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Discussion in 'Hangar Talk' started by Slipperhead, Mar 8, 2018.
They should have pulled the Garmin. LOL.
A 1954 Cessna 170 hit Barnstormers, within 24 hours it had 40 responses, sold sight unseen for 10k over asking. It's not the price any more, it is what you are selling.
The 6A-350-C1R 220 hp
Nope, I do know the guy who was importing them for the 172 up grade is no longer around, and no one really knows who is providing parts. PZL is no longer manufacturing them.
170/172/180/182/185/206. Working Cessna's seem to lose value at an unbelievably slow rate or in some cases gain it. I certainly bought my 180 for more than the previous owner did, even accounting for inflation. DHC2's also seem to gain value.
Particularly for the taildraggers on your list, unless one goes the home builder route, what are the alternatives?
I looked at adding a 180 to the hangar last year and decided I didn't want to tie up the $ it was going to take to secure a reasonable example for a local flight "weekend airplane". They command too much of a premium, as you note. And frankly, it's almost unheard of to find one that hasn't been damaged. In fact the nicer the paint job the more balled up they seemed to have been sometime in their past.
So I looked at a few 170s instead, and came to the exact same conclusion. Too expensive, too many bidders.
For what I am willing to spend looks like a 160 hp Pacer or even a Citabria is a better value for what I want to do. But they aren't in the same league or capability as the metal 180.
Some thing off the beaten track, such as a Fairchild 24 either the R or the W versions are fun to fly durable as it gets.
And as I view Barnstormers this morning there isn't a single one for sale, seems like others think the same as I do.
Maule is the alternative. An older M5 can be had quite reasonably and almost all of them have quite nice panels. However even on the maule forums, the maule owners say they'd prefer a Skywagon, and since I'm young and keeping the plane for life so decided to get the "last plane first". Additionally, insurance on Maules is pretty high because they're short coupled and a bit harder to control on the ground. All of that said I really don't think I would've been at all upset to own a Maule. I still think they're great, capable planes with their own advantages.
Edit: All of that said the maule I really would've wanted (M7-235) (spring steel gear, negative flap angle) cost somewhat more than 180's and are more comparable to 185s. So it's really only the m4/m5 that's are a bit better priced and their availability is lacking after basic med.
I think whether it's a buyers market or a sellers market depends on what you're looking at. If you go to Flightaware on any business day, and look at the list of flight by aircraft type, it's almost always the case that out of all the types that most likely are owner flown, the most common one will be either a Skyhawk or an SR22. I'm guessing that the Skyhawks are being used as trainers, and the SR22s are being flown for business. After those two, you usually see Barons and Bonanzas, but after that, the next most numerous types are usually all single digits. In addition to those, there are usually 10-20 Navajos, which are probably flying freight, and a similar number of 402s, unless there's a Nor'easter blowing, because Cape Air will mostly be grounded. As far as owner flown twins goes, outside of the Barons, the numbers are few, and the market for light twins reflects that.
On the other hand, I think the market for owner flown singles is still holding up well. Listening to the stories people tell on how hard it was for them to buy an airplane gives me the impression that the market for singles is getting tight, and looking at the production figures over the last 30 years, I can see why. The number of airplanes produced fell off of the shelf in 1982, and really never recovered. Even the best years since then had a few more than 2000 piston airplanes produced in the US, and many years the total production was less than 1000, of which approximately a third was exported.
If you're interested in the data, look at page 24 of the PDF here: https://gama.aero/wp-content/uploads/GAMA_2017_AnnualReport_ForWeb.pdf
Actually, there have been ADs from the FAA that have caused major drops in value. The early-2000s proposed Twin Cessna wing spar AD dropped the bottom out of that market for a while, though I believe AOPA and the type club successfully fought that off.
The above is more the exception than the rule I think
Many owner flown aircraft are blocked.
FlightAware, of course, has their own network of ADS-B receivers to get somewhat around this, and provide business continuity if FAA were ever to cut them off of data they need to survive.
But until the ADS-B spying mandate is complete in 2020, nobody really knows how many they’re missing.
Not saying the trends aren’t accurate, but there’s some big holes in the data gathering that can’t be plugged.
No doubt, but I'm saying that it's quite possible to do everything right during purchase and ownership and still lose it all.
Possible, not likely... Otherwise I wouldn't own a plane!
True, I've blocked every plane I've owned and luckily for my current ride the only flights that show up on the other sites are my not so frequent IFR flights.
>1000AGL is for chumps