Airpark Property

Papa Foxtrot

Papa Foxtrot

Pre-takeoff checklist
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Papa Foxtrot
So the lovely wife and I are driving home from church Sunday and we pass a small airpark along the way. I remark, "I hear there's a house for sale in there..." To my surprise, she says, "Let's have a look." Needing no further encouragement, we're soon walking around a vacant 3,000 sqft home on 3.5 acres with a detached 50' x 50' hangar. While I've dreamed of living on an airpark since I got my license, she really seems to be warming up to the idea.

Being the risk analyst that I am, I'm looking for downsides. All property in the Atlanta area took a hit in '08, although not as bad as some areas of the country. I'm wondering what the outlook is for airpark property. I'm guessing that values will hinge on the health of GA in general. Also, I'm afraid that getting a knowledgable appraiser might be a challenge.

Any gotcha's that I should look for in the HOA organization. This is a small, unpretentious place(<30 homes) with a small common area(clubhouse & pool) and a 3,000 ft turf runway. Homes vary from hangar homes to a max of approx. 3,500 sqft. I'm wondering with a small owner base, if viability of the HOA could become a concern? Any warning signs to look for?

Thanks in advance!
Patrick
 
I think you have identified the biggies with the exception of the tiny and growing tinier resale market and the inevitable political squabbles that seem to be constant and even more heated in airport communities. If you could find a way to just sit around the coffee table (maybe cocktails would be even better as the tongues loosen) with the regulars, you could learn much more.

Papa Foxtrot said:
So the lovely wife and I are driving home from church Sunday and we pass a small airpark along the way. I remark, "I hear there's a house for sale in there..." To my surprise, she says, "Let's have a look." Needing no further encouragement, we're soon walking around a vacant 3,000 sqft home on 3.5 acres with a detached 50' x 50' hangar. While I've dreamed of living on an airpark since I got my license, she really seems to be warming up to the idea.

Being the risk analyst that I am, I'm looking for downsides. All property in the Atlanta area took a hit in '08, although not as bad as some areas of the country. I'm wondering what the outlook is for airpark property. I'm guessing that values will hinge on the health of GA in general. Also, I'm afraid that getting a knowledgable appraiser might be a challenge.

Any gotcha's that I should look for in the HOA organization. This is a small, unpretentious place(<30 homes) with a small common area(clubhouse & pool) and a 3,000 ft turf runway. Homes vary from hangar homes to a max of approx. 3,500 sqft. I'm wondering with a small owner base, if viability of the HOA could become a concern? Any warning signs to look for?

Thanks in advance!
Patrick
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wabower said:
If you could find a way to just sit around the coffee table (maybe cocktails would be even better as the tongues loosen) with the regulars, you could learn much more.
Click to expand...

Excellent suggestion - maybe a stroll around the grounds next Saturday afternoon is in order...
 
Get a set of HOA rules and read them.
 
Tom-D said:
Get a set of HOA rules and read them.
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Thanks! That's already on the punchlist. I'm not a big fan of encyclopedic covenants - preferring short and simple. I'm sure it will be interesting reading....
 
Tom-D said:
Get a set of HOA rules and read them.
Click to expand...

:yeahthat:

I have a few friends who live in airparks in various states, and the common comment is that the HOA is either ineffectual or draconian. There is one who has landed in a nirvana of like minded flyers who work together to make their dream of living on a strip work. I hope this is the case for you.
 
So, my personal opinion on HOAs is... :hairraise:

I think you've hit the big items. I'd probably ask...

1) Given that the airstrip is owned/managed by the HOA, how is the HOA structured? Are there any liability concerns that may accrue to homeowners if something should happen at the airstrip? If you would accrue liability for an accident you weren't involved in, it will impact your own insurance.
2) Maintenance of the airstrip?
3) If there is a major expense that arises, who bears the cost? How would a special assessment be done? And what would be the potential cost?
4) Resale value: the market for resale of an airpark home is more limited than a home in another neighborhood.
5) Look at the books of the association. Are folks paying dues on time. See if there are any homes in foreclosure. If so, is the bank making payments to the HOA? (This is an issue with any rural property covered by an HOA - especially true if there is a private road and/or airstrip).
6) You've noted the "get to know" members of the association. Try to find out how long the board members have been in, and whether the elections are truly open or whether there's a cabal.
7) If you contemplate going on the board, what insurance does the HOA buy to cover the board members?

The rest is usual homebuying stuff.
 
Threefingeredjack said:
:yeahthat:

I have a few friends who live in airparks in various states, and the common comment is that the HOA is either ineffectual or draconian. There is one who has landed in a nirvana of like minded flyers who work together to make their dream of living on a strip work. I hope this is the case for you.
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The intention of HOAs are good, "keep the place from turning into a junk yard" but when they have too much power and can tell you what color your house must be is a little over the top.

Run way maintenance will be a big issue, $$$$

Western air park at Yelm, Wa. had the deeds to the property saying that the property extended to the center line of the runway, Some A$$ said that if it did he could park their car on the runway if they liked (and did to prove a point) Big law suit, lots of money spent so he could prove a point.

Grass, who mows, who pays?
 
Tom-D said:
The intention of HOAs are good, "keep the place from turning into a junk yard" but when they have too much power and can tell you what color your house must be is a little over the top.

Run way maintenance will be a big issue, $$$$

Western air park at Yelm, Wa. had the deeds to the property saying that the property extended to the center line of the runway, Some A$$ said that if it did he could park their car on the runway if they liked (and did to prove a point) Big law suit, lots of money spent so he could prove a point.

Grass, who mows, who pays?
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Look for easements for runway and taxiway. They ought to take care of the guy who wants to park or build on the runway or taxiway.
 
Run a judicial records search on the HOA.
 
Wanderers with ample supplies of cold beer in the car are usually welcome on the weekends . . . or most any other time. The HOA rule-book will tell you how somebody envisioned the org structure, rules and regs and operational structure back when some lawyer wrote it because the deal couldn't get done without having one in place. The guys at the tables (try to sit at more than one) will fill in the blanks about how it really happens in 2012. IME, very few private strips operate according to the book, and would be broke before Monday if they tried to do so.


Papa Foxtrot said:
Excellent suggestion - maybe a stroll around the grounds next Saturday afternoon is in order...
Click to expand...
 
I own property on a similar airpark (no clubhouse, but 3000' grass strip, community boat docks ,etc..). We've got fairly relaxed rules. If there are a lot of unbuilt lots, I'd check to see how the financials are (are people paying their dues, are their foreclosed lots in the neighborhood) in addition to the HOA bylaws and rules as mentioned by others.

The other question is there lots that are in control of non-airplane people. I know of one other development where the airstrip is only a minor part of the community and by and large neglected by the HOA.
 
flyingron said:
The other question is there lots that are in control of non-airplane people. I know of one other development where the airstrip is only a minor part of the community and by and large neglected by the HOA.
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Sounds like you're describing Cheasapeake Ranch, in Southern Maryland.
 
Depending on your loan to value ratio, some lenders may be cautious about lending - for the same reasons you are cautious about buying. They may require a higher % down than a 'conventional' home loan. Also, I'm not sure if the loan would be sellable (is that a word?) on the secondary market. All these issues are worth discussing with a lender and talk to neighbors about what they have done. Maybe it's a non issue in the area.
 
weilke said:
Run a judicial records search on the HOA.
Click to expand...

Excellent!

flyingron said:
If there are a lot of unbuilt lots, I'd check to see how the financials are (are people paying their dues, are their foreclosed lots in the neighborhood) in addition to the HOA bylaws and rules as mentioned by others.
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Completely built out. Nothing else listed for sale in the airpark. Not sure about foreclosures.

flyingron said:
The other question is there lots that are in control of non-airplane people. I know of one other development where the airstrip is only a minor part of the community and by and large neglected by the HOA.
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No "non-aircraft" amenities. The place really is small, just a few homes around a turf strip.

Badger said:
Depending on your loan to value ratio, some lenders may be cautious about lending - for the same reasons you are cautious about buying. They may require a higher % down than a 'conventional' home loan. Also, I'm not sure if the loan would be sellable (is that a word?) on the secondary market. All these issues are worth discussing with a lender and talk to neighbors about what they have done. Maybe it's a non issue in the area.
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The listing price is not very far out of line with what a similar home on 3.5 acres would be in the area. If it will appraise to our offer without considering the runway out back, hopefully that won't be an issue.

wsuffa said:
So, my personal opinion on HOAs is... :hairraise:
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Me too... :rolleyes:

wsuffa said:
1) Given that the airstrip is owned/managed by the HOA, how is the HOA structured? Are there any liability concerns that may accrue to homeowners if something should happen at the airstrip? If you would accrue liability for an accident you weren't involved in, it will impact your own insurance.
Click to expand...

Thanks!! I work in insurance and that one didn't occur to me. It would not surprise me if one of the covenants requires the HOA to be a named insured on the homeowners policy. More risk management for me...

wsuffa said:
2) Maintenance of the airstrip?
3) If there is a major expense that arises, who bears the cost? How would a special assessment be done? And what would be the potential cost?
Click to expand...

Assessment language in the covenants is a big item on the checklist. Being a turf runway, hopefully no big ticket hits on the horizon.

wsuffa said:
5) Look at the books of the association. Are folks paying dues on time. See if there are any homes in foreclosure. If so, is the bank making payments to the HOA? (This is an issue with any rural property covered by an HOA - especially true if there is a private road and/or airstrip).
Click to expand...

Good point!

wsuffa said:
6) You've noted the "get to know" members of the association. Try to find out how long the board members have been in, and whether the elections are truly open or whether there's a cabal.
Click to expand...

Actually, I have a passing acquaintance with someone who lives there - at least he did when I met him. Met the guy once and it came up in conversation that he lived at the airpark. I'm pretty sure that I can get his phone number - he was a vendor for a friend of mine.

wsuffa said:
7) If you contemplate going on the board, what insurance does the HOA buy to cover the board members?
Click to expand...

Not my cup of tea, but if the possibility arises, I'll definitely keep that in mind.

Good points all! Thanks everyone!
Patrick
 
We've not noticed any particular financing issues on airpark properties even with three foreclosures. I heard some people had issues finding homeowners insurance for a property with an attached hangar (even from my insurer) but I didn't have any problems, and they sent out an appraiser so he couldn't have missed the fact that it's a hangar (you have to drive past the AIRCRAFT ONLY sign to get to my driveway).
 
pmanton said:
VERY important.We've had a lot of law suites over minor squabbles with some real animosities between factions.
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Lawsuits are like pus, they are not the problem, they are the symptom of something wrong deeper down. It is the factious environment I would be worried about, not so much the lawsuits themselves. There is one place in the northwest were lawsuits were filed about dog-walking along the runway :hairraise: .
 
Sorry that you have such a bad experience. This is not what happens at our place. It's uncommon to see more than one plane using the place at a time. We mostly are a one-way in one-way out if the winds are calm or light (arrive and depart over the lake which is slightly downhill). More often than not, if someone notices you haven't been able to mow your grass, they'll make a pass while doing their lawn.

We have three to four social events a week between airpark people and a few neighbors who live just off the airpark. While there are a few personality issues (won't say that everybody gets along or likes to socialize with everybody else), there's a pretty good core of easy going people.
 
weilke said:
Lawsuits are like pus, they are not the problem, they are the symptom of something wrong deeper down. It is the factious environment I would be worried about, not so much the lawsuits themselves. There is one place in the northwest were lawsuits were filed about dog-walking along the runway :hairraise: .
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Grumpy retirees with nothing better to do than to police other people. :rofl::rofl:


How difficult or costly is it to buy land and build a turf strip? You can get cheaper land farther away and that even gives you an excuse to fly the airplane to the city whenever you have to resupply, go to the doc, etc.
 
cirrusmx said:
Grumpy retirees with nothing better to do than to police other people. :rofl::rofl:



How difficult or costly is it to buy land and build a turf strip? You can get cheaper land farther away and that even gives you an excuse to fly the airplane to the city whenever you have to resupply, go to the doc, etc.
Click to expand...

Grumpy retirees with nothing better to do than to police other people. :rofl::rofl:

That happens at EVERY condo in Florida.:yesnod:


That is what I did... Bought into a 300 acre ranch, got my 80 acres and put in my own 3000' airstrip..... I answer only to myself.:yesnod:...
 
cirrusmx said:
How difficult or costly is it to buy land and build a turf strip? You can get cheaper land farther away and that even gives you an excuse to fly the airplane to the city whenever you have to resupply, go to the doc, etc.
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You need a pretty big chunk of land to build your own strip, unless you have a farm/ranch use for the land around it (or someone to lease it from you), this is not much of an option. Not that I haven't thought about it....

The question is what you want to achieve with your own strip? It is an awful lot of grass to mow just so you dont have to deal with others (goverment/HOA) for runway access. Sure, if you live on a farm and you use your plane for travel, it is a worthwhile use of a piece of land. But just so you can say 'I own an airport', don't know. In most rural areas, hangars at public airports are quite affordable. Those are the only places where purchasing enough land for your own strip is even feasible. As someone on the beechtalk site found out recently, even owning 100+ acres at the end of a 15mile gravel road doesn't mean that you dont have a nosy neighbor who could file complaints against your landing strip.

Airparks are a compromise. Some of them seem to work quite well but there are a couple of horror stories out there, in a mature place like the one you are describing, getting the inside scoop on how the place is being run should be possible. I looked into one place in northern MN at one point to build a hangar with a weekend place. Most of the full-time residents had a hangar 'in town' in addition to their airpark property in order to have use of the plane during winter and early spring.
 
cirrusmx said:
How difficult or costly is it to buy land and build a turf strip? You can get cheaper land farther away and that even gives you an excuse to fly the airplane to the city whenever you have to resupply, go to the doc, etc.
Click to expand...

You need 10 acres of land in a long and narrow configuration to put in a minimal grass strip. While the Feds don't care what you do (as long as you file the notice that you are building it), the local governments can be impossible. The head of the Virginia Department of Aviation wanted to build a small residential airpark and wouldn't find any county that would permit it. You've either got to be out in the boonies where you don't have any permitting authority to speak of or you've got to be grandfathered in (like all the ones I know about including mine).

As for mowing, it takes about three hours I think for us to mow ours. Those who live on the strip take turns mowing.
 
I have a piece of land on a private airstrip. We(HOA) have been in the litigation mess before, and its dragging down everyone. We've also had fights and minor litigation on the rules of buildings and use. I decided I didn't want to live like that and never built on the place. I can't stand squabbles about shyte that 99% of people would just let go.

It's also important that the runway, and taxiways are owned/managed by pilots, or someday you may come home and find the strip dozed over for more houses. Make sure you have a permanent easement to maintain, and use the runway and taxiways.

I was hoping when I bought to just build my little place, and stay out of the way of all the BS. Sadly, the BS comes calling sometimes, and they just won't take pizz off for an answer.
 
We had an issue with the developer (who wasn't malicious but he's an idiot and he screwed up just about everything he touched). What was supposedly the community hangar lots suddenly got up and sold when he was short money. We finally realized the best thing was to just hope he gets out of our hair. He finally sold his last remaining lot and we closed out all his rights at the same time. It's been pretty peaceful since. There's a little grumbling about raising the assessments to fix the road, but people pretty much settle down.
 
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