Always Check NOTAMs

rpadula

rpadula

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So, I needed to drop off the Commander at Winder (WDR) for a transponder/static check. I was almost tempted to skip checking the weather, because it was clearly a nice morning, and it would take almost as long as the actual 15 mile flight to do so. But, out of sense of duty and the FARs, I fired up the Mac. I'm glad I did.

Winds about 240-260...ok...rwy 23 it is...WHOA! What's this?

!WDR 05/008 WDR RWY 5/23 CLSD WEF 0805311200-0807012330

Wow, runway 23 closed this morning. Made myself a big note to land on 31!

To top it off, I saw 4 planes use 23 in the hour my ride and I had lunch at the Spitfire Deli. I'm sure glad I wasn't one of those bozos!


-Rich
 
Was the runway marked as closed with the X's when you were there? If not, then it probably wasn't closed in spite of the NOTAM - probably they had a construction project scheduled (and NOTAMed) and it hasn't kicked off yet.
 
I always landed on 31 regardless of wind. Maybe I'm fond of the localizer. Circling is for wimps. :)
 
TMetzinger said:
Was the runway marked as closed with the X's when you were there? If not, then it probably wasn't closed in spite of the NOTAM - probably they had a construction project scheduled (and NOTAMed) and it hasn't kicked off yet.
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Tim,

Now, if that is true and you land on 23 between the times could you get in trouble?

Bob
 
I really don't know for sure. I believe that the runway must be MARKED as closed, as well as NOTAM'ed, before you're prohibited from using it, at least for scheduled closures like that. The NOTAM really is there so you won't fly out to an airport with a closed runway, and then run out of fuel because you didn't know the runway was closed and you couldn't get to another airport. The only exceptions I've seen were when a gear up landing or other incident/accident caused a temporary closure of a runway - but at those times there was the wrecked airplane or other equipment on the runway.

So, I expect that you COULD get in trouble if you came to grief while operating from a runway that was NOTAMed but not marked closed. But if other folks came in and used the runway, I wouldn't assume that they WOULD get in trouble automatically.

That's for Part 91. 135/121 operators would probably be in violation of their op specs regardless of the state of the runway markings.
 
KennyFlys said:
I always landed on 31 regardless of wind. Maybe I'm fond of the localizer. Circling is for wimps. :)
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Yep, that was always my runway of choice as well. Sure do miss The Spitfire - good food, and good company.

Good catch Rich. Sure could see not checking weather/notams for a quick flight over to WDR. Bet you were only one of a few that checked - as proven by all the folks landing on 23
 
TMetzinger said:
Was the runway marked as closed with the X's when you were there?
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Tim, I'm not really sure. There were others in the pattern, so I wanted to concentrate on the task at hand. I suspect not, though, given others had used 23. I'd be surprised if they were all so dense to land over some big Xs.

TMetzinger said:
If not, then it probably wasn't closed in spite of the NOTAM
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But that "probably" does beg the question, if a runway is not closed when the NOTAM says so, when is it closed?

TMetzinger said:
- probably they had a construction project scheduled (and NOTAMed) and it hasn't kicked off yet.
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That was my assumption as well. First thing Saturday AM seemed like an odd time to start a government project. :) I've just not seen a runway NOTAMed closed for a solid month like that before. Usually it's been for specific times overnight. Perhaps they can do that at a field with two runways.

Funny too, when I got around to reading my AOPA mag today, the Never Again story was about a guy who busted a Presidential TFR because he didn't check.

-Rich
 
rpadula said:
I've just not seen a runway NOTAMed closed for a solid month like that before. Usually it's been for specific times overnight. Perhaps they can do that at a field with two runways.
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Heck, it doesn't take two runways to do that. Sometimes they'll do it at an airport with only one runway. They may (or may not) mark the taxiway as a temporary runway. When we went into West Yellowstone, that's what they did. Running Part 121 ops and everything!
 
Pilawt said:
If there's an 'X' at one end shouldn't there be an 'XXVIII' at the other ... ? :D
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:rofl: Good one! LOL

I will remember this one when teaching my students about runway markings!
 
Pilawt said:
If there's an 'X' at one end shouldn't there be an 'XXVIII' at the other ... ? :D
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Indeed, that is comedy gold.

I found out tonight they're supposed to be resurfacing the runway in question. Still no X's on it yet...

-Rich
 
TMetzinger said:
Was the runway marked as closed with the X's when you were there? If not, then it probably wasn't closed in spite of the NOTAM - probably they had a construction project scheduled (and NOTAMed) and it hasn't kicked off yet.
Click to expand...

I've flown into one airport only to discover that a runway was closed (big X on the runway) for paving that was never notified to FSS as being OTS, and therefore was not in the notams.
 
wsuffa said:
I've flown into one airport only to discover that a runway was closed (big X on the runway) for paving that was never notified to FSS as being OTS, and therefore was not in the notams.
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I had a similar experience flying to Gettysburg, PA about 7 years ago. Nothing in NOTAMS, 10 miles out I call inbound, somebody on the UNICOM says, "Umm, the airport is closed..."
 
I flew into an uncontrolled airport the other day where the runway was NOTAMED closed for a certain time period for crack sealing. For us this was not a huge problem because we were going to land before and depart afterwards. However, it started to rain so they canceled the runway work. The NOTAM was still listed most of the day although the airport people said the runway was open and that we could use it at any time. In this case I think the airport was late in canceling the NOTAM or decided not to bother.
 
Last summer I made a long three-day IFR round-robin trip from Washington State to the San Diego area then San Luis Obispo (KSBP) then return. For the San Diego stop I planned to land at KMYF with KCRQ as alternate, anticipating that an ILS approach would be necessary due to low coastal overcast.

I printed out the DUATS briefing for the southbound trip. With all the security and wildfire TFRs and severe weather warnings for a dozen states away it took fifty pages, single-spaced. Buried on page 19 was:
!MYF 08/007 MYF 28R ILS LLZ/GP/DME OTS TIL 0709112300
​
And on page 47 was:
!FDC 7/3592 CRQ FI/T MC CLELLAN-PALOMAR, CARLSBAD, CA.
ILS OR LOC RWY 24, AMDT 8C...
S-ILS 24 MINIMUMS NA.
S-LOC 24 MDA 1540/HAT 1214 ALL CATS.
CIRCLING MDA 1540/HAA 1209 ALL CATS.
TEMP CRANE 4196 FEET EAST OF RWY 24 THLD, 85 AGL/492 MSL
​
Before leaving San Diego I figured lightning couldn't strike three times in the same trip, could it? Yes it could.
!FDC 7/9016 SBP FI/T SAN LUIS COUNTY REGIONAL, SAN LUIS OBISPO,
ILS RWY 11, AMDT 1...
PROCEDURE NA.
​
The NOTAM format has been improved somewhat since last summer, but it can still be sneaky.
 
Pilawt said:
Last summer I made a long three-day IFR round-robin trip from Washington State to the San Diego area then San Luis Obispo (KSBP) then return. For the San Diego stop I planned to land at KMYF with KCRQ as alternate, anticipating that an ILS approach would be necessary due to low coastal overcast.


I printed out the DUATS briefing for the southbound trip. With all the security and wildfire TFRs and severe weather warnings for a dozen states away it took fifty pages, single-spaced. Buried on page 19 was:
!MYF 08/007 MYF 28R ILS LLZ/GP/DME OTS TIL 0709112300​

And on page 47 was:
!FDC 7/3592 CRQ FI/T MC CLELLAN-PALOMAR, CARLSBAD, CA.​

ILS OR LOC RWY 24, AMDT 8C...​

S-ILS 24 MINIMUMS NA.​

S-LOC 24 MDA 1540/HAT 1214 ALL CATS.​

CIRCLING MDA 1540/HAA 1209 ALL CATS.​

TEMP CRANE 4196 FEET EAST OF RWY 24 THLD, 85 AGL/492 MSL​

Before leaving San Diego I figured lightning couldn't strike three times in the same trip, could it? Yes it could.
!FDC 7/9016 SBP FI/T SAN LUIS COUNTY REGIONAL, SAN LUIS OBISPO,​

ILS RWY 11, AMDT 1...​

PROCEDURE NA.​
The NOTAM format has been improved somewhat since last summer, but it can still be sneaky.
Click to expand...
Sure wish I could read that.
 
AuntPeggy said:
Sure wish I could read that.
Click to expand...

!MYF 08/007 MYF 28R ILS LLZ/GP/DME OTS TIL 0709112300
​
[Montgomery Field -- Rwy 28R ILS Localizer, Glide Path and DME were out of service for the next few days, and there were no other approaches available that I could use]
!FDC 7/3592 CRQ FI/T MC CLELLAN-PALOMAR, CARLSBAD, CA.
ILS OR LOC RWY 24, AMDT 8C...
S-ILS 24 MINIMUMS NA.
S-LOC 24 MDA 1540/HAT 1214 ALL CATS.
CIRCLING MDA 1540/HAA 1209 ALL CATS.
TEMP CRANE 4196 FEET EAST OF RWY 24 THLD, 85 AGL/492 MSL
​
[Palomar -- a temporary crane near the runway meant that although the ILS was working you couldn't use ILS landing minima; you had to use the higher minima for a localizer approach. That was not sufficient for the weather that evening.]
!FDC 7/9016 SBP FI/T SAN LUIS COUNTY REGIONAL, SAN LUIS OBISPO,
ILS RWY 11, AMDT 1...
PROCEDURE NA.
​
[San Luis Obispo -- ILS procedure was Not Authorized.]
 
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