downlinks were pretty difficult back then.

Just looking over the website, the last launch appears to have had ten college student’s payloads aboard which are usually scientific experiments the students compete to get aboard. Metro State’s “Space Demo Sats” and CU Gateway to State payloads. Ten of them.

They usually don’t publish the student’s payloads on those flights since that’s up to the college whether or not they feel like doing that and EOSS are just the tech support for flying the payloads. Most are something related to the student’s learning curve for eventually going to work in spaceflight engineering. Or at least earning their degrees in such, anyway.

19.3 lbs and a 12’ parachute for the trip down. Beefy! :)

They also are required to bounce the payload weight down into the “exempt” category when cloud cover is present at certain altitudes, ostensibly for protection of IFR/IMC traffic. I believe that’s a requirement of their standing waiver but not sure.

They pre-plan that ahead of time and will split payload strings and launch more balloons, or they’ll take things off the strings altogether, depending on the contingency plan they’ve worked on prior to launch day. They try not to disappoint the students these days.

Back when I was helping out long long ago, as a DF team chaser, the strings and balloons were a LOT smaller. Many of the original team members from back then have had enough time to retire and move to other states. :) A number of them started more launch groups doing volunteer collegiate work similar to EOSS.

The Arizona group was somehow involved in that balloon that flew all the way around the planet multiple times a few years back and they’re pretty active down there with other launches also, I hear. I never quite figured out their role in it, but watched the balloon location tracking websites and listened for the beacon as it flew over a number of times. Pretty cool stuff. Went around a whole bunch of times.

I helped set up some audio links so the Colorado folks (many who were cheering them on as old friend) could listen in in real-time with their radio communications many years ago. I believe they’ve stopped doing that, but many local ham operators enjoyed listening in on the launches and recoveries from another state. Even that was a decade ago now, I think.
 
I'm a high school teacher, and we had a Maker group launch a balloon with a GoPro a couple years ago. I don't know much about what notifications they sent out, but they were expecting winds from the west but it ended up going the opposite direction and crash landed on a military base. I asked them if they had checked the high altitude winds and they were like ummmmm what's that?

The base commander came to our school, read them the riot act, and returned the debris.

LOL. “Maker groups”. Don’t get me started.

They’re nice folk and intend good things, but sometimes one wonders if they did ANY basic Google searches on their projects to see if anyone has a couple decades more experience than they do, actually doing it.

It’d be amazing how much info they could get out of a simple long phone call to someone who’s BTDT. :)
 
Ok, so apparently, it’s perfectly legal to launch a weather balloon carrying a payload under 12 lbs to 100,000 ft and recover it with a parachute without any FAA coordination or notification.

Would it also be legal to attach a glider with GPS-based autopilot and recover the payload via that method?

Given all that, I wonder why we cannot fly a 2 lb drone out of line of sight?
Context?
 

Just sounded like a cool thing to do, except tracking down the landing site. Making a self-guided glider to return the payload solves that problem!

(It also would allow you to launch a drone from 100k ft giving a looong glide range)
 
I’ve done this.
www.anthracitehab.com
It was a lot of fun.
Did wrap mine in Mylar to test if it would show up on radar and according to our local tower it did. You do notify the FAA week of to isssue a notam and coordinate with local tower when you are launching. Provided you do your homework, the flight plan is fairly predictable.
 
Just sounded like a cool thing to do, except tracking down the landing site. Making a self-guided glider to return the payload solves that problem!

(It also would allow you to launch a drone from 100k ft giving a looong glide range)

I believe the EOSS group has done gliders before. One significant problem is they mostly just fall and tumble if released at really high altitudes.

I believe they launched them on the way up well before balloon burst altitude or cutdown because of that.

Launching on the way down wouldn’t work because the payload string has a pretty wild ride on the way down.
 
Data to include gps position is transmitted back to the launch site. But during free fall, reception gets lost beyound a distance and the effect of “over the horizon”.
I use a spot messenger to give position on the ground tracking so unless u dump it in a lake, you’ll find it. Plus since their vertical speed far exceeds their horizontal speed in descent, they are usually only a few feet from the last radio transmission.
 
I’ve done this.
www.anthracitehab.com
It was a lot of fun.
Did wrap mine in Mylar to test if it would show up on radar and according to our local tower it did. You do notify the FAA week of to isssue a notam and coordinate with local tower when you are launching. Provided you do your homework, the flight plan is fairly predictable.
That does look like fun. The guy said he did it to get a picture of the curvature of the earth...didn't anyone ever tell him the earth is flat? Lol.
 
I have a NWS balloon launch site very close to wear I live...I've thought about stopping by to see one of their launches (they do it twice a day I think). Once I found a NWS balloon / parachute / telemetry box in a farmers field. The unit even had a shipping envelope with it to mail it back to the NWS (which I did).
 
Local NWS office is on short final to Rwy1 ILS. I believe they call the tower prior to launch. Time the launch between arrivals. That balloon rises very fast. One time the tower called the NWS, their balloon, after popping had landed the “package” back on the runway, not more than 3 miles from the launch point.

Big Sky Theory

Coincidentally, our NWS office is also on the approach to runway 1 (KALB). Well, about a mile west of the course, but that's still pretty close. My CAP squadron toured there many years ago and the weather guy kind of bragged that he'd only once hit a plane, a 737 on departure. He was trying to tell us that there's no danger, but we were wide-eyed, thinking "It's a damned good thing it didn't get sucked into an engine." The payload is only a couple of pounds and encased in a styrofoam box, but could cause some damage to a prop or fan.
 
LOL. “Maker groups”. Don’t get me started.

They’re nice folk and intend good things, but sometimes one wonders if they did ANY basic Google searches on their projects to see if anyone has a couple decades more experience than they do, actually doing it.

It’d be amazing how much info they could get out of a simple long phone call to someone who’s BTDT. :)
How else are they going to learn?

A lot of entrepreneurs want to build new apps for things. My standard line is "if you thought of it, you can bet that someone else has already done it". But many folks learn best by doing. Certain countries didn't get the bomb by doing a simple long phone call to someone who's BTDT..... ;)
 
I use a spot messenger to give position on the ground tracking so unless u dump it in a lake, you’ll find it. Plus since their vertical speed far exceeds their horizontal speed in descent, they are usually only a few feet from the last radio transmission.

Agreed, but your spot is talking to a satellite, not a ground receiver. At least my Spot Gen II works that way.
 
How else are they going to learn?

A lot of entrepreneurs want to build new apps for things. My standard line is "if you thought of it, you can bet that someone else has already done it". But many folks learn best by doing. Certain countries didn't get the bomb by doing a simple long phone call to someone who's BTDT..... ;)

Most of the time in aviation we have someone in the other seat who’s done it, though.

Learning by doing isn’t the problem, it’s their lack of basic understanding of the airspace in which they may be doing it.
 
Agreed, but your spot is talking to a satellite, not a ground receiver. At least my Spot Gen II works that way.
I use the spot as my backup. I used a 2M GPS radio transmitter for realtime tracking through the aprs.fi network as you can set the broadcast times to much shorter intervals then the spot.
 
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