Airport "Closed to pattern ops"?

Jim_R

Jim_R

Pattern Altitude
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Jim
So the NOTAMs for KDTN today include this line:
"DTN 11/025 DTN AD CLSD TO PAT OPS" (Aerodrome closed to pattern ops)
(DTN is a towered field.)

I'm a "young" pilot and have never seen this before. I can think of three possible interpretations:

1) When the tower is not staffed, the airport is closed.
2) The field is not to be used for traffic pattern practice operations.
3) When approaching the field for landing, perform a straight-in approach instead of approaching to pattern entry.

I don't think the answer is #1, or it would simply say, "Airport closed when tower not staffed" or something similar.

I am guessing the answer is #2. Is that correct? Any ideas why that would be prohibited?
 
Jim_R said:
So the NOTAMs for KDTN today include this line:
"DTN 11/025 DTN AD CLSD TO PAT OPS" (Aerodrome closed to pattern ops)
(DTN is a towered field.)

I'm a "young" pilot and have never seen this before. I can think of three possible interpretations:

1) When the tower is not staffed, the airport is closed.
2) The field is not to be used for traffic pattern practice operations.
3) When approaching the field for landing, perform a straight-in approach instead of approaching to pattern entry.

I don't think the answer is #1, or it would simply say, "Airport closed when tower not staffed" or something similar.

I am guessing the answer is #2. Is that correct? Any ideas why that would be prohibited?
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Sounds like an airport manager's attempt to prohibit landing practice. Perhaps this is related to work being performed on the ground (is there a companion "people and equipment working" NOTAM?) which might be disrupted by runway traffic.
 
I would agree with number 2. It is likely that the airport is simply too busy (or like Lance said, it may be a temporary thing due to ground work) to try and fit closed traffic in with the full stop arrivals and/or IFR traffic.

I personally haven't seen that one before, but I've seen alot of airports with NOTAMS like 'practive approaches not authorized' or 'touch and go landings not authorized'.
 
Thanks, guys. That was one of the things I considered, and to avoid prejudicing the responses, I intentionally omitted that one of the two runways there is also NOTAM'd closed.

I am guessing those two NOTAMs are somehow related.
 
Jim_R said:
So the NOTAMs for KDTN today include this line:
"DTN 11/025 DTN AD CLSD TO PAT OPS" (Aerodrome closed to pattern ops)
(DTN is a towered field.)

I'm a "young" pilot and have never seen this before. I can think of three possible interpretations:

1) When the tower is not staffed, the airport is closed.
2) The field is not to be used for traffic pattern practice operations.
3) When approaching the field for landing, perform a straight-in approach instead of approaching to pattern entry.

I don't think the answer is #1, or it would simply say, "Airport closed when tower not staffed" or something similar.

I am guessing the answer is #2. Is that correct? Any ideas why that would be prohibited?
Click to expand...

A NOTAM should not require any guesswork so the only thing we can be sure of is the NOTAM is poorly written. It doesn't make sense that the NOTAM would be effective during the tower operating hours as the function of the tower is to manage the local traffic.
 
roncachamp said:
A NOTAM should not require any guesswork so the only thing we can be sure of is the NOTAM is poorly written.
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No guesswork needed -- it clearly says what it means -- no traffic pattern operations. One approach, one landing, and that's it.
It doesn't make sense that the NOTAM would be effective during the tower operating hours as the function of the tower is to manage the local traffic.
Click to expand...
It makes sense as a courtesy, so nobody shows up thinking they can get their 61.109-required "Three takeoffs and three landings to a full stop (with each landing involving a flight in the traffic pattern) at an airport with an operating control tower."
 
Ron Levy said:
No guesswork needed -- it clearly says what it means -- no traffic pattern operations. One approach, one landing, and that's it.
It makes sense as a courtesy, so nobody shows up thinking they can get their 61.109-required "Three takeoffs and three landings to a full stop (with each landing involving a flight in the traffic pattern) at an airport with an operating control tower."
Click to expand...

I guess you can always be a dick about it, leave the pattern, come back 5 minutes later, and land/take off. Rinse and repeat. Me being almost non-pilot (solo student), I'd call the airport to find out why is that NOTAM there, if this airport is my destination.
 
Was there a an airshow or exercise at nearby KBAD AFB? Or maybe a Crawfish Festival or Art Festival in downton Shreveport? Don't see any TFRs around though.

My wife worked at the DTN tower for 6 or 7 years. Nice little airport in the late 80's and early 90's.
 
Meanee said:
I guess you can always be a dick about it, leave the pattern, come back 5 minutes later, and land/take off.
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Well, you can try that, but a) tower may make it very painful, and b) there are probably other tower-controlled airports around to fill the square more easily.
 
Ron Levy said:
It makes sense as a courtesy, so nobody shows up thinking they can get their 61.109-required "Three takeoffs and three landings to a full stop (with each landing involving a flight in the traffic pattern) at an airport with an operating control tower."
Click to expand...

Since some of my night takeoffs and landings have involved a teardrop return to the opposite runway I took off from, you had me worried there for a minute, until I noticed you were referring to 61.109 and not 61.57.
 
Hey Jim my home airport is just outside slidell (picayune, kmjd airport)

If you ever fly this direction let's meet up. Everyone where I work in Alaska flies, I don't know anybody down here . . .

let us know if you find out what that NOTAM really means.

Thanks

-Rob
 
Yikes! KMJD's a long way from Shreveport...but it's not too far from KNEW. I like to visit New Orleans; maybe we can meet up the next time I head that way. (Dunno when that might be, though!)
 
Did that airport take federal airport funds?

Is it a true safety concern, or just a butt hurt airport manager?

Seems if this is all it took to keep training aircraft away, a lot of airports would hop onto this lil notam.
 
Jim you're right. Bring the family I can get you a deal on city tours, swamp tours, plantation tours etc in New Orleans . . . I'm in the business now.

I'm in New Orleans almost daily.

-Rob
 
n20junkie said:
Did that airport take federal airport funds?

Is it a true safety concern, or just a butt hurt airport manager?

Seems if this is all it took to keep training aircraft away, a lot of airports would hop onto this lil notam.
Click to expand...

I was at an airport once that had a landing fee but exempted student pilots from having to pay. I found out both while on a student solo XC, when someone approached me after parking the airplane and quietly glowing about my arrival. That's the day I became a pilot (mentally).
 
sessionthree said:
Is there a stadium nearby?
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That's what I was thinking. At KHFD Hartford, CT they built a new stadium for the UConn Huskies across the river in East Hartford. When the game is on runway 20 is rgt tfc and no PRACTICE approaches (can only do one) and no touch-and-goes or pattern work while the game is on. Probably because the controller only had half of the pattern to work with.

<---<^>--->
 
Ron Levy said:
No guesswork needed -- it clearly says what it means -- no traffic pattern operations. One approach, one landing, and that's it.
Click to expand...
So, no go arounds? How many lashings with a water-soaked FAR book will be administered for such an infraction?

I have seen clearer NOTAMs that accomplish similar, such as this one at 3W2 (Put in Bay):
NO TGL; NO STUDENT TRAINING

Given the runway (3/21) dimensions of 2870' x 75' and Perry's monument 1.5 miles to the NE (must maintain 1000' clearance, it is a 352' AGL) the prohibition on touch & go makes sense.

Still, if you MEAN no student training then you should just SAY no student training.
 
Morne said:
So, no go arounds? How many lashings with a water-soaked FAR book will be administered for such an infraction?

I have seen clearer NOTAMs that accomplish similar, such as this one at 3W2 (Put in Bay):
NO TGL; NO STUDENT TRAINING

Given the runway (3/21) dimensions of 2870' x 75' and Perry's monument 1.5 miles to the NE (must maintain 1000' clearance, it is a 352' AGL) the prohibition on touch & go makes sense.

Still, if you MEAN no student training then you should just SAY no student training.
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Well, calling a spade a spade in America is strickly forbidden. But yes, you can go-around. Just make sure you say 'going around' and not 'touch-and-go' when you do it. Like that guy in top gun 'It just dosen't look right..' when he is flying the approach right on the ball.

<---<^>--->
 
roncachamp said:
That's your guess.
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In life, everything is a guess, based upon our life knowledge, observations and our interpretations of what we have seen as applied against the knowledge.

So, yes, it is Ron's guess.

Me, if I am a betting man, I'm gonna roll with Ron, whose knowledge and experience are, to me, wholly satisfactory.
 
SCCutler said:
In life, everything is a guess, based upon our life knowledge, observations and our interpretations of what we have seen as applied against the knowledge.

So, yes, it is Ron's guess.

Me, if I am a betting man, I'm gonna roll with Ron, whose knowledge and experience are, to me, wholly satisfactory.
Click to expand...

But he says there is no guesswork here, so aren't you actually rolling against him?
 
roncachamp said:
If I had a dollar for every time that capitalism was blamed for a problem caused by government I'd be a fat filmmaker with a baseball cap.
Click to expand...
Speaking of guessing, would I be correct in guessing that you're not much of a Michael Moore fan?
 
p1l0t said:
sessionthree said:
Is there a stadium nearby?
Click to expand...
That's what I was thinking. At KHFD Hartford, CT they built a new stadium for the UConn Huskies across the river in East Hartford. When the game is on runway 20 is rgt tfc and no PRACTICE approaches (can only do one) and no touch-and-goes or pattern work while the game is on. Probably because the controller only had half of the pattern to work with.
Click to expand...
Independence Stadium is ~8 miles from KDTN, but it's only in use occasionally. Next use would probably be the Independence Bowl in a month or so. No reason to issue a NOTAM starting Nov 17.
 
I believe this is different, but worth a mention anyways: I fly in metro Los Angeles, and my home airport has "no closed-pattern ops" on Sundays and at certain times on other days of the week for noise abatement reasons. This just means you need to depart the pattern at some point after taking off, and had better not turn base to final for a landing (right after taking off) unless forced to by a safety issue.

The wording in your NOTAM is a little different, but they may have meant the same thing. Worth calling the tower for clarification. You should always ask ATC when inbound if you have last-minute doubts, though this doesn't make a very good plan A.
 
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