Airplane Maintenance Entries

OkieAviator

OkieAviator

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OkieAviator
I recently had the vacuum pump replaced and the log entry I got is for the Engine logbook. Likewise I had alternator work done as well but that goes in the Airframe logbook. I'm having a hard time grasping where certain maintenance items belong.

I get the easy ones such as new cylinders, oil changes, plugs in the Engine log; interior, radios, fuselage repairs in the Airframe log. Is the Vacuum pump in the engine log book because it bolts directly to the engine? What if you replace the hoses, filters or suction gauge... would the log entries then be split between both books?

I originally thought if it had to do with the successful operation of the engine then it would be in the engine log, but you need fuel for that and the fuel bladders, sumps, hoses ect are in the airframe book.
 
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OkieAviator said:
Oh is this like one of those topics like... When do I log my time as PIC, or what Airplane should I buy...
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Apparently he has nothing to offer.

Having said that, I was kind of surprised at what was and was not included in the engine logbooks.

Having said that, part 2, I don't have a good answer to the question. :no:;)
 
Greg Bockelman said:
Apparently he has nothing to offer.

;)
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Oh, I'm aware of the requirements. I'm just not interested in getting into a PoA inane argument of what the "experts" and "mavens" are willing to put out.


Do a search here on the subject and see what comes back. On the least it will be entertaining. :rolleyes:
 
OkieAviator said:
I recently had the vacuum pump replaced and the log entry I got is for the Engine logbook. Likewise I had alternator work done as well but that goes in the Airframe logbook. I'm having a hard time grasping where certain maintenance items belong.

I get the easy ones such as new cylinders, oil changes, plugs in the Engine log; interior, radios, fuselage repairs in the Airframe log. Is the Vacuum pump in the engine log book because it bolts directly to the engine? What if you replace the hoses, filters or suction gauge... would the log entries then be split between both books?

I originally thought if it had to do with the successful operation of the engine then it would be in the engine log, but you need fuel for that and the fuel bladders, sumps, hoses ect are in the airframe book.
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I would advise you to get your advice from your A&P-IA or their PMI at FSDO.
Here, you'll only get opinions, and an argument from those who fancy themselves experts.

The FAA uses terms like "appropriate maintenance record" but makes no statement about which that is.
 
Especially when it disagrees with your own personal opinion of the right answer.
 
Tom-D said:
I would advise you to get your advice from your A&P-IA or their PMI at FSDO.
Here, you'll only get opinions, and an argument from those who fancy themselves experts.

The FAA uses terms like "appropriate maintenance record" but makes no statement about which that is.
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I had that conversation with my IA when he handed me the log entries... basically went like this... "So the Vacuum pump gets put on the engine log?"... his replies "Yes", Then I said, "But alternators and ammeter and fuel sumps go on the Airframe log"?... his reply "Yup"...

I was asking because I wanted to put them in the 'right' book. Didn't realize there were varying opinions on it.
 
OkieAviator said:
I had that conversation with my IA when he handed me the log entries... basically went like this... "So the Vacuum pump gets put on the engine log?"... his replies "Yes", Then I said, "But alternators and ammeter and fuel sumps go on the Airframe log"?... his reply "Yup"...

I was asking because I wanted to put them in the 'right' book. Didn't realize there were varying opinions on it.
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Strange. The mechanic always entered mine, I never entered one, ever. I also always requested he print his name, sign it legibly and include the location and date. No problems.
 
Like Tom said, signatures are in the eye of the bee-holder.

I've always made the distinction that if the engine HAD to have the device to operate (carb, mags,) then it went in the engine log. If it was OPTIONAL for the engine to run (alternator, vacuum, etc.) then it was in the airframe log.

The usual ... your mileage may vary, not to be consumed if you are pregnant, nursing, or plan to be pregnant, yada, yada, yada.


Jim
 
RotorAndWing said:
Oh, I'm aware of the requirements. I'm just not interested in getting into a PoA inane argument of what the "experts" and "mavens" are willing to put out.


Do a search here on the subject and see what comes back. On the least it will be entertaining. :rolleyes:
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So why even bother engaging?
 
Jimmy cooper said:
Strange. The mechanic always entered mine, I never entered one, ever. I also always requested he print his name, sign it legibly and include the location and date. No problems.
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Sorry, wasn't clear.. I get printed out Avery stickers with all the info and signature. I just physically place the labels into my logbook. The only time I put entries in is on my owner assisted oil changes.
 
Something like that, as long as it's in one of them I think you're OK.
 
entering the crossfire here... On my checkride I had my maintenance log in my bag. When I pulled it out to show the various items like annual, ELT check, etc, he noticed that I also had a prop log and engine log.

That started a long lecture which more or less could be condensed to "Those books are neat but the only one the really matters is the maintenance log. You should probably just keep everything into one unless you are planning on parting out the engine and prop later, otherwise they dont really mean anything except being an extra book to write stuff in".

his words, not mine
 
gitmo234 said:
entering the crossfire here... On my checkride I had my maintenance log in my bag. When I pulled it out to show the various items like annual, ELT check, etc, he noticed that I also had a prop log and engine log.

That started a long lecture which more or less could be condensed to "Those books are neat but the only one the really matters is the maintenance log. You should probably just keep everything into one unless you are planning on parting out the engine and prop later, otherwise they dont really mean anything except being an extra book to write stuff in".

his words, not mine
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I'm guessing fixed pitch entry's just get put in the engine log, constant speed being more complex seems to be the justification of a separate propeller log. Just my observation.
 
Someone once told me that when it comes to accessories like vacuum pumps, magnetos, and alternators, you should put it in the logbook of the engine/airframe/propeller based on which parts manual the item is in. Not sure where that's written, but it sounds reasonable to me.
 
OkieAviator said:
I'm guessing fixed pitch entry's just get put in the engine log, constant speed being more complex seems to be the justification of a separate propeller log. Just my observation.
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If you ask the FAA's Engine and Propeller Directorate, they'll tell you that even fixed-pitch props should (not "must") have their own logbook because props (even the fixed-pitch types), engines, and aircraft often go their own separate ways. If the prop records are in the engine log, and you send the engine out for an overhaul/exchange, your prop records will go with the old engine, and then you no longer have the records for the prop which remains with the aircraft.
 
Ron Levy said:
If the prop records are in the engine log, and you send the engine out for an overhaul/exchange, your prop records will go with the old engine, and then you no longer have the records for the prop which remains with the aircraft.
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So with today's copier technology, what would preclude someone from making copies of said records (prop) and incorporating them into the new record (engine)? :dunno:
 
If you send a prop to the MFR for repairs, they'll send it back with a prop logbook, and an entry documenting the repairs.
 
Ron Levy said:
Someone once told me that when it comes to accessories like vacuum pumps, magnetos, and alternators, you should put it in the logbook of the engine/airframe/propeller based on which parts manual the item is in. Not sure where that's written, but it sounds reasonable to me.
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It is generally excepted if you bought a new engine from the manufacturer, the items that were installed IAW the engines IPC will be the items that are tracked in the engine maintenance record, all other items are airframe support items and tracked in the A/F maintenance record.
That goes for the Prop too.
 
philiplane said:
Basically, anything that bolts directly onto the engine is tracked in the engine log book.
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basically....maybe not. :D

many of those parts are airframe installation/configuration specific. :nono:

my rule of thumb.....if it isn't listed in the item's OEM parts manual....it probably belongs in the airframe log book.
 
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RotorAndWing said:
So with today's copier technology, what would preclude someone from making copies of said records (prop) and incorporating them into the new record (engine)? :dunno:
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Nothing -- as long as the specific prop by serial number can be identified in those prop entries in those engine log copies (e.g., the copied entries include the mounting of the prop by s/n on that engine and its removal by s/n from that engine), and you remember to do that before you ship the engine and log. However, the FAA still recommends a separate prop log, and given the low price of a separate prop log, I recommend doing what the FAA recommends.
 
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Tom-D said:
It is generally excepted if you bought a new engine from the manufacturer, the items that were installed IAW the engines IPC will be the items that are tracked in the engine maintenance record, all other items are airframe support items and tracked in the A/F maintenance record.
That goes for the Prop too.
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Did you mean "excepted" or "accepted"? I think it was the latter, and that would be consistent with what I said. I just don't know where that's written in any reliable guidance material.
 
Ron Levy said:
Did you mean "excepted" or "accepted"? I think it was the latter, and that would be consistent with what I said. I just don't know where that's written in any reliable guidance material.
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Accepted.. As I said above, it isn't. IMHO that is why we have so much confusion.
 
There is no requirement to have separate airframe and engine logbooks at all so it doesn't really matter into which book any particular entry is made. Remember also that these are your logbooks and if you want you can make your own entry into the airframe book stating that the vacuum pump was replaced - ref: see engine log entry this date.
 
Silvaire said:
There is no requirement to have separate airframe and engine logbooks at all so it doesn't really matter into which book any particular entry is made. Remember also that these are your logbooks and if you want you can make your own entry into the airframe book stating that the vacuum pump was replaced - ref: see engine log entry this date.
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Just remember that if you ever want to sell the aircraft, or separate the aircraft/engine/prop from each other, you may have problems. OTOH, if you do it as the FAA recommends, you'll never have any problems on that score. Considering the price of paper logbooks, unified a logbook seems like a penny-wise/pound-foolish choice, but it's one you are free to make.
 
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