Aluminum trucks coming. Big industry bet - what will consumers say?

Henning said:
What?!? The Fiero was the proof of concept car that GM designed using the '"Space Frame" with pop on panel design. The Fiero being successful in longevity was what green lighted the entire Saturn division of General Motors. General Motors could have easily continued that body and chassis with a better engine. The reason it didn't happen is because GM didn't want people to associate Saturn with GM.
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henning, stick with what you know (I know you'll say that is everything but bear with me here) because you don't know squat about manufacturing cars or auto manufacturing politics
 
JHW said:
henning, stick with what you know (I know you'll say that is everything but bear with me here) because you don't know squat about manufacturing cars or auto manufacturing politics
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I don't really care about the politics of it, the manufacturing history is correct, Saturn is a direct result, and dependent on, the proof of viability of the Fiero to prove out the design concept with a limited market vehicle.

It is also true that GM did not create a media association with the Saturn brand, it was advertised as "all new".
 
GM had plenty of history with FRP construction from the Corvette circa 1953/4 and on. Pontiac was one of the most independent of GMs. Counting the Tempest, GTO, Firebird, etc it was clear that Pontiac took very little direction from the folks at GM. I'm sure GM could dip into any of their divisions and investigate anything they wanted, the Fiero had no history to present to Saturn.

Fiero was intended to compete with the Toyota and Nissan sport coupes which were crushing the crap American coupes of the day. No soap, but go ahead and believe whatever you like, it's a semi-free country.
 
Henning said:
I don't really care about the politics of it, the manufacturing history is correct, Saturn is a direct result, and dependent on, the proof of viability of the Fiero to prove out the design concept with a limited market vehicle.

It is also true that GM did not create a media association with the Saturn brand, it was advertised as "all new".
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the creation of saturn as a division had nothing to do with specific design features of any vehicle
 
JHW said:
the creation of saturn as a division had nothing to do with specific design features of any vehicle
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The Saturn as we know it would not have been produced had the Fiero concept shown defective.
 
Henning said:
The Saturn as we know it would not have been produced had the Fiero concept shown defective.
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That is some real insight. Plastic car panels would not have been made if no one could figure out how to make plastic car panels.
 
JHW said:
That is some real insight. Plastic car panels would not have been made if no one could figure out how to make plastic car panels.
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It wasn't just plastic panels, it was the entire way of engineering the chassis.
 
It will be interesting to see if this decision "rolls over" to the other major manufacturers. Could we see Chrysler or GM increasing the aluminum in their products?

Doc, in addition to stock in Ford, any financial news or speculation in Alcoa or other Aluminum producer?
 
AggieMike88 said:
It will be interesting to see if this decision "rolls over" to the other major manufacturers. Could we see Chrysler or GM increasing the aluminum in their products?

Doc, in addition to stock in Ford, any financial news or speculation in Alcoa or other Aluminum producer?
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I agree. At first, I expect that the other guys will tout their 'strength in steel' campaigns unless it works well for Ford, in which case the other guys will come out quietly with an AL option pgk until they can ramp up full production.

I haven't had a look at any of the AL raw producers, but that might be a good bet as well. Looks like some speculation going on in Alcoa:

http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/stockdetails/fi-126.1.AA.NYS?ocid=INSFIST10

Maybe folks with some insider knowledge are having a field day(year).
 
Henning said:
My sister is on her second Saturn, it's 7 years old or so, the one she had before lasted 11, she seems happy.:dunno: There are no perfect cars, even Honda has some junk out there.
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Comparing the success of either Honda or toyota to Saturn is pretty far fetched. I'm excited to see what the 2015 Saturn will look like!
 
Henning said:
Business success has next to nothing to do with product quality.
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Truly amazing statement henning. Pick up the book written by the founder of Honda! his success had everything to do with quality (for instance. ) it's why toyota is number one right now. The ignition debacle currently going on at GM which is big trouble, has alot to do with quality control. They have had many warnings of this type over the years. Ross Perot , at one time a major stockholder thru EDS cashed out and left them after warning them they could not continue the way they were operating. This was 30 years ago.
 
Quality is one way to achieve success, it is by no means required, we buy on price, not quality. You don't need to be Ichiban to be successful. Had Honda not been cheap and good, they would not have been successful.
 
An aluminum Ford truck.... that should make it easier to push to the side of the road when it dies..:lol:
 
Zeldman said:
An aluminum Ford truck.... that should make it easier to push to the side of the road when it dies..:lol:
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'S one reason I liked Yugos having a heated rear window... Kept your hands warm pushing it in the winter.
 
AggieMike88 said:
'S one reason I liked Yugos having a heated rear window... Kept your hands warm pushing it in the winter.
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Yugos were great little cars for what they were, a new car you could buy for under $4000 and it got over 50mpg.

They weren't particularly long lived, but the standard in the 80s was still 120,000 miles = worn out POS. I'm sure you saw more of them through end of life than I did, but from my experience rust was their big problem, the drive trains did ok for an 1100cc engine. When my Yugo failed, there was no pushing it, it collapsed in the middle.:rofl: It did drag along all the way to the yard though.:lol:
 
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Back in the 80's there was a news report from South L.A. that a Yugo was involved in a push-by shooting.
 
Yep, I learned to park my Aston Martin DB5 way out in the supermarket parking lot for that very reason. Ask me how I know. :rolleyes:
 
They are selling well!! :yes: So far, the more loaded the faster they are turning! The Platinum and King Ranch models are hot! That's, the good news, the bad news is we can't get enough of them.:mad2:
I ordered one Friday for a friend of mine that is a lifelong GMC owner, we drove one to visit a friend in the hospital on Wednesday, we hadn't gone 3 miles when he said he was done with GM. :D
Over half of the trucks I have coming in are ordered for customers, 3 are already paid for. ;) I just need this sales pace to continue all year!

docmirror said:
F-150 selling well. Ford ramping up more production in another plant.

GM just had a commercial on with "high strength steel" highlighted as I suspected. Doubt that is gonna dent F-150 sales.

http://news.yahoo.com/ford-motor-ce...4--finance.html;_ylt=AwrSyCTnX8xUXQsAcMnQtDMD
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N747JB said:
They are selling well!! :yes: So far, the more loaded the faster they are turning! The Platinum and King Ranch models are hot! That's, the good news, the bad news is we can't get enough of them.:mad2:
I ordered one Friday for a friend of mine that is a lifelong GMC owner, we drove one to visit a friend in the hospital on Wednesday, we hadn't gone 3 miles when he said he was done with GM. :D
Over half of the trucks I have coming in are ordered for customers, 3 are already paid for. ;) I just need this sales pace to continue all year!
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As a loyal Chevrolet Silverado owner, what are people saying they like so much about the F-150? I just don't care for how they look right now.

My Silverado only has 92K miles on it as an '03 model anyway so I can really justify a new one just yet.

David
 
The Ecoboost engines are fantastic, and finally they are making a truck with crash safety in mind.
The old steel monstrosities were fuel guzzling deathtraps.

Ford really has their sh*t together, that's why they are doing so well now.
 
mtuomi said:
The Ecoboost engines are fantastic, and finally they are making a truck with crash safety in mind.
The old steel monstrosities were fuel guzzling deathtraps.

Ford really has their sh*t together, that's why they are doing so well now.
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Huh.....:dunno:

Oh, you mean like the side saddle fuel tanks that explode when hit ??



Never mind..... That was the Chevies....:redface::redface::redface::redface:.....;)
 
N801BH said:
Huh.....:dunno:

Oh, you mean like the side saddle fuel tanks that explode when hit ??



Never mind..... That was the Chevies....:redface::redface::redface::redface:.....;)
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Ford learnt that lesson from the Pinto :)

With the F150 I mean stuff like controlled crumple zones, occupant compartments and other things they stole from us when they still owned Volvo :)
 
mtuomi said:
Ford learnt that lesson from the Pinto :)

With the F150 I mean stuff like controlled crumple zones, occupant compartments and other things they stole from us when they still owned Volvo :)
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If Ford OWNED Volvo,, They didn't have to steal anything.... They paid for it..;)
 
N801BH said:
If Ford OWNED Volvo,, They didn't have to steal anything.... They paid for it..;)
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Yeah I know, it was an old joke back then. I shouldn't say "us" anyway, I haven't worked at Volvo for a while now.
 
mtuomi said:
The old steel monstrosities were fuel guzzling deathtraps.
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ROFL. That's why we regularly see the pickup truck driver out talking and walking and the Honda driver who rammed them in the intersection getting cut out by the jaws of life and strapped to a backboard. Mass almost always wins.

Methinks you overstated your case a bit and could have left this line out and still had a good argument without trashing it with hyperbole.

Unless of course you were counting bus vs pickup truck accidents. LOL
 
denverpilot said:
ROFL. That's why we regularly see the pickup truck driver out talking and walking and the Honda driver who rammed them in the intersection getting cut out by the jaws of life and strapped to a backboard. Mass almost always wins.

Methinks you overstated your case a bit and could have left this line out and still had a good argument without trashing it with hyperbole.

Unless of course you were counting bus vs pickup truck accidents. LOL
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Regularly? Go on then, entertain us with examples.

Mass loses to survival space and controlled collapse, always, every single time.

We did quite a bit of research in this field and I would claim our safety record shows we did something right.

(I keep saying we, I don't work there anymore, old habit.)

Hint: The worst imaginable crash is a Smart crashing head-on with an old truck. There would be no survivors. Smart driver because of acceleration, Truck driver because of multiple blunt trauma.
 
Just an example of how much "mass" helps you:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCIBOYxzqko

Look how uncontrolled the collapse is. Airbags wont help you much because most of the dashboard is entering your survival space.

Compare this to a small car;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjEuow7I3bo

There are hardly any deformations in the passenger space. Even the doors would probably open afterwards.

Here is an extreme example of how little mass helps:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9OlxjkInWg

Would you like to be in that cabin? It behaves exactly the same as most big heavy trucks.
 
David, we've traded in 3 2014 Chevy High Country 4X4's this month, the highest mileage one was 7800 miles. :D Two of them were life long Chevy owners, not saying you'll like it, but don't drive one if you aren't ready to buy it. :D:D

flhrci said:
As a loyal Chevrolet Silverado owner, what are people saying they like so much about the F-150? I just don't care for how they look right now.

My Silverado only has 92K miles on it as an '03 model anyway so I can really justify a new one just yet.

David
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