alcohol and sport pilot

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Hello,

I have a question about getting a 3rd class medical certificate.

I am currently in my mid 20's. Since early high school I have been a drinker. I would drink on weekends to excess sometimes and occasionally on weekdays. The pattern kept up through college until I got a dui 3 years ago. About six months after the dui I checked myself into a rehab program for a month. I abstained from alcohol completely until about 2 months ago when I got drunk one night and had a run in with the police. They ended up taking me to the hospital where they called the doctor in because I was drunk. I was checked out and told that I could leave on my own. Didn't get charged with anything or had my rights read to me. I am not exactly sure why they took me to the hospital since i had a sober friend there.

I am interested in getting my private pilots license. the faa says that the following will cause a denial on the medical.

"Use of a substance in the last 2 years in which the use was physically hazardous(e.g., DUI or DWI) if there has been at any other time an instance of the use of a substance also in a situation in which the use was physically hazardous."

The episode was definitely out of the ordinary for me. I don't drink at all anymore and I consider it to be a bit of a slip up. I was out with friends that I hadn't seen in years and I didn't operate a vehicle or do anything else that was "physically hazardous" But since I went to the hospital I think that I must declare the incident on my faa medical form.

I haven't applied yet and I don't want to be denied a medical certificate. I would be very happy to fly under sport pilot rules for another 2 years until the 2 year period is complete. I honestly don't believe that i have a disqualifying condition, but I know that it will be a huge ordeal to try and get 3rd class.

Would it be safe for me to fly under sport rules. I plan on getting a 3rd class in the future but like I said, I would be real happy flying a cub or champ for a couple of years while I build up time. Right now i am just trying to figure out the best course of action. I will probably go to aopa legal advice before I actually go through with whatever.

thanks
 
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First, do not lie to the FAA -- that's a fast track to being permanently locked out of the sky.

Second, while your application may be denied/deferred, you may also have the opportunity to be further evaluated medically and given a medical certificate after a successful evaluation. Dr. Bruce Chien is the real expert on this stuff, and I'm hoping he'll drop in with better advice.
 
Greebo said:
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Keep it civil.
Click to expand...

Ooh ooh, make it public, make it public!

edit: but after rereading the OP...

The wrong attitude, IMHO, is being shown here. You don't want to beat the FAA's rules, you want to abide by them. Stay off the booze, and do it the right way.
 
SkyHog said:
Ooh ooh, make it public, make it public!

edit: but after rereading the OP...

The wrong attitude, IMHO, is being shown here. You don't want to beat the FAA's rules, you want to abide by them. Stay off the booze, and do it the right way.
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Nick, I don't see that he is trying to beat the rules. As I read it, he's willing to wait the two year waiting period while flying under sport pilot a long as it's legal and safe to do so. Maybe I'm reading into it what isn't there, or maybe others are. Dunno?:dunno:

And Ron, I agree that lying to the FAA would be the WRONG thing to do. I don't see where he's proposing that, though your admonition is, of course important!
 
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I should have explicitly stated that I am not trying to lie. I was just wondering about the sport pilot rule and how it works in cases like mine. I'll wait two years if that is what it takes. I was just looking for feedback. Thanks for your time and feedback.
 
Unregistered said:
Hello,

I have a question about getting a 3rd class medical certificate.

I am currently in my mid 20's. Since early high school I have been a drinker. I would drink on weekends to excess sometimes and occasionally on weekdays. The pattern kept up through college until I got a dui 3 years ago. About six months after the dui I checked myself into a rehab program for a month. I abstained from alcohol completely until about 2 months ago when I got drunk one night and had a run in with the police. They ended up taking me to the hospital where they called the doctor in because I was drunk. I was checked out and told that I could leave on my own. Didn't get charged with anything or had my rights read to me. I am not exactly sure why they took me to the hospital since i had a sober friend there.

I am interested in getting my private pilots license. the faa says that the following will cause a denial on the medical.

"Use of a substance in the last 2 years in which the use was physically hazardous(e.g., DUI or DWI) if there has been at any other time an instance of the use of a substance also in a situation in which the use was physically hazardous."

The episode was definitely out of the ordinary for me. I don't drink at all anymore and I consider it to be a bit of a slip up. I was out with friends that I hadn't seen in years and I didn't operate a vehicle or do anything else that was "physically hazardous" But since I went to the hospital I think that I must declare the incident on my faa medical form.

I haven't applied yet and I don't want to be denied a medical certificate. I would be very happy to fly under sport pilot rules for another 2 years until the 2 year period is complete. I honestly don't believe that i have a disqualifying condition, but I know that it will be a huge ordeal to try and get 3rd class.

Would it be safe for me to fly under sport rules. I plan on getting a 3rd class in the future but like I said, I would be real happy flying a cub or champ for a couple of years while I build up time. Right now i am just trying to figure out the best course of action. I will probably go to aopa legal advice before I actually go through with whatever.

thanks
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It will be a lot harder to certify now than it will be in two years, if you have no more run-ins in the next 2 years. If you try now, you'll need to get a full psychiatry evaluation and get on a special issuance, which I doubt you can get currently. You need two years' abstinence and you almost had it going there. Two years from now, a letter from the psych will probably do the job.
 
Couldn't he do SP for two years, then get the 3rd, and go up to PPL? This seems like a win-win all around. If he stays clean and flys for two years as a SP the 3rd class should be a slam dunk with a letter and no SI.

Just a thought, but might be worth looking into.
 
bbchien said:
Two years from now, a letter from the psych will probably do the job.
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Whereas that advice is spot on as usual, I would like to highlight the word "probably". A few high-profile FUI accidents by others may change the FAA's attitude. I sincerely wish you luck in staying sober and getting your medical certificate eventually.

-Skip
 
docmirror said:
Couldn't he do SP for two years, then get the 3rd, and go up to PPL? This seems like a win-win all around. If he stays clean and flys for two years as a SP the 3rd class should be a slam dunk with a letter and no SI.

Just a thought, but might be worth looking into.
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It was my impression that this is definitely something he was considering, and it does sound like a win-win. Presuming he can self-certify, of course!
 
The avenue that I am planning on pursuing is sport pilot. I was just trying to figure out if there were any obstacles in the way of that. Would it raise a red flag if i flew under sport pilot rules for a couple years then applied for my 3rd class medical with the past dui and history? If i was flying as a sport pilot would my privileges be suspended while I went through the 3rd class medical process.

While it may not seem so from my first post, I am a productive member of society. I have taken steps to mitigate future impacts from this (AA) and I am trying to look forward not back. It seems to me like the sport pilot category is designed to be less restrictive, allowing many more people to fly. I have done research but there is limited information about tis subject available , other than go to an AME. I think I am ok for sport as long as I don't get denied a medical, since I didn't have one in the first place to get revoked. Does anyone have a recemendation on where i could go to get a definitive answer(FAA AME etc)

thanks again for your time
 
Unregistered said:
Would it raise a red flag if i flew under sport pilot rules for a couple years then applied for my 3rd class medical with the past dui and history? If i was flying as a sport pilot would my privileges be suspended while I went through the 3rd class medical process.
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No red flags at all. You simply do not need a medical to fly sport pilot. And so you fly sport until you get your 3rd class. The only fly in the ointment is that IF your 3rd class is denied, you can no longer fly sport.
 
Well Dr. Bruce is an AME and has addressed it from the standpoint of the Class 3 medical. As you know, there is no medical required for Sport Pilot, and you can fly under that until and unless either you can not self-certify or you are denied (not deferred) an FAA medical. So you should be legal. Don't fill out the FAA form until you are SURE you will be able to pass the medical. And a few things that I think you know but that I'll mention again anyway.
1) DON'T LIE TO THE FAA! :no:
2) Don't start the medical process until you're sure you will pass!
3) Make sure you are feeling safe before flying. Sport Pilot is still flying a plane, and does NOT mix with alcohol!
4) Take one day at a time.
5) Celebrate that 2-year coin with a drink of prune juice like a good Klingon warrior and start getting the ducks in a row to get the medical.

And if Dr. Bruce or one of the other AMEs here says something that contradicts the above, listen to them, not me! :yes:
 
Unregistered said:
The avenue that I am planning on pursuing is sport pilot. I was just trying to figure out if there were any obstacles in the way of that. Would it raise a red flag if i flew under sport pilot rules for a couple years then applied for my 3rd class medical with the past dui and history? If i was flying as a sport pilot would my privileges be suspended while I went through the 3rd class medical process.

While it may not seem so from my first post, I am a productive member of society. I have taken steps to mitigate future impacts from this (AA) and I am trying to look forward not back. It seems to me like the sport pilot category is designed to be less restrictive, allowing many more people to fly. I have done research but there is limited information about tis subject available , other than go to an AME. I think I am ok for sport as long as I don't get denied a medical, since I didn't have one in the first place to get revoked. Does anyone have a recemendation on where i could go to get a definitive answer(FAA AME etc)

thanks again for your time
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WARNING**** This is not to be constituted as definitive in any way shape or form!!!

Sounds like you are doing well trying, we're human, and humans make mistakes. Sounds like you got complacent with the rules and got a reminder, and have taken responsibility for what you did, and you also either showed the good judgement, or were fortuitous enough, to not operate a vehicle in your inebriated condition. Good on you, as I see it, that factor is considerably more important than the error itself. As to the process for the third class, I would listen to Dr Bruce's advice, he's a senior AME and helps out a lot of people with issues through the process. Should I end up with a medical issue, I truely hope he is still around. As for operating under SP for a couple of years, it's a mixed bag, that is under your control for the most part. If you apply in 2 years with a record of safe operations and a 2 year coin from AA, in my opinion, and please refer to the above disclaimer, I would think that this would serve in your favor. One other good lesson that it appears from your post that you have learned is that you are not one of the very few alchoholics that can reform to the point of just having "a couple of drinks", so you have to abstain completely, and from your comments, it appears you have come to that conclusion and made this decission. Again, good on you. You know, it doesn't mean that you can't go out with friends, you can in current society do so quite productively and even free as the designated driver, many clubs and bars comp designated drivers cover charges and soft drinks as a way to reduce their liability (in many states, if a person leaves a bar intoxicated and kills someone, even themselves, on the way home, the bar tender and manager can be held to manslaughter charges). Who knows, you may even save a friends life one day without even knowing it. Even if you decide not to go SP, you could fly ultralights under Pt 103. There's some really fun ultralights out there, I suggest looking at the Eipper line.

Good luck, stay sober, stay with the AA program, and eventually, you can put this all behind you and move onward and upward.
 
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gprellwitz said:
Nick, I don't see that he is trying to beat the rules. As I read it, he's willing to wait the two year waiting period while flying under sport pilot a long as it's legal and safe to do so. Maybe I'm reading into it what isn't there, or maybe others are. Dunno?:dunno:

And Ron, I agree that lying to the FAA would be the WRONG thing to do. I don't see where he's proposing that, though your admonition is, of course important!
Click to expand...

I pretty much read it the same way you did....
 
SkyHog said:
Ooh ooh, make it public, make it public!

edit: but after rereading the OP...

The wrong attitude, IMHO, is being shown here. You don't want to beat the FAA's rules, you want to abide by them. Stay off the booze, and do it the right way.
Click to expand...


I don't see where he's trying to beat the rules at all. What I see is him asking if he can do something while abiding to the rule set involved. If he was trying to beat the rules, I doubt this thread would exist.
 
Thank you all for your insight and input. I will continue to stay off the juice and further explore my options and pursue the sport pilot route. I am definitely legal while taking lessons. This is a good place to post questions like this and a valuable service. Thanks again.
 
Well, from just reading the post. It appears that you could actually pass your Medical. It's all about wording. Now obviously you should stay off the booze if you have a problem and what not. Get yourself cleaned up first, but if you were just going by the rules, the "run in with the police" would need to be clarified a bit. If you were driving then you were participating in a physical hazardous activity. If you were in the car, and you went through a checkpoint, and the police saw you in the passenger seat and you looked pretty bad. Now you were not participating in any physical hazardous activity and could truthfully answer that question no.

Like I said, I am just looking at it from a different view.
 
RaginBajin said:
Well, from just reading the post. It appears that you could actually pass your Medical.
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I don't see any way this individual could fail to check "yes" to questions 18n ("Substance dependence or failed a drug test, ever...") and 18o ("Alcohol dependence or abuse"), and after that, the explanations will trigger several alarms. Unless I misunderstand the system, putting the OP story above in the "Explanation" block after checking those two blocks "yes" will result in at least a deferral and most likely a denial until two years of sobriety are documented (and the clock just restarted two months ago).
 
I am not going to go that route. I'll wait my two years and hopefully fly sport pilot until then. I'll probably wait until at least the fall or winter to start sport pilot. What happened happened, and while I can sit here all day and tell myself that it wasn't physically hazardous, the truth is that it was. Anyone would look at the situation and say that it was a substance abuse issue.

It just isn't worth it to lie and get caught. It also isn't worth it to lie and not get caught and always be worried about getting caught. I have been forthright so far and I think that I have done a lot better than I would have by trying to lie. You get a little more respect from people that way. If I go into the medical thinking that I will pass and I don't then a perfectly good avenue will be shut.
 
Unregistered said:
I am not going to go that route. I'll wait my two years and hopefully fly sport pilot until then. I'll probably wait until at least the fall or winter to start sport pilot. What happened happened, and while I can sit here all day and tell myself that it wasn't physically hazardous, the truth is that it was. Anyone would look at the situation and say that it was a substance abuse issue.

It just isn't worth it to lie and get caught. It also isn't worth it to lie and not get caught and always be worried about getting caught. I have been forthright so far and I think that I have done a lot better than I would have by trying to lie. You get a little more respect from people that way. If I go into the medical thinking that I will pass and I don't then a perfectly good avenue will be shut.
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I think your attitude is healthy and positive. I honestly don't know whether the FAA would have any problems about you flying Sport Pilot, and I wish you well in that endeavour.
 
Ron Levy said:
I think your attitude is healthy and positive. I honestly don't know whether the FAA would have any problems about you flying Sport Pilot, and I wish you well in that endeavour.
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First of all, I'm in total agreement with you Ron!:yes:

And anonymous, take this as high praise. Ron isn't shy about telling people when they're doing bone-headed things!:no:
 
Germane to this string- copy of my post on the red board:

Well, the tightening is happening, as promised. The serial nos FF of the 8500-8 are slated for retirement. The new series GG will have a new item
"18(y): YES/NO: Medical Disability Benefits"
And a modified 18v:

"Yes/No: History of any arrest, and/or conviction(s) involving driving while intoxicated by, while impaired by, or while under the influence of alcohol or a drug; or (2) any history of any arrest, and/or conviction(s) or administrative action(s) involving an offense(s) which resulted in the denial, suspension, cancellation or revocation of driving privileges or which resulted in attendance at an education or rehabilitation program."

Heads up everyone, STAY CLEAN!
 
SkyHog said:
The wrong attitude, IMHO, is being shown here. You don't want to beat the FAA's rules, you want to abide by them. Stay off the booze, and do it the right way.
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this is very true. I'm sure that you realized that you were being a safety hazard when you checked into rehab. That is one of the reasons I have decided to never mess with alcohol. Now think about this on the ground. You might be driving drunk and hit some guy. chance you kill him, chance you kill 6 people and yourself, chance you only kill yourself.

now put yourself drunk into the air. you are flying, with no regards, through class bravo airspace. you have no clue what you are doing, and either hit a jumbo jet in flight, or crash into the terminal, either way, many, many, many more people are dead.

now do you see how much something gets escalated when you are flying?

Do yourself a favor, and don't lie (I read on here that someone lied about their diabetes, and almost crashed a commuter plane, got him 16 months in federal prison) and just take the hard, but truthful, path to get your license.
 
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