AKTR requires full middle name?

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jFlight

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This morning was my checkride attempt no. 2, with a different DPE. I didn't even get to the oral because he noticed my Airman Knowledge Test Report only has my middle initial. He believed that it needs to be the full middle name to match the medical cert. and IARCA app.

I know my full name was provided when I took the test. The proctor is also the regular proctor at the 141 school who does a ton of other students.

The DPE is recommending I go to the FSDO to get it corrected. Not doing the checkride today wasn't a big deal, since we wouldn't have done the flight due to the Obama TFR. I'm hoping, though, that I don't have to take off work to go to the FSDO.

On the AKTR Correction instructions, it mentions "middle initial, if applicable." http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org...afs630/media/AKTR_Correction_Instructions.pdf

Any experiences? Do I have to get this corrected?
 
Are you serious?? That sounds like picking the fly poop out of the pepper to me.:mad2: I better check my son's paperwork!
 
It has to match exactly. I just bailed out a guy in the very same position.

I can't believe your CFI didn't catch this. This is covered in CFI 101.
 
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The reason it has to match exactly is that the DPE doesn't submit the paper version of your report but that the FAA matches your iacra with the contractors database at the back end.
 
bbchien said:
It has to match exactly. I just bailed out a guy in the very same position.

I can't believe your CFI didn't catch this. This is covered in CFI 101.
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Not quite. There are two regulations about how to specify your middle names.

1. Full, single middle name (even if you have more than one)
2. Just like your medical.

Those are not necessarily both possible at the same time. Most of us get medicals really early in training, well before we know of this rule. All of us get medicals pre-solo (except for sport pilots).

I contacted my DPE prior to my checkride to sort this out. The upshot was that #2 won. So, my certificate has two middle names on it.
 
apparently i slept through CFI 101, never heard of this.
 
tonycondon said:
apparently i slept through CFI 101, never heard of this.
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Neither did my instructor.

I'm in a similar situation. My name on my IR test report and driver's license have only my middle initial while my Airman Certificate and Medical have my full middle name (its a long story why). I called the DPE who will be administering my checkride and he told me that all I needed to do was to be certain to fill out the IARCA application to match the test report and it would be fine.

Does this seem reasonable?

If my DPE is correct, can the OP fill out a new IARCA application with matching names and take his ride?
 
FWIW -- if the IACAR name does not match the knowledge test name precisely it will not let the instructor enter the student's knowledge test. It'll throw an error.

Did you use IACRA? If IACRA accepted -- which it would have had to for the DPE to "start" the checkride -- then I'm not sure why the DPE would care.
 
AKT proctor was back in at the flight school today.

He states he uses your name as shown on your government photo ID, as mandated by the FAA. My ID only uses my middle initial. This is regardless of how the medical cert. is completed.

My IACRA had my full middle name, but to Jesse's point, I believe it must have accepted it anyway...???

I will talk to the DPE, but it seems like I should be good to go with completing the IACRA to match the AKTR.
 
In my inexperienced, but honest opinion, this is getting f'n ridiculous.

The 2nd DPE I'm working with is trying to help me, and I let him know what I posted immediately above. He talked to the FSDO.

They said a passport will work in lieu of the driver license. Absolutely do not show the driver license! What, as if it may cause doubt? WTF!

But more WTF!... I do not have a passport. Does this mean I have to pay another $135 and wait 6 weeks to get a passport just so I can go to a FSDO and have my AKTR change to include my full middle name? We'll see what the FSDO says tomorrow when I call them.

If that is the case, I already know I will be absolutely livid. And we wonder why GA is dying. I don't. From my perspective trying to enter, it is needless paperwork/bureaucracy(/excessive identification), flight schools and CFIs who do not respect fiduciary duty towards their students, scamming DPEs, and before I even own a plane, by anecdote, I am scared of mechanics ready to fleece me.

I can only sit here and shake my head right now. ...So disappointed. I know I have the knowledge...know I am capable...have been told I am safe in the plane multiple times over... trying way f'n hard...

And if the DMV takes your full name and puts only the middle initial on the license, how the world is this not a more prevalent issue for pilots in this state???
 
It isn't just GA. I watched a guy go through exactly the same scenario at the DMV a week ago. It was worse. He'd been waiting over an hour and the place had "closed". The clerk tried to help him out by quietly motioning to the Security guard to let his wife go outside to get his passport from the car.

Once the DMV supervisor caught wind of this, she started YELLING that "It's not allowed! If we're past closing time and someone leaves, they are not allowed back in those doors! Push the button and take the next person, he's done!"

Only by lucky timing (and the rest of us waiting thinking the DMV supervisor was an idiot, since we'd have all just stayed in our seats and let the guy finish), did they pull off the "caper" and his wife brought the briefcase with the passport to him just as the supervisor was about to ask the security guard to remove him from the chair at the window.

In fact, it was because the security guard was at the door letting the guy's wife back in, that the supervisor couldn't do anything about the situation from behind her little bulletproof glass window.

(Kinda explains why they need bulletproof glass to begin with, I reckon.)

Everything today is about "procedure" and how to get around it ("Don't show the Driver's License", "Don't let your AME download your medical application until you've discussed it."... etc.) more than it is about being a reasonable, thinking, human being.

We are so accustomed to it, I drove home wondering if the good clerk or the security guard would be "written up" for their so-called "insubordination" toward the waste of human flesh that supervised them.

(I also thought, "What a terrible job, working for that B****.")

If we hadn't all been so shocked at the supervisor's nasty behavior, it might have been fun to start a round of applause for the co-conspirators who got the guy his Driver's license or ID or whatever else he'd been waiting for.

Same DMV visit, saw a guy who lost it and started yelling when the clerk said he couldn't renew his State ID card. The reason? He had both an ID card and a Driver's license, and "that's not allowed".

He pointed out loudly that he'd happily surrender the Driver's license but that he needed to renew the ID because it was about to expire. The clerk couldn't take it. He then asked to talk to same supervisor who reiterated the rules. He loudly protested, "But it was you guys who ISSUED both of these to me in the first place!" They didn't care.

He then started yelling to the assembled crowd waiting, "I'm sorry if I'm taking a lot of time up here, but these idiots issued me both a Driver's License and an ID and now say that's against the rules and won't take one back. They say I have to re-test for the Driver's license renewal and they won't issue an ID. I've been homeless with no address or phone, so unable to find out any of this information for six months, and they apparently can't fix their own mistake. And I sure as hell don't have a car to take a driving test in." He broke down into, "I'm sorry, I'm sorry" as he realized he was making a scene and left. I'm sure, given time to think and react, at least four or five of us would have handed him a set of car keys and said, "Just take the damn driving test for these dip****s. I'll ride in back." Or if he'd have asked.

I'm so looking forward to the day these people are running healthcare. It'll be the beautiful utopia they all say it will be, I'm sure.

And before anyone gets huffy, that's not a political statement. It's a reminder that everything government touches ends up like this. The fastest path to hell, is by making a bulletproof window with an old cranky government clerk sitting behind it for 20 years, in charge of whether you get what you need or not.

My thoughts here are that the folks holding out the idea that a passport will fix the problem are the equivalent of the good clerk and Security guard. They probably don't know you don't have one. They're just holding the closed door open to the simplest solution to get around the rediculous bureaucracy. They don't know it'll cost you $135 and that you'll have to wait for it to be processed.
 
denverpilot said:
And before anyone gets huffy, that's not a political statement. It's a reminder that everything government touches ends up like this. The fastest path to hell, is by making a bulletproof window with an old cranky government clerk sitting behind it for 20 years, in charge of whether you get what you need or not.
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Actually, that's very much a political statement. Kinda like "I'm not a racist, but..." if you need the disclaimer, you're incorrect.

It's wrong in its scope. Some government employees can do a fine job. Like the guys working the new Mars rover (and if you think NASA isn't bureaucratic, you need to spend some time around here and try to ride a bicycle on an aircraft ramp you're licensed to taxi an aircraft on -- BTDT). And some non-government bureaucrats are just as bad, except without any accountability. Have you ever tried to argue with the phone company?

The issue is simply not government = bad. That's a massive cop-out that hides the true problem. It's that people who don't take pride in their work shouldn't be doing it.
 
The FSDO adamantly stated that all forms required matching names and that a photo ID was the only way to get my AKTR corrected.

I skipped the passport, instead going to the DMV to get my driver license corrected/changed. If you need to correct your name on the DL, the DMV only requires a birth certificate for verification. So check it: The FSDO needs a photo ID and a birth certificate for verification for the AKTR correction, but the ID correction only required the birth certificate. What a farse!

Side story: The DMV already had my full middle name in their system, but for some reason only my middle initial on the ID, which is not protocol for this state. They wanted to charge me $25 for teh correction, but I was able to talk my way out of that.

The FSDO scanned in my ID (actually, it was my ID with a hole punched in it, and a temporary paper license printout from the DMV) and birth certificate and emailed it off to headquarters. My AKTR was corrected in less than two days.

And on the third day, this last Friday, I had my successful checkride.
 
We're from the government. We're here to help screw things up.
 
I had an sacra mess up for my comm. ride. My name on my written didn't match my name on my PP certificates or something, I've forgotten. It was a matter of one having an apostrophe and the other not. Well the DPE said not to worry we would just use a paper 8710-1 and mail it in the old fashioned way. And we did and it worked. Since then I have been very careful to make sure the names all match on every form

AND. CONGRATS to you
 
How on earth do you think that an airplane could possibly make a safe flight over peoples heads if your middle name was not spelled out in full an just one of the trillions of government forms? WTF are you, some sort of Anarchist?

-John
 
John, I've read some of your posts/threads. I can see why you think some of this process is ridiculous, too!

Thanks for the congrats. Happy to have that stress behind me!
 
jFlight said:
John, I've read some of your posts/threads. I can see why you think some of this process is ridiculous, too!

Thanks for the congrats. Happy to have that stress behind me!
Click to expand...

It's never really behind you, believe me. They just allow you a few breathers in between each round.

-John
 
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