Alpine to Fort Collins - Denver Approach?

Jeanie

Jeanie

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Jeanie
I'm possibly going to be flying from Alpine, TX (E38) to Fort Collins, Co (FNL) Which, if I fly direct - one stop in Raton (RTN) puts me right across Denver basicly. So, what's Denver approach like? Would it be prudent to deviate to the east around and under the outer Class B ring and then cross over the north side? I'm not sure I'd like to go west and under the rings as that puts me right over town. Or do you think they'd let me simply overfly the area right thru the middle? I don't have a TAC available at this time.
I'll be in my Cessna 152.
 
I suggest you plan to go around the east side. There is nothing out there and there are plenty of emergency fields.

I avoid the west side, because you end up weaving between KAPA, KBKF, and KBJC and you are stuck under the Class B and over Denver.

Denver approach may (not very likely) clear you through the Bravo directly overhead. The one time I've done it, it was so stressful I decided to never do it again. Denver fairly often uses the approaches from the North, so you'd be flying straight toward descending traffic. Last time we came up from the South (last month) we were on flight following and Den Approach just sent me around the east side, clear of the Bravo anyway, so you might as well plan on it.
 
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COFlyBoy said:
Denver approach may (not very likely) clear you through the Bravo directly overhead. The one time I've done it, it was so stressful I decided to never do it again.
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Why was that stressful?

FWIW, when flying east-west over Baltimore area, I typically get routed right over the top of BWI. North-south usually right over PIT.

:dunno:
 
dmccormack said:
Why was that stressful?

FWIW, when flying east-west over Baltimore area, I typically get routed right over the top of BWI. North-south usually right over PIT.

:dunno:
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My home drome is just North of the inner ring of the Bravo. So we went right over the middle of DIA at about 1500-2000 AGL (as I recall) heading North between two streams of arrivals heading South. The contoller was calling out traffic faster than we could respond. I'm actually suprised they let us go through.

If you were just transiting the area up high it wouldn't be too bad, but since we were trying to get down it got stressful.
 
West side is hemmed in between mtns and DEN, always lots of traffic and good chance of being over miles of city whereas east side happier - probably less turbulence if wind outta da west too.
West side of Denver is the only place I had a red tcas alert in imc :O
Watch for all those drones around Black Forest and north now, plus the airforce glider academy is around there somewhere (actually I heard they are all grounded due to cracked wings?)
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
Watch for all those drones around Black Forest and north now, plus the airforce glider academy is around there somewhere (actually I heard they are all grounded due to cracked wings?)
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there have been 7 cases of cracks forming in the T tails on Blanik L-23's. All 7 have been at the Air Force Academy where apparently SOP is a shake it to death preflight inspection before each launch. No wonder.
 
Well, that pretty much nails it - I was figuring to go east around the area to avoid the mountain winds dropping like a rock on the west side and the city/class B squeeza - thanks ya'll for the confirmation, essentially, of my initial pondering.
And, sure I could go IFR if I get my plane recertified for it but I'd rather not be hemmed in by their redirects also... putting around to east seems happier indeed.
 
There are VFR corridors both North and Southbound on the west side of DEN ... northbound basically follows I-25 ... check out a TAC chart ... (edit - back page)
 
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VFR on the west side of Denver usually isn't too bad. The only airspace to be concerned with other than the Bravo is BJC.

From Raton north you'll know real quick whether or not you want to be near the mountains or further out over the plains. The airspace east of PUB can be busy with the Doss Katanas (AF training). Anymore I always talk to Denver approach when near PUB (PUB lost their approach a year or two ago and now Denver approach works that airspace).

Fort Carson has some restricted airspace south of Colorado Springs. Stay near or east of I-25 to avoid that. If you talk to Springs approach they seem to have a tendency to want you over or east of Meadowlake airport. Going north Springs approach has on occasion "forgotten" about me until I prompt them for a hand-off. If you're much below 9000 then they just cancel radar services instead of handing off to Denver.

Denver approach gets busy late in the day and it can be tough to get a word in coming up from the Springs if they are landing to the north. I've flown up the VFR corridor many times without talking to folks and frankly there is rarely any traffic except near APA or BJC.

North of BJC it can be very busy since that's where everybody from BJC EIK BDU and LMO practices. That's something like seven aircraft training operations and three or four helicopter training joints. It can get really busy (but I already said that).
 
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Careful about following I-25 on the west side of Denver. If there's a ball game, there's a TFR over the field, which is right in your way.
 
murphey said:
Careful about following I-25 on the west side of Denver. If there's a ball game, there's a TFR over the field, which is right in your way.
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Not to mention my normal $5/day parking is $20 on game day ... but I digress...
 
Great, thanks for the info - I have a much better idea now of how this will go.
 
I have had nothing but awesome service from Denver Approach, even so much as a clearance into the Bravo without requesting it, or expecting it once.

I would do that if I were you. Its fun, and there's some good sight seeing along that route.
 
VFR north or south on the west side is easy. The Class B was designed with the creation of an easily navigated corridor in mind. Lots of local pilot input went into the design. Northbound, Use the recommended altitude, stay just to the west of I-25 and you're good to go. Unless its a very windy day (in which case, it will be bumpy east of DEN as well) there's no reason to go 30+ miles out of your way to avoid the corridor.

Ask for flight following. The corridor can be busy at times and that extra set of eyes can be a help - besides most people using the corridor are on the frequency since Denver Approach is so generally friendly and helpful. Don't expect a Bravo clearance for Ft Collins. Just looking at the DEN airport layout should tell you why not. The altitudes not to far above the B ceiling are approach corridors - downwind for the N-S runways and straight-ins for landings to the east. And with multiple N-S and E-W runways, you can see why right up the middle isn't a realistic option unless it's before 6 AM or after 10 PM.

Of course, I know there are pilots who are simply uncomfortable with Class C and B airspace, no matter how easy it is to transit and avoid it at all costs. If that's the case, then of course heading 30 miles east is the better option.
 
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I tried to take a look at the TAC for Denver on skyvectors.com but it only shows the front page - any of you know if it's possible to access the back page? Guess I could just buy one :)
 
I will also endorse the use of the I-25 VFR corridor... With flight following, its about as easy as it gets! Be careful of APA airspace as you enter the Class B, and when you get on the North side of Denver, be alert for a very tall tower!
 
Something that hasn't been mentioned is how easy the VFR flyways are compared to visually navigating around the east side of the Bravo.

The major north-south routes (I-25 Federal Blvd Sheridan Wadsworth & Kipling) on the west side of Denver do stand out are clear on the TAC and are easily used in daylight.

Out on the east side things aren't so simple. The navigation references change to drainages lakes and ponds with a few "towns" thrown in for good measure. A good GPS makes navigating around the east side much nicer.

(I wish the comma key worked on this keyboard...looks like I'll have to replace it since it's already been disassembled and cleaned a couple times and still the key doesn't work :frown3:)
 
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