Aircraft Light Operation Question

[ARFlyer]

I got into a debate the other night with my CFI on aircraft light operation on the ground.

My argument was that at night you keep your landing and strobe/anti-collision lights off during taxi. This is to be help other pilots and ground crew night vision. Also that its an "unoffical rule" that at a hold short line you keep them off unless you have been give takeoff clearance. This is to help out the landing aircraft.

His argument was that all available lights must be on at night. Even when passing other aircraft or ground crew. Epecially since the aircraft, that night, does not have a red beacon. Also that he has never heard of the hold short courtesy.

Our primary aircraft have NAV, LANDING and ANTI-C. Our Pipers, which I'm now flying, have NAV, LANDING, RECOG, STROBE & BEACON and BEACON & NO STROBE.

So are we both right, wrong or in some gray area again?

 

[RotorAndWing]

I got into a debate the other night with my CFI on aircraft light operation on the ground.

My argument was that at night you keep your landing and strobe/anti-collision lights off during taxi. This is to be help other pilots and ground crew night vision. Also that its an "unoffical rule" that at a hold short line you keep them off unless you have been give takeoff clearance. This is to help out the landing aircraft.

His argument was that all available lights must be on at night. Even when passing other aircraft or ground crew. Epecially since the aircraft, that night, does not have a red beacon. Also that he has never heard of the hold short courtesy.

Our primary aircraft have NAV, LANDING and ANTI-C. Our Pipers, which I'm now flying, have NAV, LANDING, RECOG, STROBE & BEACON and BEACON & NO STROBE.

So are we both right, wrong or in some gray area again?

Taxiing with strobe lights on is foolish and annoying. Use the taxi light as needed during taxi.

Strobe lights on as you take the runway for takeoff and turn them off leaving the runway after landing.

 

[ARFlyer]

Taxiing with strobe lights on is foolish and annoying. Use the taxi light as needed during taxi.

Strobe lights on as you take the runway for takeoff and turn them off leaving the runway after landing.

That was my argument. I wish our primary aircraft had taxi lights.

 

[denverpilot]

I also like to (re-)activate strobes when crossing runways (active or not) if runway crossings are required to get where you're going on the airport after landing.

Just one more chance not to be landed on and squashed like a bug.

Otherwise, agreed -- off on the ground.

 

[RotorAndWing]

That was my argument. I wish our primary aircraft had taxi lights.

You can use the landing light in lieu of a taxi light, just be careful and courteous to other aircraft with it's use.

 

[ARFlyer]

I also like to (re-)activate strobes when crossing runways (active or not) if runway crossings are required to get where you're going on the airport after landing.

Just one more chance not to be landed on and squashed like a bug.

Otherwise, agreed -- off on the ground.

I got complemented a few weeks ago by TWR at KMLU for doing just that. Well is there anyway to show my CFI the error of his argument?

 

[TMetzinger]

Taxiing with strobe lights on is foolish and annoying. Use the taxi light as needed during taxi.

Strobe lights on as you take the runway for takeoff and turn them off leaving the runway after landing.

I agree with this when you have a beacon as well as strobes.

But it all you have for anticollision lights are strobes (as some aircraft do), does your advice change?

 

[RotorAndWing]

I agree with this when you have a beacon as well as strobes.

But it all you have for anticollision lights are strobes (as some aircraft do), does your advice change?

14 CFR 91.209 Aircraft lights.

No person may:
(a) During the period from sunset to sunrise (or, in Alaska, during the period a prominent unlighted object cannot be seen from a distance of 3 statute miles or the sun is more than 6 degrees below the horizon)—
(1) Operate an aircraft unless it has lighted position lights;
(2) Park or move an aircraft in, or in dangerous proximity to, a night flight operations area of an airport unless the aircraft—
(i) Is clearly illuminated;
(ii) Has lighted position lights; or
(iii) is in an area that is marked by obstruction lights;
(3) Anchor an aircraft unless the aircraft—
(i) Has lighted anchor lights; or
(ii) Is in an area where anchor lights are not required on vessels; or
(b) Operate an aircraft that is equipped with an anticollision light system, unless it has lighted anticollision lights. However, the anticollision lights need not be lighted when the pilot-in-command determines that, because of operating conditions, it would be in the interest of safety to turn the lights off.

 

[denverpilot]

One of the FARs that actually makes sense and covers it all.

 

[PilotAlan]

I agree with this when you have a beacon as well as strobes.

But it all you have for anticollision lights are strobes (as some aircraft do), does your advice change?

My plane has only strobes.
If there's other planes in the vicinity, I turn of them off and only use the nav lights. If not, I keep them on so the ground controller or (if at pilot-controlled airport) anyone in the pattern can see me.

When landing, strobes on until off the runway and across the taxiway (unless there are other aircraft in proximity and I am sure they have me in sight).

 

[CMTowner]

I was renting a plane a few years back that had the beacon strobe wired to the same switch as the wing strobes. It was annoying at night to not be able to operate the beacon without the wing strobes.

I agree though, minimal lighting to taxi around the airport, but to use maximum lighting to cross or be on runways.

 

[denverpilot]

I do get a kick out of "in dangerous proximity to" in that reg though.

What's "dangerous proximity"? Haha.

Sounds like the name of a Hollywood thriller in the style of "Fatal Attraction".

Where's Stan Stemper? I think we just found the name for his next novel.

 

[TMetzinger]

14 CFR 91.209 Aircraft lights.

No person may:
(a) During the period from sunset to sunrise (or, in Alaska, during the period a prominent unlighted object cannot be seen from a distance of 3 statute miles or the sun is more than 6 degrees below the horizon)—
(1) Operate an aircraft unless it has lighted position lights;
(2) Park or move an aircraft in, or in dangerous proximity to, a night flight operations area of an airport unless the aircraft—
(i) Is clearly illuminated;
(ii) Has lighted position lights; or
(iii) is in an area that is marked by obstruction lights;
(3) Anchor an aircraft unless the aircraft—
(i) Has lighted anchor lights; or
(ii) Is in an area where anchor lights are not required on vessels; or
(b) Operate an aircraft that is equipped with an anticollision light system, unless it has lighted anticollision lights. However, the anticollision lights need not be lighted when the pilot-in-command determines that, because of operating conditions, it would be in the interest of safety to turn the lights off.

Yeah, I tried making that argument to a CFI once, and he made me put the strobes on. Once he got out of the plane, I went back to my normal way, which is to leave them off from the time I pull off the runway to the time I take the next runway.

 

[denverpilot]

Fourth or fifth thread this WEEK about CFIs making stuff up. Kinda sad, really.

 

[ChrisK]

The FAA WINGS approved course over at air safety institute on "Runway Safety" has a nice section on this iirc. It would be good fodder for your CFI!

 

[flyingmoose]

Yup, I leave them off until taking the runway and back off one exiting the runway. Big pet peeve of mine is sitting in line to take off with somebody blaring there strobes into your window. If its your only anti-collision then that is a different story. I think your right. Depending on your checklist it probably says "Before takeoff check" Lights.....As Req.

 

[poadeleted20]

If its your only anti-collision then that is a different story. I think your right.

I don't care if it's your only anti-collision lighting system. Anyone who can't see another airplane with its nav lights on far enough away on the ground at night to avoid hitting it at taxi speed has vision problems that strobes won't solve.

 

[N2124v]

Ron, there you go assuming they have their heads up and looking out!

 

[Henning]

The only lights I don't use on the ground are the strobes.

 

[wabower]

A noticeable difference between the typical single-engine airplanes and their slightly larger turbine/jet counterparts is the inclusion of a "line-up" tab in the check list. This short list includes the things that a pilot might want to be sure are turned on for takeoff, but might not want while sitting on the taxiway awaiting his turn.

The list is often shortened to a verbal "Lights, Camera(s), Action" when crossing the hold-short line, and is typically comprised of:

Lights. Strobes, Recogs, Auto-ignition, Pulsers, Spotlight on vertical tail

Camera(s): Transponder, Radar, XM Weather

Action: Taxi across the hold-short line only after other checks are complete. Time hack.

Killers: Typically flap and trim settings. A somewhat-common mis-trim problem in light airplanes is caused when the pilot actuates the autopilot for the preflight check, or perhaps inadvertently, without holding the yoke and the electric trim runs to the limit of travel.

Most (I think all but haven't seen every version) of the older manufacturers' checklists did not include the separate tab. For all the reasons discussed in this thread, I add it to every airplane that I fly on a regular basis and highly recommend it.

 

[flyingron]

XM Weather? Mine is operation as soon as the avionics bus comes on after engine start. You wouldn't want to delay it receiving data until you're on the roll for takeoff.

 

[flyingmoose]

I don't care if it's your only anti-collision lighting system. Anyone who can't see another airplane with its nav lights on far enough away on the ground at night to avoid hitting it at taxi speed has vision problems that strobes won't solve.

Im sure you misunderstood my post, but thats ok

 

[Dr. O]

Apparently lights at night are bad...
I have a question... Does the group think it would be ok if I used a tiny little flashlight to see the instrument panel in my otherwise perfectly blacked out airplane - or is this also not PC?
Maybe I could get a man to walk ahead of me waving a kerosene lantern to avoid frightening the other pilots or any horses that happen to be pulling airplanes out to the runway...

denny-o

 

[flyingmoose]

Apparently lights at night are bad...
I have a question... Does the group think it would be ok if I used a tiny little flashlight to see the instrument panel in my otherwise perfectly blacked out airplane - or is this also not PC?
Maybe I could get a man to walk ahead of me waving a kerosene lantern to avoid frightening the other pilots or any horses that happen to be pulling airplanes out to the runway...

denny-o

I don't recall anyone in this post saying that lights are bad. Just a difference of thinking with using strobes on the ground. But with that said, Yes I do think you could get a man with a lantern if you wanted it.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

14 CFR 91.209 Aircraft lights.

No person may:
(b) Operate an aircraft that is equipped with an anticollision light system, unless it has lighted anticollision lights. However, the anticollision lights need not be lighted when the pilot-in-command determines that, because of operating conditions, it would be in the interest of safety to turn the lights off.

Bingo.

The DA40 is one of the planes that has no rotating beacon and uses the strobes as its "anticollision" lighting system. I will usually turn the strobes on for a few seconds while starting the plane (which is generally far away from the ground crew, and blocked from the tower and any planes on final to the nearby runways by hangars) and as soon as the engine is fired up and I've checked oil pressure, the position lights and taxi lights come on, and the strobe lights go off until I cross the hold short line.

I wish our primary aircraft had taxi lights.

Most aircraft that don't have taxi lights also have landing lights that aren't particularly bright, IME - If you have no taxi light, use the landing light for taxiing! Too much stuff that you can run into otherwise, and prop strikes are expensive.

 

[gkainz]

Our Dakota is similar - strobes and landing light only; no rotating beacon, no taxi light.

 

[Jaybird180]

On our airplane the strobes will remind you to turn them off while on the ground. That flash in your periphery is very annoying.

Do you guys operate taxi and landing lights during the day? What about strobes? Position lights?

I prefer all 3, even during the day but I'm open to change....errr all 4

 

[TMetzinger]

I operate taxi light as I'm departing arriving the airport or other "busy" airspace. I leave the landing light off as I don't want to burn it out and then have the airplane grounded for night work.

LED lights? They would go on and stay on.

 

[Ghery]

On our airplane the strobes will remind you to turn them off while on the ground. That flash in your periphery is very annoying.

Do you guys operate taxi and landing lights during the day? What about strobes? Position lights?

I prefer all 3, even during the day but I'm open to change....errr all 4

In flight I have everything turned on. I want to be seen as easily as possible.

On the ground the strobes come on when taking the runway and go off when leaving the runway.

What I really like are the way some aircraft have alternating lights when airborne. Left, right, left, right... Really jumps out at you.

 

[straightwingedjetsrule]

From AC 91-73A. Emphasis mine.

10. USE OF EXTERIOR AIRCRAFT LIGHTS TO MAKE AIRCRAFT MORE CONSPICUOUS.
a. General.
(1) Exterior aircraft lights may be used to make an aircraft operating on the airport surface more conspicuous. Pilots may use various combinations of exterior lights to convey their location and intent to other pilots. Certain exterior lights may also be used in various combinations to signal whether the aircraft is on a taxiway or on a runway, in position on the runway but holding for takeoff clearance, crossing an active runway, or moving down the runway for takeoff.
(2) Because adherence to the guidelines in this AC are voluntary and aircraft equipment varies, pilots are cautioned not to rely solely on the status of an aircraft’s lights to determine the intentions of the pilot(s) of the other aircraft. Additionally, pilots must remember to comply with operating limitations on the aircraft’s lighting systems.
b. Exterior Lights. To the extent possible and consistent with aircraft equipage, operating limitations, and pilot procedures, pilots should illuminate exterior lights as follows:
(1) Engines Running. Turn on the rotating beacon whenever an engine is running.
(2) Taxiing. Prior to commencing taxi, turn on navigation, position, anti-collision,
and logo lights, if available. To signal intent to other pilots, consider turning on the taxi light when the aircraft is moving or intending to move on the ground, and turning it off when stopped, yielding, or as a consideration to other pilots or ground personnel. Strobe lights should not be illuminated during taxi if they will adversely affect the vision of other pilots or ground personnel.
(3) Crossing a Runway. All exterior lights should be illuminated when crossing a runway.
CAUTION: Pilots should consider any adverse effects to safety that illuminating the forward facing lights will have on the vision of other pilots or ground personnel during runway crossings.
(4) Entering the Departure Runway for Takeoff. When entering a runway after being cleared for takeoff, or when taxiing into position and hold, pilots should make their aircraft more conspicuous to aircraft on final behind them and to ATC by turning on lights (except landing lights) that highlight the aircraft’s silhouette. Strobe lights should not be illuminated if they will adversely affect the vision of other pilots.
NOTE: The SOP of turning on landing lights when takeoff clearance is received is a signal to other pilots, ATC, and ground personnel that the aircraft is moving down the runway for takeoff.
Page 12 Par 10
9/26/03 AC 91-73A
(5) Takeoff. Landing lights should be turned on when takeoff clearance is received, or when commencing takeoff roll at an airport without an operating control tower.

 

[Anthony]

The only lights I don't use on the ground are the strobes.

Me too. My rotating beacon is on as always, so is my landing light, and Nav lights. Strobes go on when I depart.

 

[PilotAlan]

LED lights? They would go on and stay on.

Yep. Since I got an LED landing light, it's on from engine start to engine stop (daytime). Strobes on from takeoff to clear of the runway (unless required on the ground).

Day or night, strobes typically on when taxiing in the hangar area (cars, pedestrians, etc), off when out onto clear taxiway. I have gotten scared at night by cars that didn't expect a plane there, the strobes reflect and is an "around the corner" warning that there is a plane and spinning prop just around the bend.