Airline rant

[Dave Siciliano]

I just made reservations for a 14 year-old-niece on a major and it was a nightmare. First tried on the internet and you can't book a minor on there, but the policy wasn't very clear; so, I called. It was nuts. Got some woman in India that couldn't explain things. She quoted one fare and when we went through all the gyrations: who's dropping her off (my niece), whose picking her up, whose paying for the ticket, etc. the final bill was $240 more than the reservation initially quoted. That wasn't acceptable!



So, I called customer service: another joke. Held for 20 minutes. Finally got someone that sounded like they knew what they were doing. She directed me to another reservations agent---in India. Well, guess what. Booked flights and when my niece showed up to get on the plane they wouldn't let her board!!

After a lot of haggling, they changed her flight. Seems if they are 11 or under, they must pay extra to be accompanied. At 12 to 17, one can opt to have them accompanied (which we wanted). If accompanied, they can't take the last flight of the day, but they booked the last flight even though I had explained this to them. One lady wanted to charge me an extra fee for each leg--stop enroute. It was nuts.

My niece finally had to leave at 6:20 A.M. in order to meet their requirements!!

I thought it was bad before--now I may get better service on Greyhound!!

Returning today, my Dad--who is 84, had to stand for two hours to get her to a gate agent and through security. They were going to miss the flight--he finally found a supervisor to get through security. They had to run all the way to the plane and they closed the doors after my niece boarded. Dad was exhausted.


Dave

 

[bbchien]

Returning today, my Dad--who is 84, had to stand for two hours to get her to a gate agent and through security. They were going to miss the flight--he finally found a supervisor to get through security. They had to run all the way to the plane and they closed the doors after my niece boarded. Dad was exhausted. Dave

It's not going to get better, Dave. Not until we either set standards (regulation) or we stop demanding and booking the cheapest flight. And, you know how badly regulation works. Think of Medicine as a comparative industry. Same stuff happening.

 

[Let'sgoflying!]

plane down, Dave?

 

[wsuffa]

Commodity.

No room for customer service.

Downward spiral until it becomes a duopoly (no real competition) or regulation comes back in.

I've got about 600,000 miles on Delta that I need to use ; but I need reasonable assurance of income before I spend the money on hotels and ancillary stuff.

 

[Dave Siciliano]

plane down, Dave?

Plane's working great Dave. Niece in Wisconsin needed to go to San Diego. I flew out and met her. For me to fly to Wisconsin, then San Diego, then Wisconsin and back to Dallas was too much.

I flew out and back for a few days and saw her and my Dad.

The P-Baron was great on my part of the trip. Ground speed over 200 knots at FL230 on the way back. Over the top of all the building systems between Phoenix and Tucson. Best part was the requested gradual descent beginning at ABI all the way to the Knead intersection on the D/FW STAR--220 GS all the way down at 13.5 GPH. Center referred to me as a King Air several times (and Cessna once)

Dave

 

[Let'sgoflying!]

oooh
sounds like you are lovin that Baron.

 

[sierra]

Commodity.

No room for customer service.

Downward spiral until it becomes a duopoly (no real competition) or regulation comes back in.

I've got about 600,000 miles on Delta that I need to use ; but I need reasonable assurance of income before I spend the money on hotels and ancillary stuff.

hmph. I know an airline (actually, I know two) that actually LIKES their customers. Even if they are non-rev (altho the non-revers are Extra clean up crew LOL).

we've got a saying... friends don't let friends fly delta.

 

[Richard]

we've got a saying... friends don't let friends fly delta.

Dave didn't say which airline it was but the more I read of his rant the more I was inclined to think Delta.

We've never booked directly with the airlines and the last several years has been through Travelocity. Although, Travelocity may have seen the last of our business since they have made some rather blatant clerical errors which have resulted in immense frustration. AA staff have always stepped forward--a couple of times above and beyond--to resolve any issues so they have a good record with us. Several times the AA folks at the counter have taken the liberty to exercise their individual discretion to right the wrong. I don't know if that is company policy to allow for that or it is simply an individual taking the helm to make the decision but it has worked in every instance. The fact that there have been repeated instances where we would still be waiting in the terminal but for the save made by some counter folk tells me the company may allow for that latitude.

 

[wsuffa]

hmph. I know an airline (actually, I know two) that actually LIKES their customers. Even if they are non-rev (altho the non-revers are Extra clean up crew LOL).

we've got a saying... friends don't let friends fly delta.

I was speaking of the major network carriers. SWA and JB are different. I hope it can continue, but the history of the airline business is littered with carriers that used to provide good service.

I used to live in Cincinnati. No choice there but to fly Delta (95% of the seats out of the market are DL or Comair).

 

[gismo]

Dave didn't say which airline it was but the more I read of his rant the more I was inclined to think Delta.

My airline rants:

The last couple airline trips I've made were on Delta and they pretty much went without a hitch. I'm boycotting NWA because they have made it clear that their intent is to destroy as much of the Minneapolis reliever airport system as they can. They managed to convince the airport commision to raise our hangar lease rates by a factor of 2.5 and this was on top of a scheduled 25%/year increase that the commision had adopted four years ago. In addition they want to close two of the five relievers. They claim that every dollar spent on the relievers is money that should be spent improving the main airport to their benefit, but it's pretty widely accepted that they have recognized GA and air charter services as a serious competitor for their highest paying passengers.

The one problem I had with Delta is that they wanted to charge me an extra $100 each way to bring my waterski along as it it longer than their maximum baggage dimension of 5 ft. I managed to get them to waive the fee with some begging and pleading but such a policy seems nonsensical to me. I though that Delta did a fair business flying skiers to the mountains inthe winter and I can't imagine them charging everyone as much to bring their skies as they do for the tickets in the first place. I've also heard that this policy of charging exhorbant fees for skis has been instigated at other airlines as well but I haven't had an opportunity to check on that. What are they thinking?

 

[Dave Siciliano]

Richard:


This flight was on United. Didn't have many options from Madison, WI to San Diego.

Dave

 

[Dave Siciliano]

oooh
sounds like you are lovin that Baron.

-----------------------------
I really am Dave. The fuel prices are scarin the bejesus outta me, but the plane is what I wanted it to be--very happy. My nieces loved it on the trip to Mexico.

Dave

 

[Richard]

Richard:


This flight was on United. Didn't have many options from Madison, WI to San Diego.

Dave

Uh, I meant UA.

 

[BobS]

My twelve-year daughter does not flying in my Arrow. She says she can't move around, she doesn't like the headsets, she's usually too cold, can't read because of turbulence, and it takes too long. She went alone to Chicago from Albany this week. After going through security she had a five-hour ground hold weather because of weather in Chicago, and then after landing an hour before they got a gate. She admitted that she wished I'd had flown her. It would have been faster!

 

[John J]

Dave;

It is great to see you having fun with that 58P. Wow 13.5 GPH on the down hill is sweet. Sorry to hear about the airline hassle. Brings back horrible memories of many airports and taking 12 to 14 hours for a trip that should take less than 6.

Had one flight from BWI to HOU where my 85 year old mother-in-law who was in a wheel chair took me over an hour to get her through security and the the airline ground folks just left her there. Fortunatley the security people let me get her to the gate which was a real long hike. Got her to the gate just before the door closed. The flight attendent did not help getting her to a seat so a passenger and I got her belted in. My mother-in-law has a great sense of humor and asked me if her ticket price included service. This was just about a year ago.

As Bruce said it is happening to many industries.


Have fun with the Baron

John

 

[Larry Liebscher]

Realistically, for most of my travelling NWA is my only choice. Seems to be the case for the majority of people, except those living in a few large hub cities, that there isn't any choice in which airline to fly.

I know that for the majority of the traveling public it is treated like a commodity. Price is the only deciding factor. But for so many things in my life I don't buy the cheapest. I pay more for higher quality service, function, aesthetics, etc. But when it comes to air travel, my only real choice is do I want to pay coach or first class fare on NWA. (And with elite status, I usually get upgraded anyway.)

 

[gismo]

Wow 13.5 GPH on the down hill is sweet.

Don't get too excited, I'm sure that was per side, not total. Those engines idle at about 5 gph each.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

hmph. I know an airline (actually, I know two) that actually LIKES their customers.

Midwest. It's gonna cost somewhat more most likely, but you'll get a nice wide comfortable seat and all the other amenities normally reserved for "first class." (For those who haven't flown with them, Midwest is basically all first class - DC-9/MD-80 class planes with 2x2 leather seats.) Cloth napkins, complimentary wine, all that stuff.

Used to like United when they'd let their people have fun. Example - Flight attendant: "We're beginning our final approach, so please return your seat backs and tray tables to their full upright and most uncomfortable positions." They were enjoying their jobs and it made the whole experience better. Haven't flown with them since 9/11.

Used to fly Delta a lot, never had any bad experiences, or really any particularly good ones. Delta and AA both rate "average" in my book.

These days I avoid Northwest on general principle when I can - See Lance's post. Unfortunately, I've been on them a couple of times simply because I wasn't the one buying (or paying for) the ticket. I would happily avoid those awful Saab 940's for the rest of my life too, though NWA flies mostly A319's and DC-9's out of MSN. That's the other thing that sucks about avoiding them as they're the only carrier flying "real" jets out of here. UA, AA et al are using RJ's. (=no legroom for this 6'4" beast)

Mostly though, since getting my PP, I avoid flying airlines at all. I think I've flown four times (2 NWA, 1 AA, 1 Midwest) post-certificate. The airline experience is just so bad now that it's rarely worthwhile. In fact, the door-to-door time on one particular NWA flight, despite having no layover and being ~1000nm, was so bad that I could have done it in just about the same time in an Archer! Not all of that was NWA's fault, but between security, waiting for bags, waiting for rental car and driving the last 75+ miles to a destination <5 miles from a perfectly good GA airport just made me want to scream. The ONLY advantage in that case was the cost.

As a result, I've made some longish (300-1000 nm) trips via GA despite being VFR-only. I just watch the money burn and smile because I can arrive happy and enjoy myself.

BTW Dave, if you need someone to escort your neices to/from flights at MSN, I would be happy to. I'll even fly up to C47 to pick them up if you want, but they'll have to pack a little lighter than when they're in the Baron.

 

[PoAdeleted5]

deleted.

 

[Dave Siciliano]

Don't get too excited, I'm sure that was per side, not total. Those engines idle at about 5 gph each.

Of course 13.5 per engine. Multi guys just state fuel flow per engine--I think

Not just the down hill portion of the flight. The entire cruise portion. 30 each in the climb for 'bout 40 minutes out of San Diego up to FL230; then, the big mixture pull back to 13.5 per hour for the entire cruise and descent portion of the flight. Greatly increases range. This power setting is actually in the POH and is clearly LOP!! Give me total endurance between six and seven hours (depending on length of climb). Normally, I'm climbing at 140 knots and truing out 195 knots at FL180. Came to Addison from San Diego non-stop on Monday. Stopped on the way out because of a slight headwind and not highly confident in the fuel flow measuring system and analog gauges yet. But a couple more trips and fill ups will confirm what I'm burning and what's remaining.

Best,

Dave

 

[John J]

Those fuel numbers are really nice. I can remember flying copilot and we always glad to see 20gph per side. And that was with agressive leaning on those radials.

Dave how long was the trip in time?

John

 

[Dave Siciliano]

BTW Dave, if you need someone to escort your neices to/from flights at MSN, I would be happy to. I'll even fly up to C47 to pick them up if you want, but they'll have to pack a little lighter than when they're in the Baron. [/QUOTE]

Very nice of you Kent to make this offer---course, you don't have any idea what you may be getting yourself into!!

Dave

 

[Dave Siciliano]

Those fuel numbers are really nice. I can remember flying copilot and we always glad to see 20gph per side. And that was with agressive leaning on those radials.

Dave how long was the trip in time?

John

5.5 on the hobbs.

 

[John J]

Dave;

That is great time including the time to climb to 23.

John

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Very nice of you Kent to make this offer---course, you don't have any idea what you may be getting yourself into!!

Dave,

LOL... I've only met your neices once, but they were very well-mannered. Of course, maybe things are different when they aren't outnumbered by pilots. I'm sure they're fun though.

 

[Dave Siciliano]

Kent:
I'll probably try to head up that way around Halloween. Let's see if a couple of us can link up again!

Dave

 

[flyingcheesehead]

I'll probably try to head up that way around Halloween. Let's see if a couple of us can link up again!

Definitely! Lots of $100 burger opportunities up this way, I'm sure we can find one you haven't been to yet. I still have quite a list of ones to visit that I haven't been to yet! (Including the Hitching Post next to C47, have you ever been there?) Have you done any up here besides LNR and JVL?

 

[Dave Siciliano]

Definitely! Lots of $100 burger opportunities up this way, I'm sure we can find one you haven't been to yet. I still have quite a list of ones to visit that I haven't been to yet! (Including the Hitching Post next to C47, have you ever been there?) Have you done any up here besides LNR and JVL?

The Hitching Post is fun. Kinna laid back. There are several places in the Dells I've gone to, but ground transport is an issue unless we go to the Cassino.
Whitman Field has a couple places we can walk to from the Hilton. Madison, of course, has that nice breakfast on the field. Rockford has some things close and I'd like to try Lake Geneva sometime.

Dave

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Mini fly-in around Halloween?

The Hitching Post is fun. Kinna laid back. There are several places in the Dells I've gone to, but ground transport is an issue unless we go to the Cassino.
Whitman Field has a couple places we can walk to from the Hilton. Madison, of course, has that nice breakfast on the field. Rockford has some things close and I'd like to try Lake Geneva sometime.

Dave

I eat in O'Malley's Jet Room at MSN with my CFI, Joe Burger, fairly often. Joe practically lives there, so I told Pat O'Malley that he should put a "Joe Burger Burger" on the menu. However, I think I'd probably have to park my car at the South ramp, jump in a plane, go around the pattern a couple times, park the plane on the East ramp to eat at the Jet Room, and then reverse the process if we go there.

I haven't done Lake Geneva, the casinos at DLL, or anything at RFD either.

Morris was a great one, I'll certainly return. Other N. IL ones on my list are Schaumburg and Clow.

Other WI destinations on my to-do list: Schreiner's at FLD, Joe's Restaurant at MTW, Black Angus at PDC (a couple others there too), Peaches at 93C, Harbor View @ PBH, and Steak Frye @ RYV. I need to start making the list shorter rather than longer!

Who else is in?