Airplane Engine in A Car Accident

Discussion in 'Maintenance Bay' started by chartbundle, Jun 13, 2019 at 1:02 PM.

  1. chartbundle

    chartbundle Cleared for Takeoff

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    In a story which gets weirder by the day.

    I had a prop strike, my engine was taken off, sent to the overhaul shop, during the prop strike required work(Lycoming) they found other issues so I paid the additional cost, over what insurance covered for the prop strike, to make it a full overhaul. It got put back in the mechanics pickup and in the process of returning to his shop he got in an accident and flipped the pickup. The engine went back to the engine shop and sent me photos.

    At my request the engine shop hasn't done anything else yet.

    The photos indicate a destroyed oil filter, damage to the crank flange and one bushing pushed out(but maybe/maybe not enough to bend the flange), a cylinder fin section destroyed and several injector lines damaged.

    I'm of the opinion that at this time the engine is really worth the core value and the auto insurance company owes me a fully overhauled engine again. I've asked the shop not to open the engine because at this point it can be used as a core for a Factory Reman. The other option is the engine shop does basically another prop strike tear down/IRAN and I end up with an engine that has ultimately been in an accident.

    Thoughts? Laughter? Mostly laughter I think...
     
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  2. Creekrat

    Creekrat Filing Flight Plan

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    My thoughts would be that the forces experienced by the engine after the flipped truck could have caused many different issues that you could be chasing for years. Cracks or stresses in the case and other hardware that may not rear their ugly heads until its heat cycled many times. I agree that the insurance company owes you a replacement equal to or greater than the quality of what it was once placed in the bed of the truck and I would not trust your engine. You may want to also speak with your insurance company and they may take care of it and then go after the automobile insurance company to recoup their losses.

    -Paul-


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  3. DaleB

    DaleB En-Route

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    SOMEONE (auto insurance company, engine shop, elves, who cares?) owes you a freshly overhauled engine, since that's what you have already paid for. At this point, that would either be a different identical freshly overhauled engine, or yours -- after MPI and whatever else needs to be done to guarantee no cracks or other concealed damage.

    Don't get wrapped around the axle over who pays for it. You don't care, right? As long as you end up with what you have already paid them to return to you, which is a serviceable, guaranteed engine with a fresh major overhaul.

    Just my $.02 worth.
     
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  4. Ryan Klems

    Ryan Klems Pre-Flight

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    Wow, that's super unlucky! Wonder what the limits on the insurance are for the person at fault in the accident? I think I'd have a conversation with your insurance company and perhaps see if it might be possible/easier to go through them and have them subrogate the claim to whoever was at fault, as this certainly shouldn't be your responsibility to deal with all this, but you certainly don't want to end up f'd! Might be time to go buy a lottery ticket!
     
  5. chartbundle

    chartbundle Cleared for Takeoff

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    I guess I should mention the Engine Shop is entirely blameless. My, probably former, mechanic delivered the engine to the engine shop and then picked up the overhaul and he's the one who got in the accident. But obviously who pays is less relevant than getting it dealt with. I'm hoping my aircraft insurance company will deal with his auto insurance as ultimately this is part of the existing prop strike work they're paying for, so they don't want to be out any additional money.
     
  6. A1Topgun

    A1Topgun Pre-takeoff checklist

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    NOT!! With the luck chartbundle has had up to now!
     
  7. Fiveslide

    Fiveslide Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Oh, man, that sucks.

    Do keep us updated. It's not likely anyone will ever find themselves in your position, thus it's not really a teaching moment. It is darn interesting and I... Must.... Know. How does it end?
     
  8. Brad Z

    Brad Z En-Route

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    I would probably invest in 30 minutes of legal consultation at this point, as there are a lot of different scenarios. Ideally the mechanic who transported the engine has insurance that would cover such a thing (I'm assuming it was his fault?. Either way, he has a duty to deliver a properly overhauled engine, free of any defects resulting from the accident. How that happens may involve multiple insurance companies and subrogation claims.

    And yeah, my apologies, I feel for you.
     
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  9. bflynn

    bflynn En-Route

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    I hope the mechanic is ok.

    Roll it back - what if the mechanic did all the work and had a beautiful engine. Then, before leaving his shop, his rusty engine stand breaks and the brand newly overhauled engine hits the deck, causing the damage you indicated. Who is at fault?

    The person at fault for the accident is on the hook or the mechanic. Both you and the insurance company paid/will pay him to do work and someone has caused it to be ruined. The accident destroyed your value. The person at fault for the accident had to make you both whole. If that person can't pay, it falls back to the mechanic. Either way, you get your new engine.
     
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  10. weilke

    weilke Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Ugh.
    You may run into an issue with the shop owners car insurance and liability carrier pointing fingers at each other. Assuming that he is not a motor carrier with all the right pieces of paper to transport other peoples merchandise around the country, what does car insurance pay for 'damaged luggage' ?
     
  11. chartbundle

    chartbundle Cleared for Takeoff

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    Ultimately it's the Mechanic anyway, as far as I'm aware it was a solo accident with him driving his pickup, possibly due to a medical issue, but I don't have any police reports etc yet. He is having some challenges and that's why I'm also looking to hand the remainder of the project off so he can work on himself.

    Yes, that's an open question. If I'm in his car and he gets in an accident and damages me, then obviously his insurance pays, I'm not sure how that works if it's just my stuff in his car, and even less sure how it works if he's doing business stuff.
     
  12. DaleB

    DaleB En-Route

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    You'd better hope not. That typically is limited to $.50/lb. Go ahead. Ask me how much I got when a trucking company just flat lost a crate with a $26K computer part in it.
     
  13. Juliet Hotel

    Juliet Hotel Cleared for Takeoff PoA Supporter

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    That engine is cursed. Keep it as far from your airplane as possible.
     
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  14. Ryan Klems

    Ryan Klems Pre-Flight

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    I just figured with this run of bad luck, it should be time for some good luck :)
     
  15. chartbundle

    chartbundle Cleared for Takeoff

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    I wish I had known that sooner, I would have had the original prop strike just go straight to a factory Reman... Which would have been faster and hopefully not involved a car accident.
     
  16. AggieMike88

    AggieMike88 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    The original "I don't know it all" of aviation.
    Had similar fun when a trucking company destroyed a $8,000 used Diesel engine I had sold to a customer in Spokane.
     
  17. A1Topgun

    A1Topgun Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Ah, yes, reversion to the mean statistic.
     
  18. JOhnH

    JOhnH Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    I'm really glad to see that noone is actually laughing at
    I'm guessing that $0.50/pound is the base insurance, if you don't purchase more (which I usually do not). But if the value of the cargo is sufficient, I will purchase that additional insurance.
     
  19. Bacho

    Bacho Filing Flight Plan

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    Your crashed engine still has a prop strike on its logs. Personally, I would not find that history a big deal as long as its been properly evaluated. You might as well have that done to find out the true extent of the damage and the amount of $$ we are talking.
     
  20. Matthew Rogers

    Matthew Rogers Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I ship custom furniture (like $15,000 tables) and always buy the insurance. One time a crate was damaged and a small dent was found in the end of a table. 5 days later I had a check for $3,000. No fuss. So yeah, pay for the extra freight insurance if the value of the shipment is more than $2,000.
     
  21. Salty

    Salty En-Route PoA Supporter

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    Just for a point of data, there no way in hell I’d put that engine back on my airplane. The minute it left the bed of that truck, some insurance company owned it. Figure out which one.
     
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  22. weilke

    weilke Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    That's the thing. This engine wasn't damaged by a motor carrier where the shipper would have had the option to buy the extra coverage. This engine was transported by someone whose business is not shipping. It'll require very diligent reading of both the (hopefully commercial) liability policy on the truck and the (hopefully existing) general commercial liability policy for the maintenance shop to determine who has to pay for it. If the shop has no insurance and the truck was a personal vehicle, the OP may be SOOL.
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2019 at 10:18 PM
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  23. JAWS

    JAWS Line Up and Wait

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    I wonder is this could be classified as one of them 'quick stopped engines' I have heard about? :D
     
  24. Donny Hughes

    Donny Hughes Filing Flight Plan

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    This is more than likely not going to have a good ending .
     
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  25. hindsight2020

    hindsight2020 En-Route

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    Isn't it kinda bush league to transport the high $$$ merchandise in a third party's personal vehicle? This should have been handled via freight forwarder, precisely in order to avoid hitting dirt when subrogation for the loss occurs and the dude at the epicenter of the loss doesn't have two nickles to rub together and make you whole. Textbook false economy move, aka checker's move. No effing way I let the mechanic personally pick up the merch on a POC like that.
     
  26. benyflyguy

    benyflyguy Pattern Altitude

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    This sounds like the sort of thing that will take two years to sort out. Sorry to hear. Hope it gets resolved quickly and you get back in the air!
     
  27. Rgbeard

    Rgbeard Line Up and Wait

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    I'm not litigious by my nature, but I'd say without the help of a lawyer, you'll come out on the short-end of the stick.
     
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  28. Rgbeard

    Rgbeard Line Up and Wait

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    Yeah. Exactly.

    I'm in the IT business, and we often have customers move equipment from one data center to another.

    IBM Charges ($$,$$$) to move a mainframe from Vegas to Phoenix, or you can rent a U-Haul and do it for less.

    The business world allows IBM do the move, have the field engineer do the crating, and sees the FedEx Critical Truck arrive and take it away.
     
  29. chartbundle

    chartbundle Cleared for Takeoff

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    So, anyone recommend an aviation attorney in Oregon?
     
  30. Kenny Phillips

    Kenny Phillips Pattern Altitude

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    And that is why we individually insure high value cargo.
     
  31. Bacho

    Bacho Filing Flight Plan

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    Hindsight is 20-20.

    I kinda doubt most people would go for hiring professionals to move an engine across town.
     
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  32. Jsalter

    Jsalter Filing Flight Plan

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    First thing to do is report it to your hull insurance claims adjuster to put him on notice. Then ask your mechanic how he/his insurance is going to pay for it. There is a very high likelihood that he does not have liability insurance if he's a one man shop. No a&p ever thinks they will need it. There is a high likelihood that he has standard auto insurance that won't cover commercial operations. If this is not the case, great, his insurance should pay. If it is the case, tell your own claims guy immediately. They will pay your claim and attempt to subro. Let him fight the battle after you are taken care of.
     
  33. chartbundle

    chartbundle Cleared for Takeoff

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    My hull insurer is well aware of the situation as he is so far the only one the Mechanic has responded to at all. I've contacted the auto insurer and they claim since the engine was in the "Care, Custody or Control" of the Mechanic(their insured) that they have no obligation to cover anything. The insurer helpfully suggested I consider small claims court... I laughed at them, they asked what the number was, and I told them the full value of $55k.

    The risk with my own insurance is that they will repair the engine, they have indicated that they may not cover it as a full overhaul. Which comes down to if an engine with 0 SMOH and now an engine 0 SMOH with damage history since major(after repair) is considered "Similar Kind and Quality" There's also the matter if this repair is part of the original accident or a new accident from the policy limit point of view, if it's part of the original accident then it would likely lead to a totaling of the A/C.

    So, as the 80% view on this thread... I'll be speaking with a lawyer this coming week.
     
  34. Zeldman

    Zeldman Touchdown! Greaser!

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    So, how does one log this in the engine log book.??
     
  35. chartbundle

    chartbundle Cleared for Takeoff

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    "Oh no, not again."
     
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  36. Salty

    Salty En-Route PoA Supporter

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    I would (via an attorney) make it very clear to my insurance company that this is not the same claim and that the engine can no longer be repaired. That’s just me.

    I had something similar happen when a concrete block flew off a truck in front of me and damage the front fork of my motorcycle. The insurance company paid for what they thought it should cost to have the dent removed and slap on a coat of paint. I didn’t need an attorney, but it took a few angry calls to get them to understand that you can’t take a dent out of a motorcycle fork and have it function properly. I eventually got someone with a clue and they paid to replace the fork tube.