Airlines so bad, even the Post Office won't use 'em anymore...

[Jay Honeck]

I had a meeting with a Postal Service honcho a few days ago, and the talk turned to the role they played in the establishment and maintenance of airports and airline service in America. (For those who don't know, airmail was essential to the development of commercial air service in America...)

We started talking about how bad the airlines had become, and I was stunned to discover that the USPS has largely stopped using the airlines to deliver mail, because they are simply too unreliable! Believe it or not, much of your mail is now delivered by (you guessed it!) UPS!

Who'd ever believe airlines could get so bad? What a shame...

 

[KennyFlys]

I had heard FedEx handles a lot, hence the deal that FedEx boxes are located at post offices.

 

[2256Q]

I had a meeting with a Postal Service honcho a few days ago, and the talk turned to the role they played in the establishment and maintenance of airports and airline service in America. (For those who don't know, airmail was essential to the development of commercial air service in America...)

We started talking about how bad the airlines had become, and I was stunned to discover that the USPS has largely stopped using the airlines to deliver mail, because they are simply too unreliable! Believe it or not, much of your mail is now delivered by (you guessed it!) UPS!

Who'd ever believe airlines could get so bad? What a shame...

I wonder how much nonsense the mail has to clear with all the security stuff?

 

[Henning]

I had a meeting with a Postal Service honcho a few days ago, and the talk turned to the role they played in the establishment and maintenance of airports and airline service in America. (For those who don't know, airmail was essential to the development of commercial air service in America...)..

Yeah, same deal that killed intercity passenger rail service.

 

[Jay Honeck]

Yeah, same deal that killed intercity passenger rail service.

Really? I'm not familiar with that aspect of it. Care to expand on that a bit?

Thanks!

 

[Henning]

Really? I'm not familiar with that aspect of it. Care to expand on that a bit?

Thanks!

The US Mail was what subsidized the scheduled intercity passenger rail service in this country (All the trains had a "Mail Car" and even in towns where they didn't stop, there was a hook on a pole and the Mail Conductor would hold that towns mail bag out the door on another pole and transfer it to the to the town pole at a reduced speed) and made it profitable. When they took the bulk of the mail carrying contracts and gave them to the airlines, the passenger rail lines no longer had a feasable profit margin, so they closed down.

 

[Jay Honeck]

The US Mail was what subsidized the scheduled intercity passenger rail service in this country (All the trains had a "Mail Car" and even in towns where they didn't stop, there was a hook on a pole and the Mail Conductor would hold that towns mail bag out the door on another pole and transfer it to the to the town pole at a reduced speed) and made it profitable. When they took the bulk of the mail carrying contracts and gave them to the airlines, the passenger rail lines no longer had a feasable profit margin, so they closed down.

Interesting. That's the same thing that happened to airlines in 1973, when Congress ordered the Post Office to become efficient.

They quickly consolidated all the airmail stops into "hubs", cutting off hundreds of little airports, making passenger service unprofitable -- and *poof* -- the airlines abandoned all the little airports.

 

[KennyFlys]

Interesting. That's the same thing that happened to airlines in 1973, when Congress ordered the Post Office to become efficient.

I don't think that has ever happen given the post office entry level wages are more than twice that of the federally mandated minimum wage. That is with NO experience.

I dated a 21yo girl back in 1987 who went from being a lighting store clerk to sorting mail for the post office. Her starting wage was $10.00 per hour. Not too shabby for those days. I was a five-year, seasoned copier tech when they still did actual repair and not just swapped out boards. I made $7.50 per hour.

Actually, I think the post office and the airlines have a lot in common. Only, the post office gets to raise their rate and no one has a choice.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

I don't think that has ever happen given the post office entry level wages are more than twice that of the federally mandated minimum wage. That is with NO experience.

That probably gives them the ability to actually screen their applicants rather than just being forced to hire any warm body that walks in the door. It probably also reduces training costs due to lower turnover.

Something wrong with that? Personally, I really have a problem with organizations that don't pay good people what they're worth and thus are continually losing the good people.

 

[KennyFlys]

That probably gives them the ability to actually screen their applicants rather than just being forced to hire any warm body that walks in the door. It probably also reduces training costs due to lower turnover.

Something wrong with that? Personally, I really have a problem with organizations that don't pay good people what they're worth and thus are continually losing the good people.

You completely missed the point of what you quoted.

 

[michelle]

We started talking about how bad the airlines had become, and I was stunned to discover that the USPS has largely stopped using the airlines to deliver mail, because they are simply too unreliable! Believe it or not, much of your mail is now delivered by (you guessed it!) UPS!

Who'd ever believe airlines could get so bad? What a shame...

Interestingly enough there was an article in the Houston Chronicle (at least in the web version) about Continental carrying more and more of the mail and using that work to offset the other losses. They also made reference to the increase in available space on some planes as customers started packing lighter to avoid bag fees. Supposedly they also intend to increase such work out of Newark in the future...

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/business/5908494.html

"
The Houston-based carrier has increased its share of carrying domestic mail, which should translate into about $4 million in additional revenue this year, the carrier said.
In June alone, Continental carried more than 11 million pounds of mail, much of it coming through its hub at Houston's Bush Intercontinental Airport. Its mail handling there has grown by 40 percent in the past year to more than 6 million pounds, spokeswoman Kelly Cripe said.
Although Continental is losing money along with most other major carriers due to soaring fuel prices, it hopes that focusing on things it has more control over — like carrying mail — can help offset higher costs.
It's not just about volume. Continental is using a new computer program that responds to electronic messages the U.S. Postal Service sends to air carriers when it has excess mail to deliver."


I don't believe the website requires a password or log-in...at least I have never needed one for just a few articles.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

You completely missed the point of what you quoted.

Did I?

Congress ordered the Post Office to become efficient.

I don't think that has ever happen given the post office entry level wages are more than twice that of the federally mandated minimum wage.

I take your post here as meaning that the post office is not efficient because they're paying their employees more than twice minimum wage...

That probably gives them the ability to actually screen their applicants rather than just being forced to hire any warm body that walks in the door. It probably also reduces training costs due to lower turnover.

... And my point is that paying minimum (or any other low) wage does NOT make any organization efficient.

 

[tonycondon]

have you ever tried to get a job at the post office? its the most amazing ring a marole i have ever heard of. multitude of ridiculous tests, applications, all with different people in different places. if you *needed* a job, its not the place to go, the process takes about 3 or 4 months.

 

[KennyFlys]

Did I?

I take your post here as meaning that the post office is not efficient because they're paying their employees more than twice minimum wage...

... And my point is that paying minimum (or any other low) wage does NOT make any organization efficient.

What I'm saying is if private enterprise utilized the same means and same starting wages for hiring they would be cutting heavily into their operating budget. Keeping costs low enables competitive pricing. Paying twice the normal rate is not keeping costs low. It's paying twice as much for the same thing in the private sector. But, the post office is not limited as is the private sector. They have a captured audience and the ability to raise rates and no one can do anything about it.

Read my earlier story again. That was one example. In 1986, I had a neighbor who was a mail carrier. He made $17 an hour after having been with the post office for only three years. He also received the usual overtime rate for an added fifteen or so hours. That year, the minimum wage in Colorado was $3.35. If you added a very generous dollar raise every six months for his three years, he would still not be at the same wage as the post office. He would not make that kind of money anywhere in the private sector with the same experience.

If you want more examples, go visit a few post offices and watch the employees. You'll find a few quite quickly you would never hire in the private sector. Some are making significantly more than the very experienced instructors among us such as Ron, Scott or Joe. Never mind the decades of experience in becoming such an instructor. Yet, all that was required in the post office was simply existing.

In the post office in the little town I lived in back in Georgia, a lady at the counter confided in me she made $27 per hour and her time with the post office was just over thirteen years. Find that in the private sector. You won't!

If the post office set standards similar to what the private sector must live by, first class letter postage would be about a dime less than what it is now.

I won't even get into that it takes to get fired thanks to their union.

 

[Henning]

That probably gives them the ability to actually screen their applicants rather than...

Well, I believe they will give preference to a vet even if the screen lower.

 

[ScottM]

have you ever tried to get a job at the post office? its the most amazing ring a marole i have ever heard of. multitude of ridiculous tests, applications, all with different people in different places. if you *needed* a job, its not the place to go, the process takes about 3 or 4 months.

All civil service is like that.

 

[mikea]

...
If you want more examples, go visit a few post offices and watch the employees. You'll find a few quite quickly you would never hire in the private sector. Some are making significantly more than the very experienced instructors among us such as Ron, Scott or Joe. Never mind the decades of experience in becoming such an instructor. Yet, all that was required in the post office was simply existing.

In the post office in the little town I lived in back in Georgia, a lady at the counter confided in me she made $27 per hour and her time with the post office was just over thirteen years. Find that in the private sector. You won't!

If the post office set standards similar to what the private sector must live by, first class letter postage would be about a dime less than what it is now.

I won't even get into that it takes to get fired thanks to their union.

I do visit the post office, both at the huge one in the City of Chicago and the suburbs. The counter help consistently does a satisfactory. professional, and friendly job these days. They had the riot act read them by the US Postmaster General many years back and they turned around.

They have problems like mail delivery in Chicago, which has improved but is still pretty bad, but customer service ain't the problem.

You want to see customer prevention in action? Try a UPS customer counter. I've witnessed the Chicago one swearing and SCREAMING at a customer who merely muttered that the 1 1/2 hour wait for his package was ridiculous.

My country mail carrier is a hoot. He knows what everybody's doing and gave me the whole lowdown on the history of my house and the neighborhood. He knew when the default notices were coming for the previous owners who ended up in foreclosure. He even knew my neighbors in high school. If any cops wanted the background on any of us, he's the one that knows. Maybe we should get laws to force privacy rules on the USPS.

 

[ScottM]

em.

You want to see customer prevention in action? Try a UPS customer counter. I've witnessed the Chicago one swearing and SCREAMING at a customer who merely muttered that the 1 1/2 hour wait for his package was ridiculous.

I like UPS a lot for shipping boxes. They do it well, fast, and at a good price point. But I will NOT go into their ship centers anymore. Talk about the rudest people I have ever had to deal with!!!

Now I do all the shipping form home and then just drop off at the 'borwn' store. Those people are fine.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

What I'm saying is if private enterprise utilized the same means and same starting wages for hiring they would be cutting heavily into their operating budget. Keeping costs low enables competitive pricing. Paying twice the normal rate is not keeping costs low. It's paying twice as much for the same thing in the private sector. But, the post office is not limited as is the private sector. They have a captured audience and the ability to raise rates and no one can do anything about it.

And what I'm saying is that while cutting wages in half may save you half the money you were spending on wages, you'll spend an awful lot more on recruiting and training new employees. You think the post office is bad now, imagine how much worse it would be if they were paying minimum wage!

In the post office in the little town I lived in back in Georgia, a lady at the counter confided in me she made $27 per hour and her time with the post office was just over thirteen years. Find that in the private sector. You won't!

Bull. Go find your nearest GM plant (on this side of the Rio Grande, that is). Find someone who's been there 13 years. I bet they're making that much and more. I know that when I toured a GM plant in the neighborhood of 25 years ago, they were making $19/hr for a standard line worker.

I won't even get into that it takes to get fired thanks to their union.

Now THAT, I will agree with you on. They need to be able to fire people so that they must EARN their wages.